Fridge Logic

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Someone helped me, I looked at TV tropes for the first time in Years and I can not get out again...

But Fridge Logic is always something that has intrigued me. People spend time to come up with great works of Media and then they just... Drop the ball so hard that once you realize it you just can't stand it.

Understand, Fridge Logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] is different than Plot Holes that Plot Holes has something to do with the plot. "How did X Know about that conversation when they weren't even in the same city and just came in now" is an example of a plot hole. Fridge Logic is more immersion breaking.

This bit of Fridge Logic has bothered me for so long, but no one wants to talk to me about it... any more.. So, Hi Internet!

This is the RZ-1 A-wing interceptor [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/RZ-1_A-wing_interceptor].

This is theA T-65B X-wing starfighter [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/X-wing_starfighter]

This is theThe Y wing Starfighter [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BTL_Y-wing_starfighter/Canon]

This is Galactic Basic Alphabet.

Spoiler

And I know this is solidifying me as "that" kind of geek but really... someone explain. IN CANON TERMS. I know it's not real and that in the originals they had english in the movies, but then WHY MAKE GALACTIC BASIC?! Your starships don't make any more sense, Lucas! Why are you like this?!

Phew. Geek Rage is a potent thing. Anyway, share your Fridge Logic.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

And I know this is solidifying me as "that" kind of geek but really... someone explain. IN CANON TERMS. I know it's not real and that in the originals they had english in the movies, but then WHY MAKE GALACTIC BASIC?! Your starships don't make any more sense, Lucas! Why are you like this?!

Phew. Geek Rage is a potent thing. Anyway, share your Fridge Logic.

Aurebesh was Expanded Universe material, hence it is now Legends status (at least the alphabet in the form you posted, as Aurebesh is still seen in TFA). The first "letters" were seen in ROTJ on a computer screen and those were expanded upon when West End Games did their Star Wars miniature game in the mid-90's. So the simple case here is, as so often with the Star Wars EU, that the EU did something that wasn't entirely thought trough and caused leaps in logic. And yes, I am not a big fan of the EU.

 

[Catnip1024]

Well, clearly you just have to assume that the names of the craft have been translated into a language you can understand. You have no issues assuming the language itself is translated, so it's not much of a stretch.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

...

*squint*

I can see it.

Like, baring the actual laser cannons, the ships share some of the basic shapes. Follow the colored bit on the A-Wing strapped to the engines.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I assume the names of the ships were thought up before any of that with the Galactic Basic language was established and no explanation was given why these ships have those names despite existing in a Universe where the letters 'A,' 'X' and 'Y' don't exist.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

The B-Wing still makes no sense in either alphabet. Just call it the T-Wing for gods' sake!

 

[FalloutJack]

Fridge Logic.

"What in god's name am I? I have two mouths and two stomachs, but I'm fed power directly into my ass and I don't digest a thing. In fact, it often all goes bad for a while and I have to have someone else enable the vomit reflex. Someone kill me now!"

Why refrigerators break down easily.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Never heard of fridge logic till now. I thought it might have been something about the cheese disappearing way faster than you think you're eating it. But seeing as it appears not; mayhaps these IPs have had far less thought put into their writing and consistency than you're giving them credit. Setting up for disappointment and frustration that way. I appreciate that they got their own little alphabet going on there though, rather endearing effort.

 

[Scarim Coral]

This topic remind me of this sketch.

OT- Ok while I can understand this plothole but the alphabeths aren't exactly been seen in the films per say. I don't recalled OBi reading their universe version of a newspaper or something or when Palpatine became the pernament ruler, there was no lived broadcast.
Ok maybe it was but it was not the focus of the film.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Sudden observation..

Why does the X wing (and the B wing) have air intakes? I know they can fly in atmosphere, but they're routinely shown flying in space.

 

[twistedmic]

Sudden observation..

Why does the X wing (and the B wing) have air intakes? I know they can fly in atmosphere, but they're routinely shown flying in space.

They have air intakes because they are designed to be able to fly in space and in atmosphere, simple as that. Just because we rarely see them fly in atmosphere doesn't mean that they can't fly in atmosphere.

 

[Dalisclock]

Sudden observation..

Why does the X wing (and the B wing) have air intakes? I know they can fly in atmosphere, but they're routinely shown flying in space.

They have air intakes because they are designed to be able to fly in space and in atmosphere, simple as that. Just because we rarely see them fly in atmosphere doesn't mean that they can't fly in atmosphere.

Star Wars Physics is pretty loose to begin with. Spacecraft act either like naval vessals or fighter aircraft depending on size, despite the fact space works like neither air or water. Tie fighters shouldn't be able to fly in an atmosphere at all. Star Destoryers shouldn't be able to orbit a plant a mile above the ground.

The movies depict all of these things and doesn't really care if they make sense, because they look cool.

Partially because, from the beginning, Star War borrows liberaly(if not directly ripping off) WW2 films.

Seriously, watch Star Wars: A New Hope and then watch The Dam Busters. It's really obvious Lucas based the entire Death Star attack with on the Bombing run in the Dam Busters.

 

[Terminal Blue]

They have air intakes because they are designed to be able to fly in space and in atmosphere, simple as that. Just because we rarely see them fly in atmosphere doesn't mean that they can't fly in atmosphere.

Sure, but what do the air intakes do.

