Gamers make bad feminists

[Phisi]

To be honest, I kind of ignore what most feminists say ever since I discovered that this person is a feminist: thefemitheist.blogspot.com Go look under April and you will find her amazing reasons as to why all men should be castrated. I am not joking. So yes I would agree that I as a gamer make a bad feminist because I think that lady is pants on head retarded irrelevant of my views on the trailer.

 

[Phasmal]

To be honest, I kind of ignore what most feminists say ever since I discovered that this person is a feminist: thefemitheist.blogspot.com Go look under April and you will find her amazing reasons as to why all men should be castrated. I am not joking. So yes I would agree that I as a gamer make a bad feminist because I think that lady is pants on head retarded irrelevant of my views on the trailer.

One feminist is bad = all feminists are bad?

I dont understand this, with everything else everyone seems to acknowledge that the vocal minority is stupid but a minority but with feminists people will hold up one person and go `THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ALL LIKE!!!!!`

But whatever, think what you like I suppose.

 

[Phisi]

One feminist is bad = all feminists are bad?

I dont understand this, with everything else everyone seems to acknowledge that the vocal minority is stupid but a minority but with feminists people will hold up one person and go `THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ALL LIKE!!!!!`

But whatever, think what you like I suppose.

Although this is a minority of feminists it comes under the heading of feminist. There are feminists I do agree with but whenever someone uses the term feminists I have to assume it could also be this person. The term is meaningless to me now, it would be like having an article saying that members of the human race supports the Nazis and that members of the human race don't support the Nazis. The use of the human race in that is useless as it doesn't represent anything common between its members (besides being human) similarly the opinion of feminists is not very close anymore, even on issues of equality as seen with that person so for me, I can't take it seriously because it doesn't represent anything for me. So for me this thread title should be "Gamers make bad my-ideological-view-of-feminism-feminists"

 

[wetnap]

Or rather, feminists these days are all about getting special treatment just so they can 'feel' equal to men even though they do less work, are weaker, etc.

Feminists in the past were good. They were more like what I call equalists. The 'new' feminists of today are the bitches that I dislike/hate. I should have been more clear on that I guess.

Also, maybe read up a little more on what misogyny is. Because I don't even see how you came to that conclusion.

Because in your point of view, women have to work and do a lot in order to be worthy of equal rights, whereas men automatically qualify for better treatment by the fact that they are men, regardless of how much work they do.

This is denigration of women, therefore falls under misogyny. Hopefully you see the link.

The fact is there should be equality of opportunity, but when folks pretend thtere should be equality of result or that all people are inherently equal in interest and ability, that is where things get perverse. It has happened a lot with the feminist movement where inconvenient facts are swept under the rug in order to claim inequality only when convenient. 9 out of 10 prisoners are men for instance, not everything is rosy about being men, drop out rates and grades in higher education and the rest are all worse for guys, you never hear about this though because apparently only women have a hard time in the world. But if some stat were as distorted as the 9 out of 10 prisoner are men but against women there would be outrage and hysteria, but since its just affecting men, its just accepted as a given.

Men do not qualify for better treatment, as shown by the figures of incarceration, if society were really sexist in mens favor, surely the system would be rigged to make sure men would stay out of prison!

Like it or not the standards are just different, a bit lower for women in some cases. If a woman is made to cry then there is always someone else to blame, for a man, thats just thin skin unless he has some very legitimate reason for it. If a man is successful in life and makes a lot of cash or has status he gets womens attention, the same doesn't work so well the other way around. Condi rice is not beating off suitors, its just how things work, and thats why we have some disparity in work place success, you can't discount that there are different motivations for each gender. That doesn't mean things are harder for women though does it. They have different options is all.

There just aren't as many hardcore female gamers out there, just a fact. So what? If anything women are over represented as characters in games vs their interest as a gamer base. The entire enterprise of trying to frame things as feminist tends to be a patronizing one, imagine if people described male characters in the same fawning patronizing tone as they do for the women, gushing with praise over the the character as being strong and independent and all that. That kind of stuff sends the opposite message from intended in the end. You might as well be a fat bird screaming I'm fat and I'm beautiful at that point, you aren't convincing anyone of anything.

In gaming "journalism" and media women are massively overrepresented. Every show has a bunch of eye candy journalists, xplay, aots, ign etc, the number of women is always disprortionate, when there are presenters you can bet one of the two will be female, regardless of whether that matches any reality in gamer populations at all. and no, farmville doesn't count

The entire question of whether gamers make good feminists is questionable because the term is kind of toxic now. Its been taken over by women who mindlessly repeat ideology rather than think for themselves. They can look around, see the total disinterest in sports such as the WNBA amongst their female friends and even themselves and still go ahead and claim sexism when the league is failing to gain support. Gamers however are people who do give support based on merit. If you can deliver you get kudos. That is meritocracy, and that is fine, equality of opportunity, not of result. The problem is feminism got infected with ideology that doesn't care about merit when it is convenient, instead becoming a special interest group interested only in quotas and gaining power by playing the victim. So gamers who support a meritocracy cannot necessarily call themselves feminist.

