Fumbles said:
They all have realistic skills. Are all strong, they all can exist without men. You can argue that Gwen from Torchwood needs Jack Harkness, but after she learns the ropes, she is a strong female character. As far as games go, I will have to say Fear Effect is the only one that comes to mind.
I do agree that most of this thread is, unfortunately, correct.
Realistic? Buffy's a superhero with no other "skills."
River is a psychic killing machine whose only other trait is neurotic breaks.
Gwen spends most of her time as an idiot whose only function appears to be the "human element."
Yeah, okay, I can see that last one.
As for "existing without men," well....
Gwen needs Jack Harkness. You already said it. Even after she's "grown," she falls apart without him. The only exception is really offscreen time, and then suddenly Jack's back and she's a basketcase again. She's strong unless the plot demands otherwise, which is both bad writing AND the case almost 100% of the time.
Buffy has several arcs in which she cannot get by without a male figure, usually Giles or Angel. In fact, there are a couple of major arcs where Giles wants to leave, but Buffy can't function without him, so... And just when he does leave, he comes back. Not tomention, things kind of fall apart without him around, so it's up to Daddy to make things better.
River...You know, we don't really see much of River independent of her brother. Maybe she'd have a chance to grow with time, but this is a pretty awful example as-is.
I guess my points here would be:
-Realistic probably shouldn't have a place in terms of what makes a 'good' female character, since we're talking about unrealistic shows in the first place.
-Most of these characters are NOT as independent as you would argue them.
-If that's the state of entertainment, if these are the best examples, there's a problem.
-Joss Wheedon may be a feminist, but that doesn't really mean much here. In fact, if I could continue, he went so far to say in at least one interview that a strong female character is more or less incapable of being feminine by necessity. That sort of outlook and false dichotomy don't speak well of his capacity to undertake writing strong women.
-Russel T Davies is a hack. But that doesn't really have much to do with gender roles in media.