Game Dev Tycoon

[Rumpsteak]

I am also going to raise a point that I thinks should be considered in this games case. Since it was the owner of the property that made the game available for download without purchase can those who downloaded the modified version really be considered to have pirated the game?

Given that it was very clearly marked "Cracked and Working" while it was being provided by the owners the people downloading didn't know that. They were specifically looking for a free version so they didn't have to pay the $8. You couldn't even try to sue them for piracy but just because you're able to steal something doesn't mean you should. Its like if I leave my wallet unattended for 5 mins thats not an invitation for you to take my money from it. I know there are theives out there but that doesn't make it alright for them to steal.

I largely agree with your sentiment and acknowledge that those people most likely did consider themselves to be pirating the game. It's the technicalities that are off interest in this case. Does piracy require the willingness to pirate and or lack of knowledge of the origin of the software. Is it having the origin of the software be the owner of the property, even if those downloading it are unaware of this fact, enough to classify it as a legal download, assuming the code for in game bankruptcy is left in tact.

 

[Ravesy]

While it being very similar to another game does raise some eyebrows, lets be honest here most AAA games copy eachother all the time. If the big budget ones can do that under the reason of 'inspiration' and improving the idea, then so can the indies.

Oh please, Game Dev Tycoon is not a different game than Game Dev Story, it is essentially an HD remake made by different people. The two games are virtually identical in mechanics and progression. I expect these people to get hit with the law-bat, and whatever income there was from the 7% of people who paid for it will be gone too.

The similarity is worse than your garden variety Zynga-ripoff, which says a lot.

I completely agree, actually until your post i thought it WAS made by the same people, and that it was just the PC version of Game Dev Story that I have on my phone. Kind of turns my opinion of this around...

 

[Sandernista]

But then, don't claim to be some sort of moral guardian and pirate it.

Please enlighten me as to where in my post I claimed to be some moral guardian.

If so, you aren't sending any other message than "hey, treat your developers like shit and I'll still play your game, only you should put more DRM into it".

Nice job, genius.

Actually spending the money sends that message. "It's completely ok to screw the dev team out of money well earned, these people will pay anyways!" I see no reason not to play the greatest RPG of all time just so I don't feel bad about stealing from bethesda.

Then you don't steal the game. You either don't buy it at all or buy a game that doesn't screw the developers.

I do buy games from publishers who don't screw the dev teams, and directly from developers. I have even sent money directly to developers when I felt they were being treated unfairly despite the amazing work they've done.

 

[ResonanceSD]

While it being very similar to another game does raise some eyebrows, lets be honest here most AAA games copy eachother all the time. If the big budget ones can do that under the reason of 'inspiration' and improving the idea, then so can the indies.

Oh please, Game Dev Tycoon is not a different game than Game Dev Story, it is essentially an HD remake made by different people. The two games are virtually identical in mechanics and progression. I expect these people to get hit with the law-bat, and whatever income there was from the 7% of people who paid for it will be gone too.

The similarity is worse than your garden variety Zynga-ripoff, which says a lot.

So you expect Kairosoft to be sued by the first people to make a business sim game around game development too?

Oh by the way, have iD software sued Infinity Ward yet? DICE?

No?

Oh, yeah, because your entire little fantasy will never happen. Once you make a game, other people can make games in the same genre. That's why Pong isn't the only Tennnis game on the market now.

 

[Poodleboy]

This move was one of the most clever marketing moves I have seen a quite a while. Though I decided not to buy the game it certainly did get my attention, after all who doesn't love a good sense of humour.

I am also going to raise a point that I thinks should be considered in this games case. Since it was the owner of the property that made the game available for download without purchase can those who downloaded the modified version really be considered to have pirated the game?

