FPS is not the same as "shooter."

[Rock Beefchest]

Halo-fan correct me if I am mistaken but to clarify your position you are not claiming that the label "shooter" does not fit a FPS or any of the game sub genres you describe. More so the point of your argument is that by attaching this general label you are doing the individual nuance of the games a disservice. Said disservice could theoretically result in the generalization of the sub-genres to a point that the games themselves are effected. The effect could be that the games lose their nuance and become less of sub-genre and more genre, thereby losing what made them special. (I would like to point out that I disagree with your position that this will occur mind you but I hope to clarify your argument).

Sort of like situations where the standard labels placed upon products can damage the brands that used to have that label. The primary example is the use of Kleenex as a general term for tissue damages the brand Kleenex (again in theory) in that now people refer to the brand name when describing any tissue. (some could argue that Kleenex actually benefits from this by instant brand recognition).

Off topic. I too take issue at peoples quick branding of many honest threads as trolling. Give people a chance to determine if there is value to the discussion. Halo-fan originally used some "trollesque" wording in his topic and post, but that has been acknowledged and corrected. I see nothing wrong with this thread and find it to be a interesting argument.

 

[freedomweasel]

Isn't a shooter a shooter no matter the genre? SUB or not? I mean.. call me an ignorant ***** if you will, but it still has SHOOTER in its name.. are you all that anal about it? Geez.. And for the record: I didn't even know that there was a different genre of shooters isn't it about having fun and not about what shooter is better? Thats why I enjoyed fallout so much, you can pratically shoot anyone (excluding the kids, though let me tell you if they would let me I would have lighten Little Lamplight up like the fucking 4th of July) And yes.. you may have consequences in the end, but its still fun right?

I believe his point is that he believes the word 'shooters' is too often used to describe only a specific subgenre.

I'm not sure what the second bit has to do with the discussion at all. I don't think anyone is saying that any genre is better than another.

 

[Cypher10110]

I realize our genre naming conventions in games are pretty horrible such as JRPGs and even most CRPGs in general not even resembeling actual RPGs but I think video game lingo has gotten even more messed up by the ambiguous term "shooter."Unless you are a new to gaming you probably know that there are multiple genres this term could apply to:

Hori and vert SHMUPs
Gun Shooting
Rail Shooter
Run n Gun
Topdown Shooter
FPS
TPS
VS shooting

Do you really want a term that can be used to describe everything from Starfox to DooM to Muchi Muchi Pork? Stick to correct terminology if you don't want to look inexperienced.

Edit: I forgot VS shooter despite the fact that I've been playing Senko no Ronde lately. I suck cocks.

Edit #2:

FPS games are, in fact, "shooters."

Saint Bernanrds are dogs.
So are labs, collies, pugs, and dachsunds.
Referring to any of them as "dog" is perfectly fine. It's just not specific.

It's one thing to unify terminology, and it's another thing to ignore the convenience and utility of "general headings" that can include more than one specific subgenre.

I acknowledge this. The problem is that the term "shooter" is treated as synonymous with FPS.

If you are fixated on the word you use to describe it, rather than the subject that is being described, you're kinda getting lost in the details. ( I noticed you've made yourself a list of categories so you can shoebox all the games you play - may I ask why? )
If "shooter" gets the point across, then use it, if it doesn't, ELABORATE. Seems simple to me.

TLDR; Who cares?

 

[S_K]

Thread title is correct, it's the same with other game genres too the best example I can think of is the difference between beat em ups (you and possibly some friends vs a horde of enemies) and fighting games (1 v 1 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 etc fights)

 

[TheComedown]

^ I doubt you actually would claim to like so many genres but regardless if you told him that you like shooters without liking SHMUPs you would be lying. If someone doesn't understand something in a conversation then you can just explain it to them you don't have to dumb down the conversation.

Thats not always possible, Look above, Bills dinner got burnt cause he had to explain it all to silly Ted. Who we all know wasn't really that interested, and would have been more then happy with the answer "shooters"

And still what the fuck is a SHUMP? It sounds like the name for something thats going on in my stomach when I'm sick.

It's not dumbing down the conversation, to say shooters streamlines the conversation. Especially if your talking to someone who couldn't give a shit about games and was just being polite, you're going to bore them to shit.

By your logic, we shouldn't say "I need a drink" we couldn't say "I like cake" It's to general, Its not specific enough for you. If you needed a drink you would have to say "I need a mocha triple latte" or some shit, and its not enough to like cake, every time you have to list "Like tripple choc mud cake, cheese cake, banana cake, white choc mud cake, carrot cake, wedding cake, choc wedding cake, marble cake etc etc."

Now shoo shoo, back under your bridge.

 

[SilverUchiha]

Technically, isn't FPS just a sub-group of Shooters anyway? you know, like Third-Person Shooters and rail shooters? If Birds, for example, can still be accurately called dinosaurs due to that relationship, FPS games can be called Shooters for the same reason (yes, I know my example is a bit strange, but it is pretty much the same scenario).

Also, how the fuck does a post like this get 4 pages of comments when everything I posts barely gets one. I don't even get how this is really a meaningful conversation. All we're doing is saying you're wrong.

