Fridge Logic

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evilthecat said:
Indeed, I've argued this myself in other cases. Space is weird, it doesn't obey a bunch of the rules which apply to all the objects around us and which we're familiar with and thus, even when it's depicted accurately, the result can seem strange or unreal exactly because space really is so weird to our own experience. Used correctly, this can be very effective and reinforce the alien nature of the environment. Used dogmatically, it can as you say actually be immersion breaking.

This does apply in design terms, too, I guess, in the form of skeuomorphism. Digital cameras have speakers which play a pre-recorded shutter sound even if they have no mechanical shutter, because people associate a shutter sound with cameras. Likewise, even though the X-wing isn't a plane it looks and flies like a plane (which is also unrealistic) and on real planes air intakes are very important so it's easy to just accept them as part of the design.

If we were to approach the task of designing a "space fighter" realistically, it would probably end up looking nothing like we'd expect. It would have no wings, it would probably be covered in engine nozzles and may well have no "front" or "back". In fact, it would likely not be designed for a human pilot at all. It's certainly not going to be visually recognisable as a space fighter in the way the X-wing immediately is.
That and no cockpits with big windows. Lots of windows is just a design flaw waiting for a catastrophe. I think it depends on how fast these craft are actually moving and how safe it is for them to do so. Time lag is a thing, and I can't imagine humans could ever solve that idea of the time lag between transmissions. I think for high sensitivity and reactivity where you can't just send time delay/distance delay instructions ala programming robots with BASIC ala Microworlds, you're going to need an A.I. or human.

I mean, humans requires life support, and seats, and accessible controls, and so on.... so preferably A.I.?

They have droids in-universe, so why not use them?

But that being said, why would you be making space fighters ala basically 'fighter jet, but in space' to begin with? That seems like the biggest waste of time to me, personally. I can understand shuttle craft, but not X-Wings. Putting it bluntly, the X-Wings weren't even that great in the movies. I think they realized that ala the Prequel-Trilogy and made starfighters seem pointful ... but X-wing in the original trilogy is near useless. They need to fabricate what is a blatant design flaw just to give them a point to exist.

The other thing that breaks the immersion for me is specifically the fact that there are rebel specific spacecraft. Seems less 'rebel-y' and more warlord-y...? I mean if it gets to the point where you can just flat out build naval fleets not out of stolen ships or repurposed civilian vessels, but rather fund a completely new breed of arms industry that maintains both combat effectiveness and power parity that matches or exceeds the capabilities of an empire, it kind of sounds like you're also an empire.

That being as per the immersion thing .... I'm actually kind of glad it did so? Because the thing is I don't just want to watch something that immerses a person...

One of my favourite films of all time is The Life Aquatic, and that was postmodernism with obviously jarring moments that purposefully were there to remind you that you were watching a film, breaking the 4th Wall in a clever, fantastic, whimsical way.

That these were jarring mental moments where the fantastic uncomfortably make themselves known. Like panning over the different rooms of the Belfonte before zooming out with the actors performing their daily routines, or quizzically hanging out, or being your average neurotic human beings we all are on a weird arse job, realising full well; "Hold on a tick, this is a scene of a movie, portraying a scene of a documentary, that is obviously a longways cross-section of an impossible ship."

I think it's kind of awful that a movie tries intentionally to engross people rather than make them occasionally uncomfortable, or jolt them out of mindless consumption of the media.

It's very fey-like,and I adore that. The environment, the story, the characters, the drama ... which ultimately makes it more human and allows you to analyze the human relationship rather than simply be swallowed up in the story of which is incredibly simple but highly impractical. It's stylish, whimsical, strange, lacking substance, and that's what makes that fantastic unreality almost acceptable in its own way.

I like escapism and immersion as much as the next person, but I really don't think media should merely engross but rather confront our sense of reality in clever ways that force our brain to recognize we are watching a piece of fiction.

Planetes broke my sense of immersion in just the right ways, because the story does touch upon the loneliness of the character in so many ways. And the story itself is about humanity's intepid steps into the rest of the Solar system, and that ultimately for the people that need to be out there ... there is that sense of foreboding and being removed from everything that is normal, that is safe, that is comforting.
 

Kyrian007

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Well, as far as practical and realistic depiction... I've always thought that Starfury from Babylon 5 was fairly well done. But I'm not one to nitpick unimportant details, and I'm a fan of the A-Wing personally because in the X-Wing series I'm freaking untouchable in one.

But that's coming from someone who firmly believes there is no such thing as a "plot hole" in fiction. Because any such "plot hole" can be easily explained as "that's what happened in the universe that the author created, that's how it works there." Or the author can give the Xena explanation "any time you notice something like that... a wizard did it."
 

sageoftruth

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Basically how I feel every time someone translates an ancient forgotten language written on a tomb wall and it happens to rhyme.
 

Vanilla ISIS

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I've looked it up and the alphabet doesn't appear in any of the movies, just in the Expanded Universe stuff.
Apparently, Episode 8 will be the first movie to reference it.

to put it bluntly, the alphabet is fanfiction.
 

CaitSeith

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There is no canonical reason. The ships were named before anyone came up with an in-universe Basic alphabet.

Deal with it.
 

Dalisclock

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It's wierd. I've finally gotten around to watching the Clone Wars series and I keep wondering if it was ever explained why all the clones talk like Jango. I know they're all clones of him, but last I checked accents don't pass through genes. And Boba doesn't talk like that anyway(unless they retconed it for the next re-release of eps 3-6).

Was it ever explained in universe how that worked? Aside from, now they only need to hire one voice actor for all the clones?
 

maninahat

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evilthecat said:
twistedmic said:
They have air intakes because they are designed to be able to fly in space and in atmosphere, simple as that. Just because we rarely see them fly in atmosphere doesn't mean that they can't fly in atmosphere.
Sure, but what do the air intakes do.

Like, jet engines have air intakes because they use the oxygen in the air for combustion, but these spacecraft presumably don't have jet engines. The most likely option is that they're cooling vents, but then, that makes only slightly more sense because they won't work in space flight (there's nothing to pass through the vents) whereas external radiators would work in both atmospheric and space flight, making them the clearly superior option if cooling is an issue.

Dalisclock has it, I think, it's quite clearly because starfighters in star wars behave like aircraft and therefore it makes sense visually that they (some of them anyway) are designed to look like aircraft, it just makes no sense in terms of actual physics when you think about it.
To get into the nitty gritty, some conceptional engines such as SABRE [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_(rocket_engine)] are designed to alternate between atmospheric and space flight, switching between air intakes and internal liquid oxygen when necessary. Of course, there is nothing to say that conventional rocket or jet engines are the basis for Star Wars fighters. TIE fighters supposedly run on Ion engines, whose real life counterparts are terrible at providing things like the rapid acceleration required to be effective for dog fighting.
 

Catnip1024

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Oh, as an actual attempt at fridge logic:

In the Phantom Menace, they disable the droid army by destroying the command ship. Why would anybody design a droid army to only work online? Destruction of the command ship aside, your army would still be rendered useless by certain weather conditions or going underground.

Unless it was a games company, of course.

That might actually explain a lot.