 

[Squidbulb]

The people I hate are the kind of "feminists" who refuse to believe that women have anything better than men, and will not accept and kind of female fictional character that isn't absolutely perfect. There's nothing wrong with having one dumb housewife, because it's not like those kinds of people don't exist in real life. The problem would be if all of them were like that, but they aren't.
In the same way, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of sex appeal here and there, as long as that's not the only type of character that exists. In tons of cartoons and tv shows you'll see the "dumb dad" stereotype, or an attractive, muscular, action movie star, and there's nothing wrong with those. Yet for some reason the female equivalents of these are treated with disgust, because as we all know in real life all women are perfect.

 

[Schadrach]

To be honest, I kind of ignore what most feminists say ever since I discovered that this person is a feminist: thefemitheist.blogspot.com Go look under April and you will find her amazing reasons as to why all men should be castrated. I am not joking. So yes I would agree that I as a gamer make a bad feminist because I think that lady is pants on head retarded irrelevant of my views on the trailer.

One feminist is bad = all feminists are bad?

I dont understand this, with everything else everyone seems to acknowledge that the vocal minority is stupid but a minority but with feminists people will hold up one person and go `THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ALL LIKE!!!!!`

But whatever, think what you like I suppose.

It's worth noting that that is also the only feminist blog I was able to find that discussed the whole Brian Banks thing, you know, at all. The others generally try to ignore it because it disagrees with their preconceived positions. Another one of those "Stopped clock, twice a day" moments.

It's actually a surprise that someone so generally horrible was so surprisingly less horrible regarding Banks, while the likes of Shakesville, Pandagon, Feministe, Feministing, and Jezebel all seem to be trying their hardest to pretend it didn't happen.

Compare the general internet feminist response to a few events that might be recognizable to this audience:

Webcomic that uses a character saying they were being repeatedly raped as an example of the horror they had to live through in an attempt to make a joke about the ridiculousness of MMO heroes morality? Light the torches and grab the pitchforks, let loose the battle cry of "rape culture" and act like they're no better than rapists when they respond to being attacked with mockery. (penny Arcade Dickwolves controversy)

Tentacle hentai themed card game, laden with innuendo but never outright saying why the tentacle monsters were after the school girls? Light the torches and grab the pitchforks, let loose the battle cry of "rape culture" and then complain because merely having it's Kickstarter cancelled didn't kill it (and posit whether or not they could get the company's credit card processing frozen to kill it better). Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war, and all that. (Tentacle Bento controversy)

Woman confesses outright and on camera to lying about a rape, putting someone in jail for half a decade, on probation for another half decade, registered as a sex offender, and using the accusation to fraudulently sue the school district for a ton of money while her victims family had to sell their home in his defense? Total fucking silence, except for one person who feels it important to point out this dishonesty is at least bad in between rants about how its a good idea to have men forcibly castrated for the good of all people. (Brian Banks case)

Trailer where generally asexual killing machine murders nun-assassins clad in impractical fetish gear, with the same kind of glee and focus on detail generally reserved for the murder of male characters? This goes back to being important again, though fewer pitchforks and torches than I was expecting. (Hitman trailer this thread is about)

 

[Phasmal]

Snip

I'm not exactly sure what point you are making here. That feminists only think about stuff if they're blogging about it?

As I've said before, its feminism is a varied and personal thing. I dont care if there are feminists who I disagree with, because I am not them, I am free to disagree with them.

Personally I give zero fucks about the Hitman trailer. Yeah, its dumb and stupid sexualisation, but honestly I expect that shit in the game industry. I wont buy it anyway, hopefully one day this media can mature.

 

[The Ubermensch]

The fact is there should be equality of opportunity, but when folks pretend thtere should be equality of result or that all people are inherently equal in interest and ability, that is where things get perverse. It has happened a lot with the feminist movement where inconvenient facts are swept under the rug in order to claim inequality only when convenient. 9 out of 10 prisoners are men for instance, not everything is rosy about being men, drop out rates and grades in higher education and the rest are all worse for guys, you never hear about this though because apparently only women have a hard time in the world. But if some stat were as distorted as the 9 out of 10 prisoner are men but against women there would be outrage and hysteria, but since its just affecting men, its just accepted as a given.

Just how it is now apparently.

I have some experience with these statistics first hand. Once upon a time I was a nurse in training, WAS for about two years before I managed to piss off half the faculty. Now I kill people, isn't life grand?

Anyway, so once upon a sociology orientation lecture the professor was talking about wages and how nurses don't get payed enough and how now that there were more men in the field they may now be due a pay rise.

