Game concept idea: "One For All - The Needs Of The Many"

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Thaliur

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I posted this in the "what the linearity" thread first, as an attempt to create a non-linear Ego-Shooter type action game, after playing Penumbra - Black Plague too much

A race of partially or fully artificial beings (similar to the Borg, or some kind of robotic species) is engaged in at least one war with another faction (not necessarily a different species). The player takes the role of a combat AI which is randomly connected to battle drones that require that class of AI at the time.
The player could choose his AI class:

Officer AI:
Capable of commanding several other combat drones during a battle and accessing any drone's A/V feed. Any information aquired by any AI will be available to officer AIs (as a tactical map)

Pilot AI:
Almost useless on the battlefield itself, but can control pretty much any kind of vehicle encountered, including non-standard and enemy vehicles. Newly discovered vehicles need to be scanned before use. The knowledge obtained by the scan will be uploaded to the collective mind

Maintenance AI:
Can repair and re-equip other combat drones. Damaged drones and drones with low energy, damaged equipment and other malfunctions will be reported to the nearest Maintenance AI by the collective mind

Hunter AI:
Advanced image analysis and navigational software improves the hunter's ability to find objects or enemies, and determine "safe areas". The hunter's specialised targeting software allows for increased weapon precision (All weapons can "zoom", sniper weapon zoom increased). Motorics had to be tuned down to enable these advanced algorithms, so the hunter moves at reduced speed and can not use any vehicle at all (Apart from being a passenger, of course). Hunter surveillance data will be uploaded to the collective mind

Siege AI:
The siege AI uses the combat drone's scanners to analyse any objects and materials in sight and can use them to construct defensive walls. Additionally, the siege AI utilises a trajectory plotting software enabling the use of ballistic weaponry at long range with increased precision. Hunter surveillance data and drone telemetrics can be used to target siege weapons.

Soldier AI:
The most common type of combat AI.
The soldier is able to use any weapon encountered after a short analysis which will be performed after obtaining the weapon, and will transmit this knowledge into the collective mind immediately. The soldier AI can use the standard drone equipment more efficiently than most combat AIs

All drones are equipped equally, with a sniper weapon, an assault weapon, an emergency meelee weapon and a demolition weapon (Rocket launcher type or grenade launcher type).
All standard weapons are attached to the drone, and will use the same ammunition in different quantities (Energy weapons, Particle accellerators or on-the-fly ammo fabrication).
Any drone can pick up a new weapon and carry it around. To use it, the weapon must be given to a soldier drone for analysis first.

Every drone will periodically scan their surroundings and upload this information to the collective mind. Hunters and Soldiers more frequently than others.
All of these AI types will be able to pilot "their" vehicles, but only the pilot AI will be able to - for example - drive at full speed or perform sharp turns without the vehicle getting out of control.
Any AI can use any weapon that the collective knows (their weapons and weapons found and analysed by soldiers), but only the soldier AI will have access to secondary fire modes, be able to use newly discovered weapons and will take less damage from enemy attacks (evasive actions, redundancy...)
An officer can order any combat drone to move to certain positions or perform certain actions. The presence of an officer near any combat drone will increase their efficiency by multithreaded data processing (examplaes: Increased Hunter weapon precision, faster Maintenance operations...) this effect will decrease the more drones are performing advanced tasks in range of their nearest officer. Officer AIs will be able to set processing priorities (Maintenance before siege, for example).

As the game goes on, the player will be awarded resource occupation points for helping in missions (different actions score differently for different AI types. Pilot AIs could be awarded based on the efficiency of vehicles piloted by them, hw many drones they transported safely, how well they used the vehicle's weaponry...). These can be redeemed to gain access to hub processing which will increase their special abilities' efficiency, priority energy supply, giving them slow health/ammo regenaration abilities and Alpha Order Permissions (any player can perform a certain number of Officer actions, Officers will be allowed to order reinforcements or supplies to the battlefield).