Copyright infringement is the act of making a copy of a piece of work without the permission of the owner of the rights to that work. Downloading anything is making a copy no mater what source you download from. Just because it is shared on bit torrent does not mean you automatically have permission to make a copy/download it. The torrent was also labelled in the same style as most pirated software so there was even less reason to believe that anyone had the rights owners permission to download it. Whether you think piracy is justified or not, downloading anything you don't have permission to download is still piracy.

Technically though, changing format of a file also counts and copyright infringement so loading your CDs on to your MP3 player is copyright infringement too.

I love that some players of the cracked version were even asking if there was any way to research DRM to help combat piracy in the game.

 

[Aesir23]

There are no valid reasons for Piracy.

What about if the money you would pay for a game wouldn't go to the developers, but instead went to those who screwed the developers out of the money?

Then you don't steal the game. You either don't buy it at all or buy a game that doesn't screw the developers.

When it comes to an small, cheaply priced indie game it would be downright impossible to justify piracy.

When it comes to larger games that are priced roughly $60 ($100+ in some places) I'm going to hold the unpopular opinion that trying before buying is a legitimate reason in very specific circumstances....

At the end of the day if there's no demo the publisher is saying buy the game or don't buy the game but there are no freebies. If you're not happy with forking out the cash for the game because you don't know if its going to be good or not then the only legitimate option is not buying the game. There is quite literally no game that it would kill you not to play, so there is no valid reason to pirate.

Also you seem to be suggesting that stealling cheap things is bad but stealing expensive things is alright? Is there anything else thats ok to steal cause its expensive? Stealing from the little takeaway place down the street is bad, but from the fancy restaurant with the over priced meals is completely fine? I mean they're not giving samples.

I'm not going to pretend that it's alright however you seem to miss the part where I said "very specific circumstances". Almost anyone can afford a $10 indie game but someone might have only $60 to spare once in a blue moon. I'm certainly not saying that someone should keep a game after they've decided one way or the other as to do so is certainly wrong. If I failed to get that across then clearly I should have gone through my post more carefully.

However, I will concede that it is largely invalid since unless all of the video streaming sites on the internet suddenly stop working in some bizarre accident. At least with Let's Play videos you can get a look at the content beforehand.

 

[SecondPrize]

While it being very similar to another game does raise some eyebrows, lets be honest here most AAA games copy eachother all the time. If the big budget ones can do that under the reason of 'inspiration' and improving the idea, then so can the indies.

Oh please, Game Dev Tycoon is not a different game than Game Dev Story, it is essentially an HD remake made by different people. The two games are virtually identical in mechanics and progression. I expect these people to get hit with the law-bat, and whatever income there was from the 7% of people who paid for it will be gone too.

The similarity is worse than your garden variety Zynga-ripoff, which says a lot.

So you expect Kairosoft to be sued by the first people to make a business sim game around game development too?

Oh by the way, have iD software sued Infinity Ward yet? DICE?

No?

Oh, yeah, because your entire little fantasy will never happen. Once you make a game, other people can make games in the same genre. That's why Pong isn't the only Tennnis game on the market now.

That's true up to a point. When you get into sim social/cityville level of 'inspiration' then the courts will hear the case. There's a large difference between making another fps and making what amounts to be the same fps as a competitor.

 

[MagunBFP]

At the end of the day if there's no demo the publisher is saying buy the game or don't buy the game but there are no freebies. If you're not happy with forking out the cash for the game because you don't know if its going to be good or not then the only legitimate option is not buying the game. There is quite literally no game that it would kill you not to play, so there is no valid reason to pirate.

Also you seem to be suggesting that stealling cheap things is bad but stealing expensive things is alright? Is there anything else thats ok to steal cause its expensive? Stealing from the little takeaway place down the street is bad, but from the fancy restaurant with the over priced meals is completely fine? I mean they're not giving samples.

I'm not going to pretend that it's alright however you seem to miss the part where I said "very specific circumstances". Almost anyone can afford a $10 indie game but someone might have only $60 to spare once in a blue moon. I'm certainly not saying that someone should keep a game after they've decided one way or the other as to do so is certainly wrong. If I failed to get that across then clearly I should have gone through my post more carefully.

