Game Theory: Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion

[MatthewPatrick13]

Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion

Final Fantasy games feature a lot of religious symbolism. But if you look closely, those references to religion actually form a very interesting pattern; the Final Fantasy games are actually against organized religion...and even the concept of God himself.

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[scw55]

To me, it comes across as "human being" are flawed. They are not perfect.
Which means you need to be careful when listening to what other people say to you. You are not ever entirely sure if what they're saying is sincere, or if they're a person who is partially corrupted.

I think the use of religious imagery creates an impact. Religious imagery has been designed to be impactful, and it carries a lot of associations. Therefore, the use of its assets in other media is a quick way to stir a reaction, even if the person playing/watching/what ever is 100% hardcore atheistic.

Basically: "be careful; blind faith is dangerous" and "religious imagery carries impact".

 

[Raika]

There's a way to present a theory that everyone figured out years ago without coming across as infuriatingly, intolerably smug. Let me know when you figure it out.

 

[LaughingAtlas]

There's a way to present a theory that everyone figured out years ago without coming across as infuriatingly, intolerably smug. Let me know when you figure it out.

Pretty much this, I made the "Screw Churches" connection when I'd played through both FFX and FF Tactics, and figured the most likely reason for that plotline was because they wanted the player fighting the biggest, most powerful evil they could for most climactic impact. What has more magical superpower for an exciting final battle than a god-like entity? [sub]Some of the optional bosses, but we're probably not supposed to pay too much attention to that.[/sub]

Not that it matters to me, I've been a fan of deicide since God of War.

 

[TehChuckles]

If you want to watch the original upload. here's a year old link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhiWw3pzQk

 

[medv4380]

Stupid Western concept of Religion. Most Religions outside of Western Judao-Islamic-Christian religions don't have a concept of "Our god is the one and most perfect god there is". FF6 was a good example of Christianity vs Japanese Spirit worship. Unless you're going to claim that Spirit Worship isn't religious the claim that it's Anti Religious is clearly false. The expert explained it right Game Theory got it wrong, and Game Theory clearly didn't understand the experts explanation.

Under Game Theory's logic you'd have to conclude the Norse Religion was Anti Religion because Odin as one of the most untrustworthy figures to the point of being called Odin Oath-Breaker. However, the Norse Religion is a religion and can't exactly be Anti Itself. Clearly having evil manipulative creator gods doesn't make you anti-religion. In fact, given the trace record it's almost a prerequisite.

 

[Alterego-X]

Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion? Maybe because it's from the least religious country on Earth?

This seems like an overrated focus on one particular game, that actually fits pretty well into it's cultural standards. It would be more difficult to find an anime, manga, visual novel, light novel, or JRPG, that approves of organized religion, than one that disapproves of it.

 

[Rellik San]

Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion? Maybe because it's from the least religious country on Earth?

I didn't know Final Fantasy was from Norway!

Eh anti-religious video games, no surprise there. Most video game creators tend to be of a liberal descent in regards to things like religion and politics, well... good video game makers and no that isn't an accusation, it's an observation, all I care about is good gaming.

 

[Baresark]

I defer to John Green on this one:

"You should not seek truth in fiction, you are doing a disservice to the fiction"

It's just a game series that finds some of it's material from very rich sources of ideas.

But, I never thought about it that way, so clearly my opinion is biased (as are all opinions). It makes some good points but it kind of comes off more like the folly of man in deciding the fate of the world to me. In most of them, it's about a flawed person becoming an almighty god. But, good vid, keep them coming.

 

[AmberSword]

I really don't like the game theorist, like someone said they present valid opinions, but they act so smug like their the first ones who figured it out and everyone else was in the dark.

I still watched their videos on youtube because they were bearable, but then there was this episode where they talked about pasta sauce, I was literally screaming JIM STERLING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR at my computer screen, especially because Jim presented it in a much better fashion at a much earlier date, and didn't get half the views that they did, then i never watched their videos again.

To quote Invoker: They believe themselves to be a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance.

 

[Triaed]

Or it could all be, you know, a work of fiction. With no connection whatsoever to any religion or stance for/against it

 

[Tanneseph]

1) Um, yeah. If you could tone the smug down just a little, that would be fantastic.

2) Was this episode considered more a teaser? It told FF fans things they'd known for years, but then you just hit a list of things that were dabbling in the genuinely interesting/new as potential future topics. Frustrating! ;p

My vote is for any/all of those topics, please, especially if you can just tone the smug down a hair.

 

[sir neillios]

Why Final Fantasy is Anti-Religion? Maybe because it's from the least religious country on Earth?

Japan enjoys full religious freedom based on Article 20 of its Constitution. Upper estimates suggest that 84-96 percent of the Japanese population subscribe to Buddhism or Shinto

From wikipedia.