In every battlefield, the collective will be connected by a hub near their entry point. This hub also serves as an uplink to the collective mind. If this hub is destroyed or disabled all long-range collective functions will be lost (no telemetrics, no surveillance data, no new remote weapon or vehicle knowledge - soldiers and Pilots can still learn, only not upload -, but officer proximity bonus will still work).
Maintenance drones can repair the Hub as long as it's core - an artificial living brain - is not damaged.
If the hub is completely lost, and the drones manage to fulfill their objectives without it, an Officer AI can call three Maintenance drones and these four drones will form a makeshift hub to inform the collective about their success (in Singleplayer mode: if the player is not an Officer, the closest safe Officer will submit to the player's commands after completing all primary objectives).
Should the player die before completing the mission, and the battlefield hub is still functional, another drone can be taken control of to help complete the mission objectives, the player can "hibernate" inside the hub brain's resource cache until the mission is over, or can choose to leave the mission. These options will cost resource occupation points. If the battlefield hub is damaged and inactive, the dead player will remain dormant in the current drone's destroyed body (maybe fatal weapons that instantly erase the player could be introduced at a later stage). If the mission is a success or the battlefield hub gets repaired, the player can choose from the usual post-mortem option as mentioned above.
If the mission is a complete failure (all drones leave/are incapacitated, the primary objectives are not yet fulfilled, and the hub is destroyed), the player will be "resurrected" from a backup within the collective mind, at a high cost of resource occupation points.
If the player runs out of resource occupation points, the player AI will lose all access permissions to any system resources, no memory access, no hub functions, and most importantly: no drone control. This basically means "Game Over"



I think this concept would make a great multiplayer game, too.
There are some unfinished details, but these are, after all, the reason why I posted it here, in a seperate thread.

Some issues I found so far:

Balancing the AI classes would be a horrible task. Resource occupation points should be awarded to any AI type depending on the difficulty of completed tasks, and without preferring any classes. That means a Maintenance player who keeps a soldier alive so that he can defeat ten enemy fighters should get about the same amount of resource occupation pints as the soldier, maybe even more, since a drone controlled by a Maintenance AI takes more damage.

Writing the "NPC" AI would be a horrible task too. The drones need to act as a team, according to a plan, while still reacting to the player's actions.
If a Hunter AI player disables an enemy defense system, maybe by sniping sensory equipment, the collective should replace most siege AIs on CPU-controlled drones by such more appropriate for the new situation.

Player confusion.
This should be avoided. The player should be able to stay informed about all the other drones' actions and positions without cluttering up the HUD with pointers, icons and trajectory plots.


Edit: I just thought I should add a bit of "lore".
Just imagine any background story that might lead to a hive-like partially artificial species. There are so many out there that I'd surely make my own look like one of them. I might add one later, when creativity strikes.

The species (I'll just call them "Hive" now, unitl I find a better name) consists of one main control entity, the Master Mind, that controls all major decisions, much like a human government. Serving this Master Mind are several sub-entities, each with one area of duty. The player in the game I suggested is part of the Military Intelligence (I just couldn't resist calling it that).

Each control entity commands a certain type of combat drone, designed for tasks required by the respective brain. There are mining drones, manufacturing drones, military drones and others.

The Military Intelligence designed the Battlefield Entry And Control Pod (hub brains for short), the Universal Combat Drone, and all military devices, weapons and vehicles used by the Hive army, and created the several AIs that control these drones.
Each combat drone AI is an individual entity, and can be transferred through the Hive communication network as required, and the player is one of them.

When the Military Intelligence decides to attack a certain area, an orbiting Pod Deployment Cruiser will detach a Battlefield Entry And Control Pod containing the hub brain and some combat drones pre-equipped with Soldier, Maintenance and Hunter AIs. The hub brain then evaluates the military situation by analysing the Hunter reports.
During that initial phase, a Personnel Transfer Pod is launched, containing several "blank" drones with just basic functionality (no special abilities at all, and only basic weapon and vehicle skills).
Depending on the tactical situation the hub brain then requests the AIs needed for its mission.
The Military Intelligence selects the AIs to send on the mission and transfers them into the hub brain's memory, where they will lay dormant until the Personnel Transfer Pod enters communication range. As soon as the arriving combat drones connect to the Hub Brain, each of them will be occupied by one AI. As soon as the Pod arrives and deploys, the actual battle begins.
This is the way it would happen in Singleplayer mode. The player will be part of the actual attack usually (Personnel Transfer Pod), but sometimes of the initial landing party, to defend the Hub Brain or gather data about the battlefield.

In multiplayer mode, each side is allowed to take a certain number of Resource Occupation Points into the battle, so the more experienced (on average) one team is, the less human players will be part of it. CPU-controlled AIs will be added until the requested number of AIs of each type is reached. This way, the game should be pretty balanced.
The objectives could range from stealing data, resource acquisition, reconnaissance or Metaverse gameplay to simple deathmatch, which one side will win if the other side's Hub Brain is killed.