Later on in the semester, I managed to piss her off every single prac mind you, however EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME I WAS RIGHT (A tear comes to my eye, I find this rather amusing to remember), we were talking about stereotypes, and she shot around the class to ask for some stereotypes. Another thing that was going on in this class was the paramedic and I were having a rivalry thing going on, and I made the mistake of mentioning I'm from New Zealand, Sheep Sex joke ahoy! So he goes with that, we all have a good laugh. So it comes my turn... how this was a university discussion... anyway, I go with "Catholic priests touch little boys". Now the class goes quite and we move on. Later during the lesson the lecturer approaches me and tells me I was out of line. I then proceed to explain to her that yes it was offensive, but show me a stereotype that wasn't in some way offensive, and I'll show you a black man (I could get in trouble for that one). Ya know, the New Zealand one, I could find that offensive couldn't I? And rather than admit her fault, she goes and confronts the paramedic while I face palm.

Later myself and the paramedic laughed for a long time.

I don't know what relevance that has to be honest, the discussion on stats just made me think of that.

ON TOPIC!

Feminists make bad feminists. I mean the definition of feminism has changed so many times. First it was about suffrage, then it was about sex and no wedlock bastardry, now its about less sex, money and judgment of those who aren't feminists. I put forward that women have a lot of power now... I mean if you've had any kind of sexual intercourse with a woman, and she gets pregnant, and she files for child support, and you don't get a paternity test with in 72 hours of her lodging that claim... well mister, you're fucked (I have no conformational on this... this was just a mate of mine ranting about how fucked he got... YES I'M PULLING A FOX NEWS). To be honest... I can't really get behind the idea of child support in its most sane context; If a man gets a woman pregnant and the woman takes it to term the man has to pay support, the woman can pull out within the first two trimesters via an abortion but the man gets no say what so ever. I mean yes, physical pain and what not but it still seems unfair.

Then again, I've had five corporals and a sergeant tell me that "all women are just snakes with tits, do what you need with them and then get out of dodge", and I do like the crazies. My view might be skewed some what.

My opinion of gender rights... the law should be the same for every one. If there is an exception for one gender then it needs to be worded in away that it applies to both genders or none at all. For example, Rape should be described as forced sexual contact rather than penetration. There are differences between men and women, but shouldn't be up to a government to define them. Feminism should exist, don't get me wrong, but there needs to be a strong counter movement at this point, of which there is not.

And with that in mind; to the original question, gamers making bad feminists, I say Yes... but non feminist gamers in my experience make excellent and empowered women.

That went on longer than I had planned. Sorry if the grammar got over looked but... CBFed man

 

[Phasmal]

Then again, I've had five corporals and a sergeant tell me that "all women are just snakes with tits, do what you need with them and then get out of dodge", and I do like the crazies. My view might be skewed some what.

I dont understand how that works. I've heard so many people say crap like this, but I'm always getting accused of man-hating (even though I've not said anything of the sort), but this crap is acceptable to say.
Then again, if anyone begins a sentance with `All women are` I tend to tune out. Unless they are going to say `individuals`, its hardly going to be enlightned.

And with that in mind; to the original question, gamers making bad feminists, I say Yes... but non feminist gamers in my experience make excellent and empowered women.

Ehhh...whut?
I don't quite understand. Me being a feminist has very little to do with me being a gamer.

 

[Phasmal]

Then again, if anyone begins a sentance with `All women are` I tend to tune out. Unless they are going to say `individuals`, its hardly going to be enlightned.

Just saying, if you don't like "all women" then don't say "all men", doing it yourself doesn't help the issue.

Everybody generalises sometimes, I try to avoid doing it.
I've certainly neever said all dudes were snakes.

 

[Conn1496]

Sorry. We interrupt your forums to bring you more thread whoring!
Seriously, you guys need to work on appropriate thread titles...

Anyway, Feminism isn't a good or bad thing. It's a thing. A thing that women (and men if you're that sort of wierd.) are entitled to and a thing we should respect. Where this fits with gaming I have no idea, and whoever said gamers make bad feminists are probably the same morons who said something along the lines of sponges make bad sandwiches, because frankly, they're unrelated. Gaming is a unisex activity, it's just that men take more of a liking to it than women. It's like saying shopping is a feminine activity, because, I don't know about you single guys, but I'm pretty sure you HAVE to go shopping. Does that make you feminine? No. If people stopped adressing gender roles as a problem, they'd eventually fade away as every other problem does, and feminists wouldn't need to be feminists.

 

[Treefingers]

snip

I couldn't agree with you more. The sexism that goes on in the gaming community makes me embarrassed to identify with it.

 

[Phasmal]

snip

I couldn't agree with you more. The sexism that goes on in the gaming community makes me embarrassed to identify with it.

Hopefully it will get better one day, but looking at this thread I'd guess not any time soon.
Oh, well.

Snip.

Reported. How is saying that kind of crap even acceptable on here?

 

[iRevanchist]

The woman are not real, It is a work of fiction, Games are an art form.

There wouldn't be outcry if a woman was punched/raped/dressed as a strippernunassissin in a book, movie or TV program (assuming it was aired at the right time).

*women

and if a woman was unched/raped/dressed as a strippernunassissin in a book, movie or TV program you bet your ass there would be a public outcry.