Friends who like mediocre games

[ImBigBob]

I was on a road trip last weekend with a friend who's a casual gamer. Since he knew I liked games a lot, he mentioned he picked up the new Army of Two game. My response was along the lines of "What? Why?" I'll admit it was a kneejerk response and also not very nice, as I was basically insulting his taste in games. However, I tried to be understanding and try to understand why it was that the game appealed to him. He told me that he and a friend of his liked playing co-op shooters, and that AoT fits into that mold nicely.

Now, I can understand that reasoning to a certain extent. Back when the first Gears of War came out, a different friend and me played the game through multiple times, ultimately on the hardest difficulty setting, loving it the whole way through. When I got Gears 2, we played it through as well. Except this time it didn't feel as fresh, and we only finished it one time. I got Gears 3, and this time the experience was so boring and tiring to us that we didn't even bother with Judgement.

I explained that to my friend and asked why he could continue playing those games even though they were just the same thing, and at this point I got a response of "I don't have to justify myself to you." It's the same response I've gotten when I ask Twilight fangirls about why they like the movies. I don't want to force my opinions down his throat, but I do feel that he's limiting his experiences by only wanting to play a specific genre, and considering I'm one of those people who thinks that violence in games is getting disgusting, it's very difficult for me to consider his point of view. Personally, I've had tons of fun playing single-player games where we just pass the controller around, like Just Cause 2, Trials, or Driver: San Francisco. When I suggested he try that, he just dismissed me. We're still friends, but I doubt I could ever be frank with my gaming opinions around him, which is bad considering it's a huge hobby of mine.

What do you guys think?

 

[IllumInaTIma]

People will do whatever they feel they want to do. No justification needed. My friend wants to work in a gaming industry and he plays nothing but Dota 2 and the only reason he might consider buying a licensed copy of a game is that gaming having a multiplayer. Does it irritate me? Fuck yes! Do I believe he supports the worst kind of practices? Definitely. Is it my deal? Fuck no. He does what he does and I know that any attempt on my part to skew his preferences will result in opposite.

 

[krazykidd]

Here is the thing . The more games you play , and the more knowledgable you are , the less you are entertained/amazed by games . You said your friend is a casual gamer , i guess that in turn are a hardcore gamer . Now correct me if i'm wrong but i assume you have played many more games than he has . So you're standards are higher. You are "desensitized" in a sense .

It's kind of like , if two people went on a vacation to a certain location . And person A have never traveled before , while person B travel every couple of months . While they both enjoyed their trip , The vacation would be more awsome for person A.

 

[shrekfan246]

I explained that to my friend and asked why he could continue playing those games even though they were just the same thing, and at this point I got a response of "I don't have to justify myself to you." It's the same response I've gotten when I ask Twilight fangirls about why they like the movies. I don't want to force my opinions down his throat, but I do feel that he's limiting his experiences by only wanting to play a specific genre, and considering I'm one of those people who thinks that violence in games is getting disgusting, it's very difficult for me to consider his point of view.

What do you guys think?

I think you're being incredibly close-minded.

Why do you care if he only likes playing co-op shooters? Different people appreciate different things for different reasons. If the guy doesn't care about single-player, stories, or any of that crap, let him enjoy what he enjoys. To him, those games may not be "the same thing" over and over again.

Besides, I could say the same thing of Just Cause 2, or any racing game, or the vast number of RTS games, or countless Nintendo titles, or to people who replay games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, or platformers, etc. etc.

"Why do you continue to play Just Cause 2, all you're doing is flying around an island destroying identical strongholds and shooting military rebels?"

"Why do you like racing games so much? All you do is drive around predetermined tracks over and over again."

"Why do you play Starcraft/Diablo/DOTA so much, it's always the same thing every game?"

"Why do you always buy New Super Mario Bros. games, they're all basically the same with a new coat of paint and a few different powerups?"

"Why did you get Ocarina of Time on the 3DS, didn't you already play it on the Nintendo 64?"

"Why are you replaying Dragon Age: Origins for the tenth time, haven't you done everything by now?"

"Why do you always play the new Sonic games, they haven't been good since Adventure 2/Sonic 3/they all control the same now."

Blah blah blah.

It might be that your friend plays these titles so much because, despite what you might think of them, he finds them fun.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well this sort of situation is highly dependent on how strong that friendship is, I got a mate who is massively into CoD and one that is all about mobile games and I riff on them constantly for their poor taste, but then they do the same on me and we just have some beers and laugh it off.
I also don't mind sitting down with them for some stupid ass games as purely a social event, still doesn't mean I'll ever like or buy those games.