Poll removed because the thread doesn't need one. - J
 

Thaliur

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Hmm, I just noticed there were two people who voted "Huh?"
It'd be nice if those two could specify the reason for their confusion, so I could maybe clear things up :)

Thanks Kell_Sennet, that's a bit encouraging :)
 

Thaliur

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Uncle Comrade said:
Sounds like a fantastic idea, and if worked on by the right people, would be an excellent game.
Thank you :)
First I thought Valve might be able to do it, but their games were never really known for excellent AI.
Maybe the people who created Battlezone could work on such a game, since Battlezone had similar AI structure requirements, just not as complex.
Well, maybe someone important enough sees this suggestion. In that case, I'd like to gat a share of the game sale profit ^^
 

SilentScope001

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Alright, so let me get this straight.

You are a person who is a commander of a squad of AI units, and sent to fight wars. As you get more experience, you gain special abilities and your AI units improve.

If this is the jist of it, it just sounds so similar to the Endwar game that it is rather unneeded. You are more of a generalist in that game rather than a specialist, but you require the help of your other commanders too in MP, and your units grow in experience as well based on your effectiveness.

The other element, about all your friendly forces sharing intel, we got VOIP for that.
 

Thaliur

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SilentScope001 said:
Alright, so let me get this straight.

You are a person who is a commander of a squad of AI units, and sent to fight wars. As you get more experience, you gain special abilities and your AI units improve.

The other element, about all your friendly forces sharing intel, we got VOIP for that.
No, it's really quite different. Most importantly, it is not a strategy game, it's played from first person view, and you control a single individual combat drone.

Actually, you play a combat AI, a not-physically-present entity, and take control of singular combat drones, which are all basically the same, as required.
As soon as you take control of one drone, you can carry out the functions available for your selected player class (see the list of examples I made). You will never leave that role, no matter which drone you occupy.

You can only assign orders to other drones if you are an officer AI. Of course, in multiplayer mode you could tell other players to do stuff.
Usually you wouldn't command anyone, rather be commanded by the collective mind issuing certain objectives to the whole battle unit (every drone that is connected to the hub brain within your mission area), and you try to help the whole battle unit in accomplishing these objectives. As a hunter you could scout the area, giving the siege AIs the opportunity to take out enemy defenses before you have to deal with them directly, as a Maintenance AI you would keep the other drones healthy and efficient so they can fight on, as a Pilot AI you could take some of your soldiers past enemy defenses in a heavily-armoured vehicle... there are lots of possibilities.

You would still be a specialist, but as a part of a team of different specialists, and as you gain these Resource Occupation Points, you can assign them to certain beneficial functions the hive mind offers to you.

The battle hub shared information also can't be replaced by VoIP.
Some of the hub information you would get involves the information required to pilot certain vehicles or use cerain weapons. You could not use these newly discovered weapons and vehicles at all without this shared information provided by Soldiers and Pilots.
VoIP could not really replace the other shared information either. Of course you could tell your teammates where you spotted enemies or stuff like that, but this would only work if your whole team is controlled by human players, which it would most likely not be, since I intended this game as singleplayer with additional objective-based multiplayer, and huge battle units (maybe about fifty drones per side in multiplayer).
Also, I never heard of any VoIP application that provides in-game tactical maps, hitpoint alerts, and position tracking.

I wouldn't have suggested this game if I ever saw something like it. Battlezone was the most similar game I saw yet, but there are quite a lot of major differences. Machines is pretty similar due to the concept behind it.
 

SilentScope001

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No, it's really quite different. Most importantly, it is not a strategy game, it's played from first person view, and you control a single individual combat drone.

Actually, you play a combat AI, a not-physically-present entity, and take control of singular combat drones, which are all basically the same, as required.

Huh. My bad then. Then it seems to be similar to <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Assault>Urban Assault then. Big difference is again, you are a generalist rather than being specialized with different AI units.

Urban Assault have you play as an AI Supercomputer that control drones that fight against human and alien forces. You have the power to control each AI Drone, as well as just control how the troops operate. You are able to produce more units by controlling Power Stations. To win, just destroy the enemy AI Station.

You also have access to a map that shows whatever your drones can see, allowing you to find where the enemies are.

The reason I mentioned VOIP was due to basically sharing data and intel. Alright, so it is not as effective as basically seeing a map where your enemies are located, but Urban Assault has that too.