 

[archvile93]

^ I doubt you actually would claim to like so many genres but regardless if you told him that you like shooters without liking SHMUPs you would be lying. If someone doesn't understand something in a conversation then you can just explain it to them you don't have to dumb down the conversation.

That's a great idea. That way the conversation can be hours longer than it needs to be as I explain the definations of every single sub-genre in the genres I enjoy, and yes, you will have all those sub-genres he explained because if you like the genre in general, odds are you like all the sub-genres. And why do you need a distinction for online focused games? Do you really need to be that specific? But hey, while were making such big big deal out of specification, why don't we take it a bit farther? For example, from now on CoD and MoH are in different sub-genres MoH is an American shooter with multiplayer because in single player, you always play as an American and it has multiplayer, while CoD is an international FPS with Multiplayer since you play as many different nationalities, and it has multiplayer. Oh and Duke Nukem Forever, action hero parody comedy first person shooter. Can't have people not realizing it has comedy in it when I explain how it plays right? Oh yeah, and it will probably have multiplayer so you better put that at the end too. Just think, some day genres will be so specific, every game will be in its own one. And by the way, Shooter works fine for games that mainly involve shooting because they involve shooting for the most part. In all seriousness I usually say FPS or TPS when describing them because I prefer to be somewhat more specific, but I'm not going to go out of my way to tell other people how they should say things as long as their listeners know what they're talking about and you know why? because it would make me look like a pretentious asshole, just like it does for you. Not everyone speaks the same way you do, nor should they have to, deal with it.

 

[Halo Fanboy]

You stick to respectful language if you don't want to look like a jerk.

Sorry i could not help myself, hypocritical statement is hypocritical.

Fair enough, but to me, those who don't give first, don't receive later.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

The thing is, most people understand what is implied by "shooter".

When I say shooter, only five people on this site think of Ikaruga.

Six. Shooter is a pretty all encompsing term, people forget that in the 16 bit era shooter really did usually mean a space shoot'em up. Bullet hell is just a continuation of that.

See, someone else who gets it. The problem with this thread isn't that the OP is wrong, it's that the terminology has changed over the last decade. Around 2002 or 2003, I remember experiencing the same annoyance that the OP is over people calling FPSs Shooters, and the rebranding of what I knew to be shooters as Shootemups, or Shmups as they eventually came to be known. The problem here is that the term was never really a general term, it was actually fairly specific in daily use, and somehow the specific genre that "shooter" referred to switched from Shmups to FPSs, seemingly overnight. This really annoyed me as a middle schooler, but I'm in college now. Does it still bug me sometimes? Yes, but it's time to accept the fact that the language shifted in the last decade, and the older meaning of "shooter" has been effectively replaced.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Sorry what? Why cant I be unspecific? People ask me what type of music I like, I say metal or hardcore, I'm not going to list out things like grindcore/metalcore/deathcore etc etc, most people would look at me funny and say "what?" Most people dont know that shit, nor really want to know. How is that being anti-intellectual? that statement in itself is so mind numbingly stupid I dont really know what else to say.

Don't know music so I can't fully understand the comparison but as a general rule, if you want someone to understand you then you want to be as specific as possible. You can talk about what bands you like or something. Overly general conversation is shallow chatter.

Doesn't work that way. If I said I like Waking The Cadaver, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Wovenhand, Them Crooked Vultures, Engel and Gardenian, would you be able to define my music taste?

FPS is a form of shooter, that simple. Gears of War should be able to be defined as a shooter, instead of having to say "third-person shooter" every time. A rail-shooter is still a shooter as well. If I want to recommend a game, I'll use the words FPS and rail-shooter, but if I'm just having a general discussion on what I like. Why must we focus so damn much on semantics?

 

[Halo Fanboy]

^ I doubt you actually would claim to like so many genres but regardless if you told him that you like shooters without liking SHMUPs you would be lying. If someone doesn't understand something in a conversation then you can just explain it to them you don't have to dumb down the conversation.

That's a great idea. That way the conversation can be hours longer than it needs to be as I explain the definations of every single sub-genre in the genres I enjoy, and yes, you will have all those sub-genres he explained because if you like the genre in general, odds are you like all the sub-genres. And why do you need a distinction for online focused games? Do you really need to be that specific? But hey, while were making such big big deal out of specification, why don't we take it a bit farther? For example, from now on CoD and MoH are in different sub-genres MoH is an American shooter with multiplayer because in single player, you always play as an American and it has multiplayer, while CoD is an international FPS with Multiplayer since you play as many different nationalities, and it has multiplayer. Oh and Duke Nukem Forever, action hero parody comedy first person shooter. Can't have people not realizing it has comedy in it when I explain how it plays right? Oh yeah, and it will probably have multiplayer so you better put that at the end too. Just think, some day genres will be so specific, every game will be in its own one. And by the way, Shooter works fine for games that mainly involve shooting because they involve shooting for the most part. In all seriousness I usually say FPS or TPS when describing them because I prefer to be somewhat more specific, but I'm not going to go out of my way to tell other people how they should say things as long as their listeners know what they're talking about and you know why? because it would make me look like a pretentious asshole, just like it does for you. Not everyone speaks the same way you do, nor should they have to, deal with it.

