The show regularly plays fast and loose with location. It's how we got the amazing teleporting Littlefinger in season 2. This probably won't happen in the books, as Euron is nowhere near in the same situation as he is in the show (also his two brothers actually existed. Seriously, Victorion Greyjoy is supposed to be the one sailing east to see Dany.)RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Game of Thrones Season 7 discussion thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND)
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Everything between Cersei and Jamie and Euron and Daenerys confused the piss out of me. So we're just glossing over the fact that Cersei just possibly committed the biggest act of mass murder Westeros has ever seen? And Jamie is just okay with that? Cersei just did the thing that Jamie killed his king for, and he just shrugs it off?RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Also, how does everyone know that Tyrion is working for Dany? Was he really just walking abovedeck and people just saw him?
And another also, how does Dany just walk into Dragonstone and be like "lol dis mine now"? Did they ever explain why it's empty?
I felt really confused that episode, I could have used some more explanation
Well, thing is, most people aren't ok with it. There's a reason the Tyrells are no longer on speaking terms with the Lannisters. The only people left are people directly loyal to the Lannisters. It's not a huge stretch to believe those who are still loyal are still loyal in part because of fear. Don't want to be the next person on the fire. Also, Jaimie has conflicting emotions due to the fact that he's sticking his dick in Cersei. The Mad King had been basically been holding Jaimie as a hostage to keep Tywin and line. He saw the Mad King torture people to death, had to stand outside his room wile he raped his wife, and was finally pushed over the edge when he tried to burn the city to the ground. He hasn't quite been pushed over the edge yet, and had a lot more reason to hate the Mad King. But mark my words, he's being pushed. He's clearly losing faith in Cersei. And it was foretold that she would be killed by a brother.DrownedAmmet said:
Dany isn't exactly subtle and he's her Hand of the Queen, word probably would've gotten out about it one way or another.
Stannis abandoned it. And as demonstrated by the Battle of Blackwater, Cersei is a shit tactician.
That mostly depends on Stannis being present to guarantee it. If not and a bunch of horny soldiers drunk on victory found them without Stannis knowing of them yet, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't pass up helping themselves to some highborn ladies in the heat of the moment. Stannis might punish the culprits afterwards, but that wouldn't help the victims then and there.inu-kun said:
Also, remember Cersei knows about the last time a rebellion took King's Landing and how that went down for the women and children. She feared it enough to poison herself and her children.
There are no Trolls in this world, you are referring to Giants.trunkage said:
But to be fair, Trolls and Giants are usually intertwined in their portrayals. Giants though tend to look more Human looking.
I mean what you're saying is probably right, but I'm a simple idiot viewer, I need to be shown that. They could have cut Samwell's puke-track Montage short and included some explanationerttheking said:
Jaime: "Well, our forces at Dragonstone should be able to hold for at least a day or two. "
Cersei:"..."
Jaime: "You never put forces on Dragonstone, did you? "
Cersei: "I was busy!"
Edit: and also, if she is such a shit tactician, how does she know that? Just tell me that her spies or lookouts saw a dwarf moving around on the boat or something! They make it seem like she was watching the show and that's how they know that stuff
True. I hate to beat an old drum but "the books did it better." At least, if the books are going this path, it's up in the air right now.DrownedAmmet said:
In the books, Stannis left a garrison at both Dragon Stone and Storm's End, 300 at Storm's End and around fifty or so at Dragon Stone. 2,000 men, led by Loras Tyrell, were meant to take it. Cersei intentionally gave command to Loras in the hopes that he would do something stupid and get himself killed. She mostly got her wish. Instead of sieging the palace, he opted to storm it. 1,000 men died, most of them knights who were loyal to Tommen, and Loras was indeed put on death's door, so any forces left there would mainly be Tyrell forces who would have little interest in holding it if the explosion in King's Landing still happens in the books. Hell, the Tyrells were also sieging Storm's End at the time, and when they learned that Margarie had been arrested, they abandoned the siege to head back to King's Landing. So in the books, for the time being, Stannis' forces still hold Storm's End, but not Dragon Stone.
Plus there's also the fact that, in the books, Lannister forces couldn't get to Dragonstone even if they wanted to, as Cersei gave command of the royal navy to a bastard who she had the hots for because he vaguely resembled Rhaegar Targaryen, and when she was arrested by the Faith of the Seven, he decided to take the entire royal navy and go pirating. Yeah in the books, Cersei utterly went off the deep end (Burned the Tower of the Hand to the ground because she thought Tyrion was in the walls) and dug herself a damn deep hole.