There ARE two main differences: 1) There is no classes. However, I don't know how fun it would be to only control one type of 'unit', so it might be more fun just to be the Commander and play against other Commanders. and 2) It's NOT mulitiplayer, and there is no level gaining. However, this is countered by the fact Urban Assault has an awesome single-player storyline, and I like SP mode. So, prehaps, the most accurate way of describing your idea is an MMORPG-version of Urban Assault, but I will need to have you confirm if I am right or not.

The reason is not to disparge your game concept, but rather to state, well, game concepts may already exist. I don't believe in originality, you know, since a good idea is likely already been used. Still, I love to see some sort of Urban Assault 2.
 

Thaliur

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Hmm, Urban Assault does sound quite similar, yes. Never heard of it before.

I prefer SinglePlayer games too, but if the multiplayer is thought through and well-integrated, I like multiplayer too (Starfleet Command 2 was nice with its Metaverse multiplayer).

"All For One" would focus more on the experiences of one Single AI, a bit like Renegade compared to "real" C&C.

As for the player classes, I personally like playing support characters in games that allow them. Like CLerics in Neverwinter Nights, Engineers and Medics in Wolfenstein or Battlefield and similar, and I think the implementation of the classes as simply knowledge and abilities rather than physical differences could be an interesting (possibly) new concept.

I first intended All For One as a singleplayer game, but the team-based concept would work well for multiplayer too, and added this part of the description.
Usually, you would either follow a storyline (haven't thought of one yet though, I might add it later), or some kind of strategic war similar to The War Of The Worlds or Conquest Earth, although the latter wouldn't work very well I guess, since that kind of game would only be interesting if you were the commander.
So, I should probably think of a storyline. I started a Science Fiction story once, never really got past establishing the world in which it takes place though, maybe I'll use that as a base.

In One For All, each type of AI would be a necessary part of the attack force, so every AI class chosen should provide some interesting gameplay. Of course, some would be preferred (RTS fans would most likely choose Officer class, FPS fans soldiers...) but I hope a mix will be established online. If not, multiplayer mode will die and people will continue to play singleplayer, as it happenend to many nice games (Cataclysm, E2150 to 2160, SFC2...), so the singleplayer mode does indeed need a good storyline to make the game worth buying.
The story, however, can't be focused on the player character, unless it takes a few steps down TRON road (it should definitely not rush along it and crash into the Fence Of Stupidity some miles behind the Master Control Brain, like Matrix did)
A good storyline concerning a whole species or faction without making the player feel too insignificant could be difficult though. I'll think about it for a while. Maybe some kind of "too much individuality" story could work, but then I'd have to decentralise the Hive a bit.

The multiplayer mode Ifound most suitable for One For All, a Metaverse game, could indeed be described as an Urban Assault MMORPG, with some tolerance.
 

Thaliur

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Hungry Xenomorph said:
I really had to look that up, and this is what I found:
"too long; didn't read."
1. The inability to accept, understand or pay attention to information when not separated by a header.
2. The ability to arbitrarily read 400 small posts but not a long one.
3. A sign of ADD or lack of reading capability.
4. A very cheap response and an indication of lack of wit.
5. 90% of the time: A lie.
6. A desperate attempt at a comeback used by people who just can't think of one.
7. Usually used by people who've been torn apart verbally but want one last attempt at looking witty.
8. Total failure at #7.
7. A sign that, not only is someone too lazy and stupid to read but, clearly, too lazy and stupid to even type out four words indicating such.
9. Collect every "tl,dr" post online, and you'll have a good estimate of the number of lazy idiots on Earth, who currently have Internet access.
10. Should really be:
"Too Lazy, Don't Read."
Why do you even bother replying if you have no intention of participating or at least reading the thread at all?
 

Thaliur

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TheNecroswanson said:
Because if you are unable to simplify your ideas into something that doesn't require too much time to read/comprehend, than you have failed your pitch.
Like if you took your first post to valve for a pitch, they'd most likely look at it, and either laugh you out of the room or ask you to sum it up in ten words.
Pitch before details good sir, pitch before details.
OK then, what about the first paragraph of the description as a short summary?

"A race of partially or fully artificial beings (similar to the Borg, or some kind of robotic species) is engaged in at least one war with another faction (not necessarily a different species). The player takes the role of a combat AI which is randomly connected to battle drones that require that class of AI at the time."

Everything else needed a more detailed explanation, and I bet if I had just posted this, almost everyone here would have asked for details or ignored it because it was too short, rather than because it was too long.
 

