i'm good at anything that involves timing, like rhythm paradise and dodging on monster hunter.
I enjoy RTS and TBS immensely, but I never play online or on any setting harder than "hard"
In shooters I am abysmal, apart from tf2, where I'm the worst of the best if that makes sense (the lowest bracket of very skilled players)
And I enjoy them all, I think most of what you're saying is somewhat subjective...or is it objective? i can't think in the mornings...
surely one who is terrible at a hobby will not enjoy said hobby?
*Snip*
But surely a physically and mentally competent gamer would not be universally bad at all games everywhere- and still consider himself/herself a 'gamer'?
I see where you are coming from, good sir, and I am here to tell you something vitally important:
Your thesis is incorrect.
Now, I obviously cannot speak for every hobbyist -- or even every gamer -- but I can speak for me, and what I am is a hobbyist who is, objectively, bad at quite a few of my hobbies in ways I cannot blame my hardware for.
To continue with the theme of games (this *is* the Escapist Forums), I'm pretty sub-par at videogames.
Out of the (many) video games I play, the one example I am going to use (Though it is far from the only example of me being bad at something I enjoy) is League of Legends.
I am bad at League of Legends. This places me in the seemingly-unique role in the community of somebody who actually blames himself for dying. I tend to favour playing the Easiest Role in the Game: the AD Carry. My K is usually greater than 1:1, but 2:1 often escapes me, and we've all had those terrible games where we make critical errors early that result in us feeding the enemy. I play my characters atypically, preferring to experiment and learn through trial and error rather than just pull up a MOBAfire guide and go to town, following the meta. I *still*, to this day, don't have much of an idea what a good AP build is for Twisted Fate (Although he is my favourite AP champion), and my most played champion has been Twitch since before season one (To give you an idea of how often I play, though: I haven't yet hit level 20).
I die often, I lose often, and I call *myself* out for my mistakes in allchat. Hell, I've even called out "Report [My Champion]: Unskilled Player" multiple times. In allchat. I take critique of my ability to play or not play relatively seriously and attempt to patch and rectify my errors where possible.
More than once, while retreating from an engagement, I have thrown a poison cask (Twitch's skillshot AoE Slow) to help my support escape, only to watch them turn around and fight and die, only to be sent a "Why didn't you save me?"
"That's what the cask was for." I tend to reply. "It drank up the last of my mana, couldn't go for the kill". And, judging from the number of retreat pings I get while already running away from a fight, I appear to be foolhardy, reckless, and aggressive to the extreme.
There's no two ways about it: I'm bad at League of Legends. Yet, I still run the game and I still enjoy myself in-game, even when I'm losing and on a losing streak. If the game is *fun* and/or *Engaging*, it doesn't matter if I'm terrible.
Same goes for every other hobby I'm into.
I will, however, concede that, through the sheer amount of rote repetition and/or familiarity with the constructs of the medium, if nothing else, I am probably better than your average non-gamer.
Since I feel like it: under the spoiler, A list of the Champions I tend to play (Maybe therein lay my problem).
In no particular Order:
Twitch
Graves
Nunu
Twisted Fate
Fiora
Vi
Sona
Imo there aren't that many truly bad players most ppl won't do something they suck at. The bad players are those that turn on their 360 once a blue moon and get trounced at CoD or Fifa, the rest at the very least play story based games like RPGs on easy.
That said I would say that the skill level of gamers on average is lower to what it was a decade ago, atleast where twitch skills are concerned. why get your arse repeatedly kicked in a truly hard game when you can just play an easier game that has the same controls and mechanics as the last game you played?
There seems to be a stigma about been a bad player, they are made fun of and no one with any e peen wants to be one. That's a shame imo because it's ok to be bad at something as long as there is a wish to improve. Imo if there is any type of player to be looked down upon (though not really) it's the so called avid gamer with an e peen who doesn't try new and different games.