But there are others that I just know aren't comfortable with any sort of adversarial converse so with those I just keep it simple or stay off touchy subjects, otherwise every stray comment just makes the interaction more bitter and there were people that would just escalate it into a full blown fight over a silly difference in taste.

 

[ImBigBob]

I explained that to my friend and asked why he could continue playing those games even though they were just the same thing, and at this point I got a response of "I don't have to justify myself to you." It's the same response I've gotten when I ask Twilight fangirls about why they like the movies. I don't want to force my opinions down his throat, but I do feel that he's limiting his experiences by only wanting to play a specific genre, and considering I'm one of those people who thinks that violence in games is getting disgusting, it's very difficult for me to consider his point of view.

What do you guys think?

I think you're being incredibly close-minded.

Why do you care if he only likes playing co-op shooters? Different people appreciate different things for different reasons. If the guy doesn't care about single-player, stories, or any of that crap, let him enjoy what he enjoys. To him, those games may not be "the same thing" over and over again.

Besides, I could say the same thing of Just Cause 2, or any racing game, or the vast number of RTS games, or countless Nintendo titles, or to people who replay games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, or platformers, etc. etc.

"Why do you continue to play Just Cause 2, all you're doing is flying around an island destroying identical strongholds and shooting military rebels?"

"Why do you like racing games so much? All you do is drive around predetermined tracks over and over again."

"Why do you play Starcraft/Diablo/DOTA so much, it's always the same thing every game?"

"Why do you always buy New Super Mario Bros. games, they're all basically the same with a new coat of paint and a few different powerups?"

"Why did you get Ocarina of Time on the 3DS, didn't you already play it on the Nintendo 64?"

"Why are you replaying Dragon Age: Origins for the tenth time, haven't you done everything by now?"

"Why do you always play the new Sonic games, they haven't been good since Adventure 2/Sonic 3/they all control the same now."

Blah blah blah.

It might be that your friend plays these titles so much because, despite what you might think of them, he finds them fun.

I feel like "Why do you care?" means that I'm not allowed to ask. I care because I don't like seeing bad games get rewarded. Why make a game with a good story or unique game mechanics if you can just make another brown military shooter that'll sell? If all you want is a game with co-op, why buy a new one instead of replaying Gears of War if it's going to be a similar experience? Otherwise, you're just wasting money.

Am I not allowed to ask why someone else might think a game is fun? I can understand if a game is just not for me - I don't like Starcraft, but I can see why others might. But people feel insulted when I don't understand why they think a vampire who breaks into a girl's house and watches her sleep is considered romantic. I feel like saying "I don't have to justify my purchase to you" is avoiding giving me an answer that would help me better understand the other person. No, people don't have to have similar tastes, and I admit that my knee-jerk response was not polite and didn't help the situation, but to be told "I'm not going to waste brainpower answering your question" makes me not want to bother asking them about anything.

 

[shrekfan246]

I feel like "Why do you care?" means that I'm not allowed to ask. I care because I don't like seeing bad games get rewarded.

You're not the authority on what makes a game "good" or "bad".

Why make a game with a good story or unique game mechanics if you can just make another brown military shooter that'll sell?

Because different games cater to different audiences. I would think that should be obvious, considering the sheer volume of games being produced these days, especially games that aren't "brown military shooters".

If all you want is a game with co-op, why buy a new one instead of replaying Gears of War if it's going to be a similar experience? Otherwise, you're just wasting money.

"Similar experience" =/= "The exact same thing".

You might argue that Army of Two co-op and Gears of War co-op could provide functionally the same amount of entertainment for people who are just looking to play a shooter. I would counter that the difference in characters, enemies, locations, and weapons would justify it being a different enough experience that the people might enjoy it despite the mechanics being incredibly similar.

Am I not allowed to ask why someone else might think a game is fun? I can understand if a game is just not for me - I don't like Starcraft, but I can see why others might. But people feel insulted when I don't understand why they think a vampire who breaks into a girl's house and watches her sleep is considered romantic.

Of course you can ask. They can decline to answer.

Refusing to believe that they might find something you consider 'mediocre' to be fun will likely make them feel insulted, though, especially if you came across as condescending as you did in your OP when you were directly engaging them.

I feel like saying "I don't have to justify my purchase to you" is avoiding giving me an answer that would help me better understand the other person. No, people don't have to have similar tastes, and I admit that my knee-jerk response was not polite and didn't help the situation, but to be told "I'm not going to waste brainpower answering your question" makes me not want to bother asking them about anything.

If I were asked why I like Halo so much, with the given reason that the games are "all the same", I wouldn't feel a compelling urge to justify why I like Halo.