Yeah right. Do you honestly think that everyone or even most people who like FPSs also like gun shooting, SHMUPs and Senko no Ronde just as much? The genres I have outlined are defined by their mechanics which are all noticably different. Your hypothetical examples don't have enough mechanical differentation to be important.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

So "FPS" belongs to the category "Shooter", but you can't call it a Shooter?

That means that a Pistol is a Gun, but you can't call it a Gun

OP, your logic isn't logical

According to a Drill Sergeant I met years ago, a pistol is a weapon. Artillery is a gun. A machine gun is a gun. A rifle? Also a weapon.

He then quoted a certain Kubrick movie.

 

[shadow skill]

What the OP is talking about here is the over use of a general term to describe a specific subtype. The statement "Call of Duty is a shooter." tells us nothing about what Call of Duty actually is other than the fact that you shoot stuff. It is about as useful as "I feel an emotion." Neither tells us the kind of thing, and in the case of games can lead to silly debates about what constitutes a given genre like RPG. This particular label is so general that it encompasses almost every videogame that has ever or will ever exist.

What the OP is touching on here is actually a very important thing to consider with any language in all contexts. Take the word freedom for example, it's definition has become so nebulous that it is now a "Glittering Generality." Most people don't seem to realize that if people actually had "freedom" their neighbor could come and just take their stuff. Since they can't because of things like laws, people cannot be said to posses "freedom" (Though the term we usually use is "absolute freedom." The only problem with that is that it implies "limited freedom" which is an oxymoron.) nor can they be said in general to actually want "freedom."


Lastly some of these posts in this thread hurling accusations of trolling are very sad. I think it says more about those of you doing the accusing than it does about the OP since you were all seemingly unable to evaluate the topic for its content and instead had to reduce the subject matter to one word.

 

[ThePinkAcidSmurf]

I refuse to follow arbitrarily made namingconventions for the sake of a few people who might get their panties in a twist because their favorite game is being "mistreated" by not being described by the specific "correct" term.

I grew up with Doom and Wolfenstein being shooters. They are shooters, just as they're games. I don't care if you call it FPS, shooters, shotemups, games or what ever you feel is the right thing to call them. Just don't tell me that I can't call them something they are anyway.

Other than that, have a nice day to you all.

 

[captaincabbage]

Despite myself I feel a little hurt by people thinking I'm trolling. I was trying to help people understand genres and why making FPS synonymous with shooters is foolish. If didn't use insults would I have been more well recieved? I've taken some of my writing style from insult heavy critisism that I enjoy reading but I'll try to tone it down in the future.

Who cares, there are two types of shooters:

Tactical ones - by extension competitive ones (CoD 4 on Hardcore for example)

Arcade Shooters - everything from pie tossing to Halo to Timeshit to Haze and all those railshooters. You know, games that are more lightfooted with no sort of real competition tied to them.

No arcade shooters are from actual arcades not defined by the nonsense dichotomy you've invented.

OT: As far as I'm concerned, 'Shooter' is just an apt description for an FPS as any other game where you hold down buttons until someone dies.

That definition is so shallow it's not even superficial. So free aiming, movement, inventory management and other mecahnics are meaningless?

Anyway an RPG is a game where you control the story. Most Computer RPGs are very shallow.

Well boo fucking hoo, it may be shallow, but it's accurate. Besides, cover mechanics, regenrating health and rocket jumping doesn't make a game a shooter. You know what does? the fucking shooting. By definition those other mechanics are meaningless, because you could have them in a multitude of other game which aren't shooters.

Your defenition of RPGs basically cuts the range down to games like the old Fallout games and a few others. You don't think that is shallow?
IMO an RPG is a game where you take control of a character, either one you create or one that's handed to you and you experience a story, not just decide where it's going to go.

 

[TheComedown]

Despite myself I feel a little hurt by people thinking I'm trolling. I was trying to help people understand genres and why making FPS synonymous with shooters is foolish. If didn't use insults would I have been more well recieved? I've taken some of my writing style from insult heavy critisism that I enjoy reading but I'll try to tone it down in the future.

Maybe the fact that almost everybody thinks you're trolling should help you understand how stupid what you're saying is. Calling everybody numbnuts sure as hell doesn't help do anything other then make you look the fool.

Why is it so wrong to say shooters?
If someone asks me what games I like I WILL say shooters, you aint gonna change that, and it sure as hell ain't ignorance, because for the most part, the average person that would ask that question probably a)doesn't really give a shit and is just being polite, b) wouldn't know the difference between a Rail shooter and a gun shooter, (really I don't even know the difference, hell I'd never even heard of a gun shooter before, I thought it was a given if you where playing a shooter for the most part you were already shooting guns.)

If they then ask, "cool, what kind of shooters do you like"
THEN and ONLY THEN would it make sense/be alright to go into more detail.

It's not ignorance, its fucking social skills.