Game Theory: Are SMITE's Goddesses Too Sexy?

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Jake Martinez

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Short answer to question: No.

Longer answer:

The question should really be is "Are SMITE's Goddesses too sexy for me?" Only you, as an individual, using your own subjective tastes and morality can make that decision. We have a long and proud tradition in western society of valuing, if not art itself, the right of artists to express themselves freely, and while we often do not appreciate what they produce (for instance, if anyone remembers the Robert Maplethorpe installation a couple decades back with his Jesus in urine piece) we often vigorously defend their rights to express themselves.

Any criticism of any kind that equates into an artist not creating the art they want to create, ought to be called out for the repressive fascism that it is. Leave that shit in Nazi Germany, it's not fit for modern western democracies.
 

Baresark

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It was a great episode. As someone who studied Fine Arts (which does include understanding the depictions in classical antiquity), he is right on the ball. The issue with depictions of women's bodies has really reached a head these days though. To the point it's fought not on any grounds other than that is what people feel needs to be done, just kind of knee jerk. It's weird because I almost feel like when all of that was going on the people fighting the game were in many ways hurting their own cause. They clearly didn't understand what was being done with the characters and they clearly are, in many cases, not familiar with depictions of their own religious figures from their most ancient periods. There was just no critical thought at all, just the knee jerk reactions that the characters were hyper sexualized.

Edit: People are going feel about things they way they want to feel. So it's really the type of thing you need to say "whatever" when it comes up. No one is up for an actual discussion on it. It's all about, "these are my feelings and that is all that matters." I'm Ok with agreeing to disagree. When I don't like something, I just ignore it.
 

Link Satonaka

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LazyAza said:
Its not about the nudity or lack of nudity or the basic element of sexuality in general excusing any existence of it in a modern context period geezus. Those classical artworks are sexualized in a very specific old and respectful-
I agree the lack of nudity has little bearing on sexualization, but the rest of your comment is naive and short sighted. So is the whole controversy, though.
1) Those classical works weren't old when they were created.
2) You can bet your bottom they are sexualized in the ideal of the time to the best of the artist's ability. In a few hundred years and several civilizations later, our drawn/rendered porn might be considered "tasteful nudity" because the art style will appear archaic and the ideal bodily proportions will have changed.
3) Only in a modern context do we assume "portrayed as sexy" is mutually exclusive with respect. Portrayed beauty and sexuality was respected before it was considered objectifying.

So we have a modern(1) re-imagination of ancient female figures whose images have been updated to fit today's ideal(2)

Yes, they are being sexualized- but for me to consider this modern depiction disrespectful(3) you'd have to prove they originally were not already sexualized in the context of their time and culture.

I'm not defending the designers here. They almost certainly did it for profit, not for artistic integrity. But the idea that sexualizing already sexualized figures = disrespect seems like a load of BS to me, and thus this game deserves no more flack than any other game with sexy women.
 

zumbledum

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so if something is historically and culturally over sexed to start with , then its ok to do it now? how many of those pictures and scultpures were made by women or from cultures where men and women were equal?, just curious, not that i disagree i just think oddly you actually made the other sides point more than your own.
 

XDSkyFreak

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I never had time to get into smite, that said I've followed the game from it's icneption, reading up on the site lore, browsing the art gallery and watching some streams here and there telling myself "One day I'll install this and play it". What has happened to this game is the perfect example of why modern society is fucked up the ass over sex. The way7 some bigoted close minded ass-hats with no actual fucking knoledge of history ***** and moan about the character designs in this game is just ... argh! And the only thing sadder is that hi-rez actually gave these fucking clowns the time of say and altered their designs.