There are better ways to phrase your question than what I've gleamed from the information in your OP, especially if you're actually looking to understand what your friend sees in these games. Telling them that the games they like are all the same thing is most likely going to make them go on the defensive, which is when you get a response such as "I don't need to justify myself."

 

[Evonisia]

I got Gears 3, and this time the experience was so boring and tiring to us that we didn't even bother with Judgement.

Well that's a shame, Judgment's campaign is much better than 3's.

/whips self back onto topic

I think that maybe you're being a little stubborn on the matter. To be honest since he plays less games than you he's much easier to please, and mediocre games are often designed for people who aren't into games and are inherently simplistic in nature.

 

[TrevHead]

I have the same trouble too as my friends play mainstream western titles on the 360 while me on the otherhand am a pre XBOX era Japanese for console, western on PC type of gamer which means that I'm often gaming alone as I don't have the energy to play those type of games and what I like is too niche and quirky for their tastes.

If they were on Steam we could maybe meet half way as I would have bought them some games when a sale came up, but MS has no way to gift games to friends and I'm not buying MS point cards for them.

I suppose you can't really complain what other ppl like and dislike, I've never played Army of two but I some of the games in my collection are 7/10 and considered quirky cult games like Deadly Premonition, El Shaddia and Enslaved. Many mainstream gamers would call them mediocre too.

 

[Thyunda]

What. Why is liking things bad? Why is having a positive attitude EVER bad? Dude you could give me Deadly Premonition and I would play that through to the end and probably even enjoy it. Parts of it. A little bit. Maybe.

 

[piinyouri]

My advice, just let him like what he likes.

I have a few friends who play nothing more than Cooking Mama, Farmville, and Brain Age and I don;t feel the need to tell them they are 'doing it wrong.'

I also have a another friend who is similar to you.
If I went out and bought a game with EA's name on it, he'd feel the need to chime in with a dry sarcastic, but not really joking "Why?" and I respond to him pretty much the same way your friend responded to you.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

I see lots of people bash on the stories of several RPGs, such as: White Knight Chronicles(II), Demon's/Dark Souls, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, Dragon's Dogma and Dragon Age: Origins. Personally, I love all of them(inb4 "Demon's and Dark Souls have no story, hurrdurr").

I see lots of people bash on the gameplay of those games, as well, along with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate and Dishonored. I think all of them are excellent fun to play, and still play each and every one of them to this day.

I see lots of people go on about how the music sucks or the environments are bland and/or washed out and boring and all that other stuff. I think they're beautiful, interesting and the music is amazing.

One man's definition of mediocre is another man's definition of awesome. If he likes co-op oriented Third-Person Shooters, more power to him. Just let him like what he likes, whether you agree or not. Feel free to recommend some games you think he might like, just be prepared for the possibility that your definition of awesome could be his definition of mediocre.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Let them like what they like. I have a lot of friends who enjoy entertainment of all types that I absolutely can't stand, but I don't feel like ruining their fun in the hopes that they come to enjoy what I like. Sure, if they keep pestering me to enjoy what they enjoy then I might challenge their tastes just because they're doing it to me, but otherwise, there's no point in trying to ruin someone's fun. So what if games keep getting made for them? There are plenty of games still out there that aren't of the "brown military shooter" or "dude-bro co-op" games, and plenty more continue to be made. So what if you think they're wasting their money? The thing about money, is that it is only wasted if the person who spent it doesn't get the amount of enjoyment out of it that they paid for it. If they get $60 worth of entertainment out of it, then they didn't waste any money.

And I don't really see why they have to explain themselves, especially since it sounds like you came across as incredibly rude and aggressive towards their tastes. There's a point in which people can have healthy discussion about differences in taste (so long as they justify those tastes), but if someone is obviously antagonistic and closed off to the idea that the other person's opinion is legitimate (as you seem to be towards your friend's style of games), then there's really no point in having a discussion or explaining their positions, as they likely perceive that you won't even really accept it as legitimate even after they explain it. My friends and I might discuss our differences, but we also remain respectful of the other's position. If you really want to get further in discussing with your friends your differences in taste, then you really need to treat them respectfully. However, if all you really want to do is convince them they shouldn't enjoy what they enjoy, then you might as well quit now.

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

What. Why is liking things bad? Why is having a positive attitude EVER bad? Dude you could give me Deadly Premonition and I would play that through to the end and probably even enjoy it. Parts of it. A little bit. Maybe.

Do you smell that?

Why, it smells like ELITISM.