However, I will concede that it is largely invalid since unless all of the video streaming sites on the internet suddenly stop working in some bizarre accident. At least with Let's Play videos you can get a look at the content beforehand.

I understood your point quite specifically, and your clarification confirms what I understood. Your point is about price and the percieved "worth" of the game. I'm going to simplfy my point so we're both crystal clear on it. Even if you can only put $1 per week away for video games (so can't even afford one $60 video game a year) there is no excuse for piracy. If the publisher says there is no demo, you buy at your own risk then you very specifically have only 2 choices... buy it or don't buy it. Don't want to risk it, don't buy it. Piracy because you can't afford to risk a bad game isn't a valid reason, especially since once you have the pirated copy it'd be so easy to say "it's an ok game, but I don't think its worth $60, so I'll buy a copy in 6 months when its cheaper" and lets face it that's going to happen, perhaps not 100% of the time, but more often then not, and as you said with sites like youtube where people put up gameplay vids on pretty much everything the "$60 is too much to risk on a bad game" excuse just doesn't fly.

 

[Auron]

Dude I live in Australia and can recognise that the games I buy are luxury purchases. Price too high for you? Get a better job then come back, or just buy cheaper games.

If people kept paying 150 $ for games in Brazil the main market prices would still be the same, I know Russia pays very cheap(at least on Steam) nowadays as well, it wouldn't have changed either. While it's mostly because of external competition it changed. A single game used to be a month of minimum wage in the 90's, which my family and I never had any problem paying for but never agreed with either. If you think paying 80 dollars on a game is so preposterous(and it is, but a far better situation than what we're talking about.) clearly you need a better grasp on the situation in other nations(and I don't mean the US or Europe.) nor the right to be condescending about people's jobs.

Still, nowadays there's really no reason to pirate games like I said, unless there's no demo and you don't want to be scammed but I'd rather watch a let's play it's far less time consuming. With all the measures developers went to in the last few years there's no reason to pirate games on the pc anyway. LAN is all but dead, multiplayer requires keys and logins always online servers are rising. Funnily enough, xbox and wii piracy is rampant and even PS3's getting there while the PC users are usually considered far bigger culprits.

 

[J Tyran]

The way they delivered that trout to the face of the pirates was very well done, they earned a purchase from me. The pirates had no excuse here, the game had a demo and it was cheap. It was not from big publisher either so no reason for a protest download because of business practice.

All the excuses of the pirates fall to pieces here, they simply want something for nothing.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Leaving aside for a second the fact that this is a stunt, and a clever one at that, and imagining it's an actual game mechanic, I would have problems with the way it is portrayed. Piracy is not a blanket disadvantage. It can lead to more sales, more fans, and more coverage, to the point where some developers encourage piracy for this reason. Not everyone who pirates a game would have bought it otherwise, and in fact I personally wouldn't have bought this very game had I not wanted to see what the article was about. What I'm saying is not that piracy is always good, but that it has varied effects and a black or white portrayal like in this game should be avoided because it is neither black nor white.

 

[Gameguy20100]

I don't care what people say, Piracy Is theft and If you try to justify stealing something that was only about £7 your an asshole.

 

[Cyfu]

I think it's really funny. it serves them right.
Something they did that I liked was that they sent you a message ingame that thanks you for buying the game. It was really nice

 

[jklinders]

This changes nothing at all in the ethics of piracy to answer the question posted by the OP. The main difference is one dev is very cleverly manipulating other people's laziness and greed to get some free marketing. If you are downloading a cracked copy of a DRM free game from an indie dev that is selling it for peanuts...I think Jim Sterling compared that to raping a kitten in one of his videos. Sure he was talking about the humble bundle but if you are so useless that you can't pony up $8 for a video game...go to hell.