An acquaintance of mine got into a spirited discussion a few days ago about X-com games of the past and present. We were not personally friends, but he knew his stuff quite well; he quoted specific lines from the research text of UFO defence and Enemy Unknown, described specific enemies in good detail, mentioned developers by name and rank and so on. Eventually, I asked him if he'd played the Bureau and he said (exact quote) 'No, I'm terrible at games'. And that struck me. I pressed him further and he revealed that he follows the development cycle of games very closely but rarely plays any of them on account of 'being terrible at games'. He never mentioned what specifically he was terrible at, but I assumed he meant gameplay in general.
I cannot contact him now to ask him more, so I ask all of you instead!
michael87cn said:
It's impossible to be "terrible at games."
Human beings are sentient, and have the capability to learn, adapt, and improve themselves.
You're quite right. The title of 'terrible gamer' is one that a person must use as self-identifier, rather than a qualitative judgement. That does also raise another question: Would not a 'terrible gamer' improve his/her skills in time? Or would such a person prefer not to expend mental energy and effort and forever play games at the lowest difficulty level?
Gunner 51 said:
Wow, this thread is a bit snooty.
Just because someone may be less skilled than a seasoned gamer doesn't make them any less a gamer than self proclaimed pros. This is the 21st century now, almost everyone is a gamer and as Rev Raptor said "It doesn't really matter how good a gamer is, all that matters is that they are having fun."
I may suck bigtime on Black Ops 2, but that doesn't mean to say that I ought to have my copy taken away from me or that it makes me less of a person. Just because I like to play games with my chums and that I don't derive all that much pleasure from winning all the time doesn't make me less of a gamer.
C'mon OP, don't be so salty toward the less skilled. Without them, you don't have anyone to win over so you can crow about it.
With utmost and all due respect, you misunderstand my position. I have no personal issue with 'terrible gamers'; I view that as a self-proclaimed title rather than a judgement. It just baffles me how anyone could want to be a gamer if one derives no success (and thus little enjoyment) from the hobby. 'Terrible drivers' still drive because they need to. They might hate driving and fear for their lives every second they take to the roads but they'll do it because mass transport is not always an option. But gaming is a voluntary hobby. Why would one invest substantial money into it if one considers oneself poor at the hobby?
Thanatos5150 said:
I see where you are coming from, good sir, and I am here to tell you something vitally important:
Your thesis is incorrect.
Now, I obviously cannot speak for every hobbyist -- or even every gamer -- but I can speak for me, and what I am is a hobbyist who is, objectively, bad at quite a few of my hobbies in ways I cannot blame my hardware for.
To continue with the theme of games (this *is* the Escapist Forums), I'm pretty sub-par at videogames.
Out of the (many) video games I play, the one example I am going to use (Though it is far from the only example of me being bad at something I enjoy) is League of Legends.
*snip*
There's no two ways about it: I'm bad at League of Legends. Yet, I still run the game and I still enjoy myself in-game, even when I'm losing and on a losing streak. If the game is *fun* and/or *Engaging*, it doesn't matter if I'm terrible.
Same goes for every other hobby I'm into.
I will, however, concede that, through the sheer amount of rote repetition and/or familiarity with the constructs of the medium, if nothing else, I am probably better than your average non-gamer.
Your arguments are well-reasoned but I am forced to disqualify them on account of your example: League of Legends is what one could consider a 'professional' game. Gamers come there for two reasons: To compete in international tournaments and earn riches and gold beyond our wildest imaginings, or to practice for said tournaments. I would never consider myself a 'pro gamer' in that regard and so I avoid The League like the plague. By its nature, The League excludes casual gamers- a dirty word to use, I realize, but it applies in its most general sense to this example. As far as The League is concerned, I am a casual gamer; I rarely get into the multiplayer side of the games I own and I have little interest in training my skills- even though I own more than fifty separate game titles.
But to return to your example, would you consider yourself a 'terrible gamer'? Or just terrible at specific games- like The League? If you are of the latter, then I can understand your position; no gamer is excellent at every genre. If you are of the former, then I can not understand your position for reasons listed in my opening post.