I'm with you on this one, I can never fathom why people look down on others just for liking something *pause for effect* "different". *audience gasps*
Though to be fair I don't think OP is THAT far on the scale, I'm more referring to extreme cases.

OP I could understand if you dislike the actual product, to each his own, but don't force your opinion on others. You could have suggested some games to your friend rather than implying he was playing "samey garbage". If he doesn't accept your suggestions, then move on. He may come around to like other genres in his own time, or he may never do so, either way, the responses you have been receiving are quite appropriate. No one has to justify themselves or their interests.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

ever think it could be your attitude?

Asking why someone enjoys something and suggesting other things they might like is one thing, its something I do all the time with my friends

Comparing the games someone likes to Twilight is on a compleatly different level and I would tell you to stick it where the sun doesn't shine too

 

[DuelLadyS]

People enjoy different things. I play quirky import stuff like Katamari Damacy, my fiancé likes more 'hardcore' fare like Skyrim. We still get along, we can even find common ground in some games (Guitar Hero, Grifball in Halo 3)- but as a general rule, we don't recommend games to each other. We know we have different tastes.

You should probably apologize to your friend- he's allowed to like what he wants to, even if you think it's mediocre crap. Then just be honest about what games you like- he'll know you're just gushing over something you're enjoying, let him do the same thing over his games. There's nothing wrong with having differing opinions- and if you're cool with his gaming preferences, he'll be more likely to try games you think are 'better'.

 

[frizzlebyte]

I was on a road trip last weekend with a friend who's a casual gamer. Since he knew I liked games a lot, he mentioned he picked up the new Army of Two game. My response was along the lines of "What? Why?" I'll admit it was a kneejerk response and also not very nice, as I was basically insulting his taste in games. However, I tried to be understanding and try to understand why it was that the game appealed to him. He told me that he and a friend of his liked playing co-op shooters, and that AoT fits into that mold nicely.

It sounds like you really know what the problem is: you insulted his taste. Sounds like Army of Two is exactly what he's looking for in the kind of games he likes to play, which is great, IMO, but you just crapped all over it like it was wrong for him to like what he likes. "Trying" to be understanding is another problem; it indicates that you are somehow condescending to his level, but just...can't...quite...make...it, because you are soooo much more cultured than he is in regard to games.

And it doesn't really matter whether this is how you meant it, either. If I sense this just from your post, then I can almost guarantee you that he felt this as well in person. Whether you meant it that way is irrelevant.

Now, I can understand that reasoning to a certain extent. Back when the first Gears of War came out, a different friend and me played the game through multiple times, ultimately on the hardest difficulty setting, loving it the whole way through. When I got Gears 2, we played it through as well. Except this time it didn't feel as fresh, and we only finished it one time. I got Gears 3, and this time the experience was so boring and tiring to us that we didn't even bother with Judgement.

Maybe he just *likes* that kind of gameplay. I can relate: for the first three games Splinter Cell was basically the same game with a new coat of paint, and I would have been happy for that to have continued to be the case. Changing the games to be what they are now has essentially created a new game series (which I'm not a fan of) with the Splinter Cell name. Some people don't mind playing/reading/watching similar experiences. That's why there are a butt-load of courtroom and crime procedurals on TV. People love that stuff, even though once I've seen an episode of CSI, I'm done for a long time.

I explained that to my friend and asked why he could continue playing those games even though they were just the same thing, and at this point I got a response of "I don't have to justify myself to you." It's the same response I've gotten when I ask Twilight fangirls about why they like the movies. I don't want to force my opinions down his throat, but I do feel that he's limiting his experiences by only wanting to play a specific genre, and considering I'm one of those people who thinks that violence in games is getting disgusting, it's very difficult for me to consider his point of view. Personally, I've had tons of fun playing single-player games where we just pass the controller around, like Just Cause 2, Trials, or Driver: San Francisco. When I suggested he try that, he just dismissed me. We're still friends, but I doubt I could ever be frank with my gaming opinions around him, which is bad considering it's a huge hobby of mine.

What do you guys think?

I don't think he has to justify himself to you, and this idea that you can't be frank with him about your gaming opinions (because you got mad at him for holding his own opinion, let's be honest here) is more about you than it is him. There is no reason you couldn't have helped him find some other things he might be interested in, but you probably cocked that up big-time, because you seem to have been a twit about it the first time around.

And Twilighters apparently like the series because it is sappy and romantic, with a supernatural twist, and girls at that age are sappy and romantic, and some like vampire fiction in addition to/in place of Disney princess movies. It's not gonna be a guy's kind of movie, most likely, but that doesn't mean I literally can't have any idea why it appeals to the demographic that it does.