Like, jet engines have air intakes because they use the oxygen in the air for combustion, but these spacecraft presumably don't have jet engines. The most likely option is that they're cooling vents, but then, that makes only slightly more sense because they won't work in space flight (there's nothing to pass through the vents) whereas external radiators would work in both atmospheric and space flight, making them the clearly superior option if cooling is an issue.

Dalisclock has it, I think, it's quite clearly because starfighters in star wars behave like aircraft and therefore it makes sense visually that they (some of them anyway) are designed to look like aircraft, it just makes no sense in terms of actual physics when you think about it.

 

[gigastar]

Wasnt the alphabet introduced years after the X-, Y-, A- and B-Wings were all introduced in the original films?

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Sure, but what do the air intakes do.

Like, jet engines have air intakes because they use the oxygen in the air for combustion, but these spacecraft presumably don't have jet engines. The most likely option is that they're cooling vents, but then, that makes only slightly more sense because they won't work in space flight (there's nothing to pass through the vents) whereas external radiators would work in both atmospheric and space flight, making them the clearly superior option if cooling is an issue.

Dalisclock has it, I think, it's quite clearly because starfighters in star wars behave like aircraft and therefore it makes sense visually that they (some of them anyway) are designed to look like aircraft, it just makes no sense in terms of actual physics when you think about it.

Right, but I am only aware of a handful of sci-fi shows/stories that actually takes into account things like space is quiet. In fact, the first time I saw Planetes, I thought my speakers were broken when they did some shots of craft docking with a space station when as if viewed from outside the spacecraft and space station. The sound snapping back when you have some perspective of atmosphere between two characters. It's almost as if the immersion is broken precisely because they're trying to maintain the immersion.

That being said, I appreciated the Planetes anime. Because it did go even furtherand harder to sell the idea of how hostile, how alien, how hard it is if we want to maintain a large, permanent presence of humanity off world.

Even had episodes about low gravity and physiological defects, the dangers of possible irradiation, the dangers of growing space garbage, astronaut nappies, the likelihood of how the resources of space will be monopolized by the wealthiest nations and made artificially scarce to all those nations thatcan't afford to run a space program ...

 

[Terminal Blue]

It's almost as if the immersion is broken precisely because they're trying to maintain the immersion.

Indeed, I've argued this myself in other cases. Space is weird, it doesn't obey a bunch of the rules which apply to all the objects around us and which we're familiar with and thus, even when it's depicted accurately, the result can seem strange or unreal exactly because space really is so weird to our own experience. Used correctly, this can be very effective and reinforce the alien nature of the environment. Used dogmatically, it can as you say actually be immersion breaking.

This does apply in design terms, too, I guess, in the form of skeuomorphism. Digital cameras have speakers which play a pre-recorded shutter sound even if they have no mechanical shutter, because people associate a shutter sound with cameras. Likewise, even though the X-wing isn't a plane it looks and flies like a plane (which is also unrealistic) and on real planes air intakes are very important so it's easy to just accept them as part of the design.

If we were to approach the task of designing a "space fighter" realistically, it would probably end up looking nothing like we'd expect. It would have no wings, it would probably be covered in engine nozzles and may well have no "front" or "back". In fact, it would likely not be designed for a human pilot at all. It's certainly not going to be visually recognisable as a space fighter in the way the X-wing immediately is.

 

[Saelune]

I hate how every space thing ever never has two ships come at eachother at completely different angles. Up and down in space is relative, and generally, presumably, any ship that lets you walk around by this time has artificial gravity.

And yet every ship operates on the same plane with the same up and down.

Atleast acknowledge it by having some sort of set 'up and down' based on where they are from. Like a sort of international language of up and down, thus perhaps people from other cultures have different base up and downs, and maybe people off the grid dont abide by any of them?

At best there is the Borg who acknowledge that it doesnt really matter, and thus have no real front or back and just fly in geometric shapes.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

I hate how every space thing ever never has two ships come at eachother at completely different angles. Up and down in space is relative, and generally, presumably, any ship that lets you walk around by this time has artificial gravity.

And yet every ship operates on the same plane with the same up and down.

Atleast acknowledge it by having some sort of set 'up and down' based on where they are from. Like a sort of international language of up and down, thus perhaps people from other cultures have different base up and downs, and maybe people off the grid dont abide by any of them?

At best there is the Borg who acknowledge that it doesnt really matter, and thus have no real front or back and just fly in geometric shapes.

Actually there is a general consensus that, should we ever become a space faring society, or encounter alien life that we can communicate with, that some system of standardized spacial navigation would have to be implemented, with cardinal points such as spinward, rimward, coreward and reverse-spinward as basic tenets. You then apply a z-axis to this using something like the right hand rule to determine an appropriate "up" and "down" (which then lets you use the same system to navigate inside any galaxy, not just your own).

The star wars galaxy, being as it is inhabited by countless thousands of space faring species and has been for many thousands of years, probably established some sort of system like this a long time ago. It would just be practical to do so.

But yes, when it comes to space combat there should still be ships flying about at all angles and from every direction really. They don't because it's too hard to present it in a visual medium and is hard for viewers to follow. Easier to do in books (40k novels often have ships taking hours to position themselves across thousands of miles of distance and flying in all sorts of patterns and positions relative to each other.)

 

[Signa]

The B-Wing still makes no sense in either alphabet. Just call it the T-Wing for gods' sake!

You never saw it from the top-down view then...

Spoiler

It's a really bad looking B, but so is the A for the A wings. The point is, it works, and you get to keep the themes of the fighters labeled on both ends of the alphabet.