I have a hard time processing the idea of gamers who are 'terrible at games'- surely one who is terrible at a hobby will not enjoy said hobby? I am terrible at building boats, so I do not build any. I just stick to my own hobby of gaming.
Everyone who is good at building boats started by being terrible at it. There can be a lot of enjoyment in learning and seeing personal improvement. But it can also be a double-edged sword because any activity that is challenging will have its moments of frustration and the feeling of never getting anywhere. People who are truly good at something have been through those frustrating phases.
If someone claims they only do things that they are good at, I would claim that they aren't really good at it, but simply never had the opportunity to be challenged.
Some games are not designed to be challenging, but are meant to be an experience. In those cases I'd say that one can neither be good nor bad at them. In the same way that one can not be good or bad at watching a movie or listening to a piece of music.
Being terrible at games is a very relative thing. In a competitive setting one might feel terrible when playing against opponents that are better, yet feel competent when playing against opponents that are worse. Personally I feel I have the best time when playing against an equal, or maybe slightly better opponent.
Your arguments are well-reasoned but I am forced to disqualify them on account of your example: League of Legends is what one could consider a 'professional' game. Gamers come there for two reasons: To compete in international tournaments and earn riches and gold beyond our wildest imaginings, or to practice for said tournaments. I would never consider myself a 'pro gamer' in that regard and so I avoid The League like the plague. By its nature, The League excludes casual gamers- a dirty word to use, I realize, but it applies in its most general sense to this example. As far as The League is concerned, I am a casual gamer; I rarely get into the multiplayer side of the games I own and I have little interest in training my skills- even though I own more than fifty separate game titles.
I think some people may simply play to have fun in a casual way, which doesn't necessarily mean being bad at it. Casual players can be pretty good at what they do, contrary to the way the word is sometimes used.
Admittedly LoL is not very friendly towards players with that attitude ;-)
I think the competitive gaming scenes tend to sometimes forget that the games depend on the amateurs that have no desire to be elite. There are many ways to play a game and media sometimes focus too much on the elite.
you realize it is possible to be bad at something yet still enjoy it, right? i am pretty awful at golf but i enjoy playing and do play when the opportunity presents itself.
You're quite right. The title of 'terrible gamer' is one that a person must use as self-identifier, rather than a qualitative judgement. That does also raise another question: Would not a 'terrible gamer' improve his/her skills in time? Or would such a person prefer not to expend mental energy and effort and forever play games at the lowest difficulty level?
All of this is true. We adapt, we learn, we get better, sometimes I wonder if I got better at new games cause I played of lot of older games. My and many other's improvements, much like you would see in physical activity such as sports, can be shown. In the end it all comes down to did you have fun.
But that means I finally get to bring this up.... what you describe as a "terrible gamer". ONE man comes very very close to fitting this criteria, and my God its cringe worthy.
Give them some time to improve. We all started out bad at everything we're good at now.
I used to have to look at my controller to see what buttons I was pressing. Now I start almost every game on hard difficulty because it too easy otherwise.
Being challenged, failing, struggling can be fun or funny or interesting. So it's not hard to imagine being bad at something and really enjoying it.
Also statistically half of gamers can't be "average" and half "above average or elite" you can't have average without people being below average. The below average skill gamers (which would be a lot of people) seem to still like it. I'm likely one of them.
It's possible if you treat games more like digital playgrounds than competetive sports. I know I'm not the only one who have fond memories of building extensive cities in AoK:TC and still remembers all the cheats from 12 years ago, despite never finding out if I can take on a normal or higher AI without them.
Eh. I suck at fighting games, but I have fun with them anyway. I'm pretty bad at FPSes, but there are a few that I've had a blast playing. I'm terrible at RTSes, but I've enjoyed a few of them. I'm better-than-average-but-still-not-that-great at "bullet hell" shmups, but some of my favorite games are in that genre.