An interesting video, now that I think about it, I can't think of that many videogames that have had much positive to say about large-scale organised religions.

 

[Nieroshai]

Sigh... why is this old, mildly comedic and informative at times but otherwise tedious and mean-spirited parody show being picked up this long after its original youtube uploading? I follow that this has gone on for a few weeks or so, but the point remains, why this and why here? Jim and Yahtzee had to at least make new material when they signed on...

EDIT: how much does the Escapist pay for re-uploads of old content? If it's as much as the OC contributors get, they should really fight for a better contract.

 

[seiler88]

What gets under my skin is that "Nuke the Church" is the only plot we ever seem to get.

I mean is it too much to ask for a Good monotheistic religion in a game?

 

[Schadrach]

There's a way to present a theory that everyone figured out years ago without coming across as infuriatingly, intolerably smug. Let me know when you figure it out.

To be fair, this video is originally from the beginning of 2013. I'm not sure why it's "new content" here. MattPat has a fairly lengthy series doing basically this for various topics (like Pokemon and evolution, Mario and communism, sexualization of Smite deities, etc, etc, etc).

 

[Nieroshai]

Stupid Western concept of Religion. Most Religions outside of Western Judao-Islamic-Christian religions don't have a concept of "Our god is the one and most perfect god there is". FF6 was a good example of Christianity vs Japanese Spirit worship. Unless you're going to claim that Spirit Worship isn't religious the claim that it's Anti Religious is clearly false. The expert explained it right Game Theory got it wrong, and Game Theory clearly didn't understand the experts explanation.

Under Game Theory's logic you'd have to conclude the Norse Religion was Anti Religion because Odin as one of the most untrustworthy figures to the point of being called Odin Oath-Breaker. However, the Norse Religion is a religion and can't exactly be Anti Itself. Clearly having evil manipulative creator gods doesn't make you anti-religion. In fact, given the trace record it's almost a prerequisite.

Judaism, islam, and Christianity are middle-eastern religions. Catholicism and all of its spawn are western. I don't mean to nitpick, but misspeech tends to beget misinformation VERY easily here on the webz.

 

[Nieroshai]

What gets under my skin is that "Nuke the Church" is the only plot we ever seem to get.

I mean is it too much to ask for a Good monotheistic religion in a game?

But Father Evans clearly is a man of healing and light and totally doesn't have a secret torture dungeon where his knights drag heretics...

If you can name the game, I owe you a cookie. Not that I can give it to you.

 

[McKitten]

Eh, i recommend replaying the game or maybe reading a transcript or something before creating an episode like this. The story was completely butchered.
Most important: in the actual story in the game, Yevon, the organized religion, and Yevon the god-like summoner have actually nothing much to do with one another. Sin was created by Yevon as a last effort super-weapon in a war between two cities (Zanarkand & Bevelle) that his side (Zanarkand) was losing. And Sin serves both as a weapon and as a way to keep the civilization intact, since the people that died for it live on in some sort of dream world inside.
The Yevon church on the other hand was created by the other side in the war (Bevelle), after they realized that they had technically won (their opponents all being dead) but they had left that unstoppable superweapon rampaging around. It is quite an important revelation in the story when the immense irony is revealed that the city of Bevelle, home of the Yevon church, was actually the side using technology in the war, and was forced to adopt the methods of their opponents (summoning) to survive even after they had won the war.
So the first 3 minutes of the video are pretty much dead wrong.
While the church of Yevon is displayed as very corrupt, that's not surprising, they're the all-round bad guy in the story. The overall tone however is much less one of anti-religion than of anti-war, or rather anti-human hubris, with the game telling multiple storylines where the theme is that human lust for power/wealth/advancement etc. is what leads to their downfall.

Next time when attempting to analyse a storyline, make sure you've actually paid attention when watching it first.

 

[medv4380]

Stupid Western concept of Religion. Most Religions outside of Western Judao-Islamic-Christian religions don't have a concept of "Our god is the one and most perfect god there is". FF6 was a good example of Christianity vs Japanese Spirit worship. Unless you're going to claim that Spirit Worship isn't religious the claim that it's Anti Religious is clearly false. The expert explained it right Game Theory got it wrong, and Game Theory clearly didn't understand the experts explanation.

Under Game Theory's logic you'd have to conclude the Norse Religion was Anti Religion because Odin as one of the most untrustworthy figures to the point of being called Odin Oath-Breaker. However, the Norse Religion is a religion and can't exactly be Anti Itself. Clearly having evil manipulative creator gods doesn't make you anti-religion. In fact, given the trace record it's almost a prerequisite.

Judaism, islam, and Christianity are middle-eastern religions. Catholicism and all of its spawn are western. I don't mean to nitpick, but misspeech tends to beget misinformation VERY easily here on the webz.

Maybe you should bother to look up what are nitpick [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_religion]. Or would you have preferred the Abrahamic reference?