So ok, let's do this: All these female goddesses, no matter the most bestial aspects some may have, all share a common theme: somewhere in their story they must represent the pinacle of a female trait. They were ment to be visions of the perfect female traits, as seen by their respective societies at the time. So what do you do when you bring those ideas in a modern game? You update these depictions to represent modern visions of perfect female traits. Most common among all ancient goddesses was beauty/sexy-ness. Where does the bullshit sping up here? Aparently it's considered exploitation to show what an idealized female body would look like to our modern society. Because aparently you can be morbidly obese whale, if you have a vagina you must be allowed to think you are perfect and you must not be shown what an actual fucking healthy woman would look like. Because aparently beeing a sexy woman that is not afraid of her sexuality and accepts it and has no problems showing it labels you a whore in today's prudish society of political correct bullshit. Aha ... fuck that noise.
The second pieace of bullshit in all this is this: It's a fucking f2p game. No one is forcing you to play it. NO ONE! Got a problem with it's art? Boycot it. Don't play it. Don;t be an entitled litttle shithead and demand something you clearly have no interest in ever touching be changed because it "offends" you. You know what? Life sucks! Wear a helmet. If you are such a cry baby you must demand the entire world change it's tune because you felt offended, then go crawl back up your mom's vagina. Smite isn't some state-mandated game that all people must play. Chose not to play it, and let those who do fucking play it enjoy their game.
The final and worst piece of bullshit about the game is this: The counter Kali crap, which someone before me brought up: Bastet. She started out a little strange, but feline, but then lo and behold, the players thought she was ugly and complained no one was playing her. So they make her a sexy lady with feline features (kind-off like an anime version of bastet). But then people who have no fucking connection to the game see this and cry foul like the pussies did with Kali and then the shit never ends.

Ultimately what do we learn from here? That if Hi-Rez actually had some common sense they would have taken one look at all this crap and said: "Don't like our art style? Don't play the game. Shit, you guys aren't even playing the game, why the hell would we change for you?" as for the Bastet scenario, what I would have done was straight make her a furry character. But of course, it would be "pornofied" because somewhere in the corners of the internet a sad 14 year old who just discovered paint made a naked version of her and posted it on deviant art. Yeah ... Bottom line: Smite's goddesses to me look like what would have happened if someone in modern times decided to invent goddesses based around the same ideeas the ancient people did.
 

Tsun Tzu

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Nods Respectfully Towards You said:
Wasn't their a huge clusterfuck of a thread about this not that long ago?
Yep!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.864640-Tried-to-fight-sexism-in-Smite-Got-insulted-into-oblivion-Do-players-WANT-sexism?page=1

If you'd like to know what THIS thread will be about, feel free to look in there.
 

Baddamobs

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LostGryphon said:
Nods Respectfully Towards You said:
Wasn't their a huge clusterfuck of a thread about this not that long ago?
Yep!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.864640-Tried-to-fight-sexism-in-Smite-Got-insulted-into-oblivion-Do-players-WANT-sexism?page=1

If you'd like to know what THIS thread will be about, feel free to look in there.

...Huh...so history really DOES repeat. Even faster then what I think is traditional.

In any case: one could argue that they actually toned DOWN some of the goddess, since a lot of them are completely naked in 90% of their source material. That said, I think that they maybe went a little over kill on some of the goddesses, but the fact I could guess who a lot of them were from just looking at them says they're doing something right to me at least.
 

zumbledum

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Nods Respectfully Towards You said:
zumbledum said:
so if something is historically and culturally over sexed to start with , then its ok to do it now? how many of those pictures and scultpures were made by women or from cultures where men and women were equal?, just curious, not that i disagree i just think oddly you actually made the other sides point more than your own.
So wait, you're saying they shouldn't be using the source material?
no im saying his argument that its true to the source material so it cant be sexist, is using an assumption that the source wasnt sexist, without showing any evidence to prove it , infact as he showed a lot of images of paintings and sculptures all done by men from times and cultures where women were not as equal as maybe they are now is actually proving the opposite point to what he intended.
 

f1r2a3n4k5

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I hugely disagree with this video.

True. True. You demonstrated that it could be argued that the designs were true to myth (which, I still think it debatable.)

There's still the much more real issue of "Is this trivializing the Hindu faith?"

Can you imagine the outcry if they featured "sexy Mary of Nazareth?" Her special abilities are "Immaculate Conception" and "Born without Sin." You could even show her in "wet garment" look that was popular during the Roman empire. Technically, it would be true to the art-style and origin, but it wouldn't be handling the material in a mature and culturally respectable way.

Need I even suggest what would happen had they represented Islamic figures in their game?

Now, before I get the FREE SPEECH argument yelled at me. Does it not seem like either all religions should be up for grabs or none of them? Particularly when it is a religion with a following of a billion people?