Books have been much better for the past like four seasons, but the show easily could have been less worse if they just explained why stuff happened.erttheking said:
Like excluding the Dragonstone stuff makes sense for the show so they don't have to spend all that money on something that could be resolved a bit simpler, but they should throw us a fricken bone and tell us why
I shouldn't have to rely on "Cersei is an idiot" to fill in plot holes
Okay so the first episode has been released and well it's just a theory but i think the prophecy that Cersie will be killed by her younger brother is going to happen via arya stark taking identity of Jamie because even though Jamie is a changed man he still can't take up th courage to kill Cersie himself.
What you guys think about my theory?
What you guys think about my theory?
Well look, it's a TV show not a book. You can't possibly explain every single detail in a TV show like you can in the books. You just don't have the time for it. The books already have a lot more side-story on Dragonstone that the show didn't get time for. I'm sure the books will have a round-up of the sparrow storyline. If you want the full story, read the books. It's not really an indictment for the show to gloss over certain things, because every TV show does that.RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
That said, I think the first episode was a bit liberal in its use of time. I don't mean like Baelish's teleportation device or anything, I mean screen time that it devoted to actual plot points. Not a fat lot happened in that episode. I was expecting a bit more pace considering we've only got seven episodes per season now. It was a setup episode, sure, and not a bad one. But this is the seventh season; do we really need more setup? Think right back to episode 1 season 1; that was a setup episode, and that still managed to provide a bunch of genuine plot points that moved things forward. We're beyond the point of need for a setup; we needed to get the pace going again.
It's more likely that they'll end up fighting over it for most of the season and then only team up right at the end.Samtemdo8 said:
I expect:AlbeliSasha said:
Jaime does kill Cersei once she goes full Mad King and threatens to burn down King's Landing rather than let Daenaerys conquer it, because it would be almost painful from a narrative perspective if he didn't re-enact the defining moment of his life while turning on the love of his life. Then he gets killed by the Mountain or maybe commits suicide or something.
Arya will try to kill Cersei, but will end up fighting the Mountain, resulting in the most one-sided swordfight in history right up until Arya wins because she's great.
Arya will try to kill Cersei, but will end up fighting the Mountain, resulting in the most one-sided swordfight in history right up until Arya wins because she's great.
I would be expecting a scene where some peasants come out rioting at the gates and chanting "ey, you *****, you blew up the Sept of Baelor and killed like two hundred people" and then Cersei sics the Mountain on them or something. And Jaime is watching and being clearly uncomfortable, but Cersei's all "mwa ha ha evil queen gloat."DrownedAmmet said:
I mean, I can assume that all of that happened off-screen, but it's weird that the show would skip over it.
That whole scene was bizarre to me. I mean, sure, it was a great scene. There's no dialogue, just Dany slowly walking up to the place of her birth to signify her seizing her heritage. Scenery porn and such.DrownedAmmet said:
But...there are no guards? None of Stannis' old bannermen? Not even a token force of servants left to keep the place clean? No bandits or squatters going "hey, this is a huge fucking castle, maybe we can hide out the winter here?" No Lannisters? Why was it abandoned? If it was abandoned, how is it so clean?
And what if it wasn't abandoned? Daenaerys just lands on one boat with like, four guards, and starts walking. With her chief general, her spymaster, and her Hand all just following along in one convenient group. If there had been a few guys with crossbows manning that gate, Daenaerys' invasion would have been decapitated before it began.
It needed a scene where some leftover Stannis bannermen see the fleet coming in and very quickly piss off.
What about a scene in which three fucking massive dragons fly over the castle prior to them landing. I mean yeah it didn;t show it in detail but frankly if I was the part of the small remaining force that held that castle and I saw three massive dragons fly over I may just have enough time to change my breeches before I fucked right off.
You can also take in to consideration that it is made very clear that Stannis is not a loved leader, he is followed because his mean respect his ability to lead (well in the books, in the TV show he goes full retard) but chances are once he died whatever men he had, especially the ones left at the castle would have grabbed what they could and would have fucked off.
As to why Cersei never made a move on Dragonstone despite Stannis having been dead for a good while. Well I am sure it's made clear throughout the books that the location isn;t actually worth anything, Stannis bemoans his appointment there constantly seeing it as a slight rather than an honour, so that suggests it has very little in the way of tactical advantage, especially since the bulk of her forces were actually Tyrell men and those that aren't are more likely to be shoring up defence around King's Landing rather than trying to hold a tactically worthless castle.
Of course you then have Cersei going total mad. She's surrounded on all sides by enemies who could march over land to get to her, her enemies derive their supply chain from the lands that surround them so what does she do, teams up with a group of people well know for sucking hard when it comes to land based combat but they do have a huge amount of ships... great except that the ships are next to worthless if all your enemies need to do is march to your gates. Of course in the books Euron has a trump card that so far hasn't been mentioned in the TV show.