To me, a "gamer" is someone who can appreciate and enjoy video games. Level of skill doesn't really matter much.
Cheap Joke In Coming:
Have you ever played League of Legends?
HIYOOOO!!!
OT: My best friend whom I constantly game with just naturally sucks at most games. Slow reaction speeds mixed with a slow adaptation of logic just hit him hard but he still plays and loves most games. After quite awhile he'll improve on that one game or maybe even on that genre but if he doesn't play for awhile he'll find it hard to play once again.
Actually the one factor that lets him keep play is probably his patience and ability to commit himself to succeed.
Anyway, it's all just a matter of practice in most cases including this one.
I can never get past ametuar in any video game. Always easy difficulty for me. I might be my crappy hand eye coordination but either way I suck at most video games. I tend to watch people play hard games or have people play past hard parts for me but I still have fun with that. Gaming is still a hobby of mine, and even if I generally suck, it doesn't mean I still can't enjoy a good game, even a game like dark souls.
Well I mean the thing about games is they're fun. Also you can be bad at games and still beat them now. They're not nearly as hard as they used to be. As long as you don't struggle with something as basic as the controls you can be bad at games and still enjoy them.
But that means I finally get to bring this up.... what you describe as a "terrible gamer". ONE man comes very very close to fitting this criteria, and my God its cringe worthy.
My god...
I don't know who that guy was, but damn was that terrible.
It's not even that he is bad at MGS. I can forgive people doing stupid things in a game.
But he was just so loud and obnoxious. Even during cutscenes. Also the friggin popups that cover 90% of the screen. >.>
oh i would love for some of you to meet my best friends dad, he is fucking king of enjoying games but being beyond horrible at them.
we've played every halo with him (co op and multiplayer) and the most kills he has ever gotten in a multiplayer match is 2...not kidding, the 2 he got? 1 was a random grenade from him spinning his camera around trying to figure out where he was, and the 2nd was a warthog kill where he was driving straight and the dumbass ran out in front of him from a building. otherwise he usually ends up in the negative while me and my best friend(s) usually get 18-20 kills a piece.
also, the fucker got to level 90 in diablo II.....OFFLINE SINGLE PLAYER ONLY. and he still was fucking horribad at the game, but bloody hell if he didn't enjoy it and play it for hours on end.
if there ever was a gamer who was "terrible", it is him, i promise you.
(the moment he got that grenade kill we fuckin cheered hardcore for him, he was pretty happy)
What makes a gamer in the first place?
While you are free to disagree with his idea of fun, if he enjoys buying games and not playing them it's his prerogative. If you want to take the title of "gamer" away from him because he is terrible but still enjoys playing them... well you my friend are spending way too much time deeming what is and what is not a "gamer".
Honestly I find the entire idea "gamer" being some title to be utterly stupid, if you drive a car you're a driver, if you watch TV you're a viewer, if you play games you're a gamer, all equally worthless titles that mean nothing more then to describe the action an individual has previously taken.
Next you're going to say a Veteran isn't really a Veteran if they did poorly in war.
I'm average at best. I play on easy mode or normal is easy mode really was too easy (rare). I'm an above average CoD player, though.
But I sink hours into video games and I even write about them for a successful website. I'm a gamer who's just not that good at games. I don't think you need to be an expert at a hobby at all, you just need to enjoy it. If you feel the need to be an expert, you might as well turn it into a job and compete.
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is usually greater than 1:1, but 2:1 often escapes me, and we've all had those terrible games where we make critical errors early that result in us feeding the enemy. I play my characters atypically, preferring to experiment and learn through trial and error rather than just pull up a MOBAfire guide and go to town, following the meta. I *still*, to this day, don't have much of an idea what a good AP build is for Twisted Fate (Although he is my favourite AP champion), and my most played champion has been Twitch since before season one (To give you an idea of how often I play, though: I haven't yet hit level 20).