Religious depictions in art are an EXTREMELY sensitive subject and not homogenous even within religions. Many religions have deep-seated Iconoclastic tendencies, INCLUDING movements directed at Hindu art. (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm )

tl;dr: While the game design may respect the art of the mythological characters, it still does not respect the sensitive issue of differing opinions on the representation of religious figures (i.e. an issue that has inspired wars).
 

blackrave

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f1r2a3n4k5 said:
I hugely disagree with this video.

True. True. You demonstrated that it could be argued that the designs were true to myth (which, I still think it debatable.)

There's still the much more real issue of "Is this trivializing the Hindu faith?"

Can you imagine the outcry if they featured "sexy Mary of Nazareth?" Her special abilities are "Immaculate Conception" and "Born without Sin." You could even show her in "wet garment" look that was popular during the Roman empire. Technically, it would be true to the art-style and origin, but it wouldn't be handling the material in a mature and culturally respectable way.

Need I even suggest what would happen had they represented Islamic figures in their game?

Now, before I get the FREE SPEECH argument yelled at me. Does it not seem like either all religions should be up for grabs or none of them? Particularly when it is a religion with a following of a billion people?

Religious depictions in art are an EXTREMELY sensitive subject and not homogenous even within religions. Many religions have deep-seated Iconoclastic tendencies, INCLUDING movements directed at Hindu art. (see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm )

tl;dr: While the game design may respect the art of the mythological characters, it still does not respect the sensitive issue of differing opinions on the representation of religious figures (i.e. an issue that has inspired wars).
True.
I think better solution would be making game featuring NotMithology (heavily inspired, but with different names, and 100% denial from devs)
Not because I'm personally against using mythological characters, but because a lot of people still believe in fairy tales and for them that would be insulting.
And why would you be an asshole to someone if it isn't exactly necessary?

P.S. Jesus as a support character? I would play him (I prefer support roles). Possible weapon? Only one weapon could do it- whip. Does close to no damage, but stuns for few sec.
 

sexy=sexist

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So is sexy bad? Is sexy and sexist the same thing? I personally think this old line of thought needs to just die already... on the other hand I do think to many women are only allowed to be sexy.
Kinda reminds me of moviebobs pink is not the problem video.
 

Oroboros

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Feb 21, 2011
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Wow, that was a godawful video, and hugely misrepresented the side of folks who have a problem with this stuff.

Apparently mythological Kali dripping with blood, with her tongue lolling out, tusks, a necklace of freshly severed heads, and a skirt made out of severed limbs is equal in sexiness and has the same context as Smite's bikini-clad vixen.

Uh...alright...

This entire video is basically "False Equivalence" in a nutshell.

Neith's Outfit? Looks *nothing* like her historical depictions. Frankly it's laughable that the author would claim that putting her in what amounts to a stripper outfit (complete with heels) amounted to making her more modest. There is no equivalency between those two outfits, because the Egyptian equivalent to what she is wearing in SMITE would be *benign naked*

And Aphrodite? REALLY? She was pretty much the one goddess that NOBODY had a problem with the depiction of. Way to go for the low-hanging fruit to build up a strawman. What about Hel or Nemesis?

And Boiling down female mythological figures to Fertility/Sex objects? From an anthropological view, that's just about the most flat-out ignorant thing I have ever heard on the Escapist. Athena, Hel, Nemesis etc *all goddesses in the game* pretty much fly in the face of that, yet are all depicted (less so Athena) as being incredibly sexualized.

This piece is an excellent example in Cherry picking, false equivalency, and the strawman argument, but utterly worthless in every other regard.
 

Fangface74

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It would be quicker just to do a video on why taking offence in the first place doesn't mean anything.

Don't like it?...(say it with me people)...DON'T BUY IT!

(especially if it's free :p)
 

sexy=sexist

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Fangface74 said:
It would be quicker just to do a video on why taking offence in the first place doesn't mean anything.

Don't like it?...(say it with me people)...DON'T BUY IT!

(especially if it's free :p)
I don't know. I see nothing wrong with campaigning to get a game to change in a way I would enjoy more (buff warlock class plz). I take issue when people try and tell me sexy is wrong/bad and we should feel ashamed for enjoying it.