Fire Daemon

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Sounds kinda good.

...kinda

The main problem I have with it, is its just way to complicated.I couldn't make much sense of what you where trying to get across But I think I have the right idea in thinking that you play as an AI drone that has a specific battlefield role. The drone shares information and collected data with other drones via a link to a main HUB that is controlling the AI.

One problem here is that AI arn't controlled so I think the term AI should not be used.

How about instead you play as robots controlled by the centre HUB. Each robot has its Battlefeild role and is designed for specific actions. For example you could have:

Tech robots for repair and maintenance. They could repair other robots, build infrastructure and capture strategic points. They might also be trained in explosives

Vehicle robots. These are vehicles not pilots. Instead of playing as someone who can drive a tank wont it be better to play as a tank?

Specialized combat robots. These are broken up into your sniper, demolitions, assualt, siege expert etc etc.

And then you could also have Turrets but these would not be player controlled.

While your ideas for the AI is good I think players will not know how to use them correctly and will just take the soldier and go off and shot stuff.
 

Thaliur

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Fire Daemon said:
Sounds kinda good.

...kinda

The main problem I have with it, is its just way to complicated.I couldn't make much sense of what you where trying to get across But I think I have the right idea in thinking that you play as an AI drone that has a specific battlefield role. The drone shares information and collected data with other drones via a link to a main HUB that is controlling the AI.

One problem here is that AI arn't controlled so I think the term AI should not be used.

How about instead you play as robots controlled by the centre HUB. Each robot has its Battlefeild role and is designed for specific actions. For example you could have:

Tech robots for repair and maintenance. They could repair other robots, build infrastructure and capture strategic points. They might also be trained in explosives

Vehicle robots. These are vehicles not pilots. Instead of playing as someone who can drive a tank wont it be better to play as a tank?

Specialized combat robots. These are broken up into your sniper, demolitions, assualt, siege expert etc etc.

And then you could also have Turrets but these would not be player controlled.

While your ideas for the AI is good I think players will not know how to use them correctly and will just take the soldier and go off and shot stuff.
I think you got it right, at least everything you said fits into what I thought about the game.
The reason I made the player an AI was mainly the necessity for a believeable and quick transistion between battlefields.
I don't know if you played Call Of Duty 4. Maybe the other three games follow the same concept. In CoD4 you play a different soldier in almost every mission, on another battlefield, instead of following just one soldier.
In The Needs Of The Many, I thought the player should be "just a piece of software", so that you can jump between battlefield without all that tedious hanging about in hypersp... sorry, without having to deal with too much dropship traffic and similar devices, and still having the player play the same "person" in every mission. ALso, playing an AI that controls one of many identical drones gives some reasonable explanation for respawning on the battlefield (you just take over another drone). Of course, this would also work with different types of drone "bodies" as you suggested, just with fewer drones to choose from.

Your suggestion to make AI-controlled vehicles instead of pilot drones does sound interesting. But then the Pilot AI would lose its ability to take over enemy vehicles. This is not really a requirement, but they are already quite limited even with that ability.
Maybe a mobile control unit that could be placed in enemy vehicles by other drones and then taken over by a vehicle AI might work.

Turrets are a nice idea, haven't thought of those at all. Maybe some basic turrets attached to the Entry Pod, that can be upgraded by siege drones, since Turrets could be seen as defensive structures.

I must say I agree with your last sentence. The game might end up in between genres, like TRON2.0 or Battlezone, and people coming in from the RTS side would stick to Officers, while people who prefer Shooters will stick to Soldiers, or maybe Hunters. The other types might only be played by RPG people, and those usually don't like Egoshooters.
The game needs a really good Singleplayer mode, preferredly with a high replay value, because multiplayer will most likely die quite soon.

Oh, and about Imperator_2's suggestion: It could be about the Borg, but there are two problems with integrating Borg as protagonists into a game:
1) License, obviously. A large part of the game budget would have to be spent to just be allowed to make the game, leaving less for the actual game
2)Speed. I might have missed some episodes, but as far as I know, Borg drones are pretty slow usually, and even slower when they started to lose almost all of their fearsomeness (shortly after "First Contact", when they got the Queen and lost all traces of independence), and I don't think it would be much fun to slowly stride across a battlefield as a Borg drone, even with their adaptive shielding (which apparently doesn't help much against projectile or blade weapons). Of course, there might be some faster drones somewhere, but I never saw them.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Borg, I really thought of them first, but I don't think they would really work well in such a game.