Also in regards to the couple of folks here who said that piracy never sank a developer. Iron Lore Entertainment would like to have a chat with you. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/81926-THQ-Creative-Director-Opens-Up-About-Iron-Lore]

Bad press from whiney pirates who got faulty cracked copies of their games hurt their sales before their games were even on the shelves. Dig deep for the full version of his rant, it's pretty eye opening.

Actually never mind. Full version of his post can be found here [http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?42663-Venting-my-frustrations-with-PC-game-dev]

I kinda know this is flame bait, but I'm not picking any fights here.

 

[Radoh]

I find it interesting, myself. Really good marketing campaign that also functions as a call to ethics. I'm actually planning to get the game, and had it not been for the big stink about Piracy I probably wouldn't have even noticed it.
I'm quite the fan of this type of anti-piracy, where you get screwed over in the actual game for doing it, like the infamous more enemies and game crashes/wipes your save data when you get to the final boss of Earthbound.

Additionally, as for justifying piracy thing, I feel that the only time this is an acceptable action is when it is physically impossible to actually get the game any other way. If you want a game, then you should pay for it because you want it. If you don't like the company that made it, then you shouldn't be playing their games.

 

[Tom Waits' hat]

Dude I live in Australia and can recognise that the games I buy are luxury purchases. Price too high for you? Get a better job then come back, or just buy cheaper games.

Exactly, there's always a choice not to buy it or buy it at later day when it's cheaper. It's all down to self-discipline. Gamers aren't exactly known for it though.

To be honest, I actually have more respect to those people who admit they pirate because they can, not making up bunch of excuses trying to justify their wrong-doing.

 

[aba1]

If you feel that it's justifiable to pirate an indie title that costs $8 and comes with an official demo, then the universe has every right to take an enormous shit on you.

Actually any title.

I whole heartedly agree. It is hard enough for indie developers without people pirating their titles.

 

[Windcaler]

IMO there are legitimate reasons to pirate a game. However they all pertain to cases where you bought the game and the pirated version is actually superior or where you cant legally purchase the game. Already own the game, sure get yourself a pirated copy you already own it. Cracked DRM Im totally ok with. Fixed bugs, fine with it. Impossible to find it (in the case of older games) completely fine. Wasnt released in your country or otherwise region locked so you cant legally buy the game, pick it up. Pirate a game that you can legally buy and is exactly the same as the retail version, congratulations for being an "expletive deleted" for not supporting the devs that put so much hard work into a game. Note that I am not suggesting people pirate games in these situations, Im only expressing what I believe are legitimate reasons to pirate a copy

The fallacy surrounding Piracy is that every pirated copy equals a lost sale and thats just not true. In fact with some games its been proven that pirated copies actually increased sales through a form of marketing. I actually think game dev tycoon is one of those games that benefited from piracy as a marketing tool. That said, I dont want to come off as saying Piracy isnt a problem. It is, but its far less of a problem then we often make it out to be

Some people will say theres a zero tolerance policy when it comes to piracy but the thing zero tolerance policies have always had in common is they make zero sense in the long run. There is no single answer to the good or evil of piracy just as there is no single outcome of what it can do to a game or even a company.

 

[NightmareExpress]

This is the kind of thing that you find cute and amazing upon first glance.
But then you look deeper into it. The title is indeed crafted by a very small independent team (two brothers, was it?), but they basically plagiarized everything present within the title from something released in '97 and re-released in 2010. Yes, that would be Game Dev Story.

They then use the DRM that they made to call out pirates.
Or in other words, get free marketing from the press and people who are now aware of the game.
I would definitely applause them for that if the first paragraph I typed wasn't true. When you put the two together, they seem somewhat scummy.

I hope they find creative and fiscal success with their next title.
Until then, I'll just go back to playing my purchased copy of Game Dev Story and not pay attention to this.
Which is what most people should do rather than pirate it.