Games and "Cinematic": what it would take to make a truly "Cinematic" game

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

To be right upfront, this topic came up after listening to the lasting Jimquisition


The basic point is that the term "cinematic" is being used to cover for technical limitations like frame rate (which affects stuff like responses and animation contrary to what some think). In addition, the term doesn't even work because movies are a vast and diverse media with different tones and visuals (comparisons to Wreck it Ralph, Sin City, and Donnie Darko and their visual aesthetics were made) while "cinematic" games are more like Michel Bay movies as they don't have the pacing, good writing and strong direction and only have a homogenous visual styles.

So the question becomes if current big gaming can't make a game that emulates the proper aspects of cinema, then what will it take.

I really can't answer that because of the demands of games vs the characteristics of good movies. Focusing too much on story like with a VN would lend itself to a better written story and stronger emotional connection but the gameplay will obviously suffer. Conversely, the focus on action and gameplay could come with the cost of tonal dissonant cutscenes (see GTA 4) or just a bad story in general (see most CoD games).

What do you guys see as the compromise that can be reached and what are examples of games that managed to be truly "cinematic".

 

[Danny Dowling]

Heavy Rain, man. That is a cinematic game.

Also you have all those games in Japan on Vita and shit that's just dialogue with anime characters on screen. give that some animation and it's basically a cinematic game.

 

[skywolfblue]

What do you guys see as the compromise that can be reached and what are examples of games that managed to be truly "cinematic".

Alan Wake. The story is a Stephen King rip-off, but I like it. The gameplay isn't anything amazing, but it's not bad either. The atmosphere is what makes the game so great, the inky blackness of night, the wind howling through the trees, the cutscenes, etc.

Mass Effect 2 & 3. I don't know if "truly cinematic" counts here, but there are some pretty significant heavy cinematic influences in ME2 & 3. All the character dialogue, the big cinematic events (IE, suicide mission, the galactic fleet battle for earth, and so on).

I think those were some examples of "cinematic" done right, in a way that wasn't an excuse.

What I'm wondering is where Dead Space Series fits into all of this. Because in Dead Space you transition from combat to cutscene and back again seamlessly. It always remembers that it's suppose to be a game first, and that the cutscenes are a seamless part of that game. I hope more games in the future can do that too.

 

[Akjosch]

I find PlanetSide 2 to be plenty cinematic.

Nothing beats standing upon the bulwark with a few of your comrades in arms, looking down as hundreds of enemy tanks and infantry storm your position, as your scant few air jockeys try to maintain a semblance of air superiority against a swarm of flyers. And then the wave hits you. And you run, and fight, and die and respawn, over and over again. And as the battle rages on for hours, as you beat off wave after wave after wave, as your defences get crushed with no chances for anyone to reach them alive to repair your generators and turrets, yet many still trying regardless, you prepare mentally for defeat. Some people leave. You are fewer and fewer, fighting against increasing odds.

And then, in the light of a new day, your reinforcements arrive.

And you win. Now it's your turn to bring the fight to them. For Vanu.

 

[Dizchu]

I actually think the term "cinematic" has some meaning.

I kinda get the image of a game with no HUD, an immersive atmosphere, lots of attention to detail, a solid overarching plot and a "cinematic" story progression (as in, one that works in a similar way to feature films with peaks and plateaus).

What "cinematic" isn't is "interactive movie". I consider Another World to be more cinematic than The Walking Dead (though I love The Walking Dead). Actually, games like Another World are part of a subgenre that are called "cinematic platformers" which distinguishes games like it, Never Alone, Limbo, Tomb Raider, etc. from games like Super Mario Brothers and Sonic. Some games in my opinion are a mixture of both, like the most recent Rayman games.

I would hesitate to call this 30FPS, "cutscenes make up half of the game" trend as "cinematic".

 

[Zhukov]

Umm... define "cinematic"?

To me, a cinematic game (and I mean that in a good way, not as in low framerate, cutscene heavy, black bars cinematic) would have an insane animation budget, enough to make all the characters move in a lifelike fashion all the time, a minimal hud, a relatively grounded aesthetic and a lack of traditionally "gamey" presentation (no bunny-hopping, no floating health kits, that sort of thing).

Also, it would either have no cutscenes at all or would transition smoothly between gameplay and cutscene (think Dead Space or parts of Mass Effect 3).

 

[NPC009]

When I think 'cinematic game', I think of a game that carefully guides the player to give them the most impressive experience possible. It's not about QTE or long cinematics, but about streamlined level-designs that seamlessly flow into dialogues and non-interactive action scenes.

I'm not exactly fond of games like that. While I'm impressed again and again by the sheer wow-factor, when it comes to actually playing these games the experience is rather superficial. It's more about pressing the right button at the right time rather than finding your way through abstract systems and learning use them to your advantage.

Games shouldn't try to become movies (or any other medium for that matter), but developers take cues from other media. Inserting an FMV to support the narrative? That's cool. Adding short stories as a way for players to catch a glimp of a world that once was? Good idea. QTEs? QTEs need to die.

 

[Aerith]

The Uncharted series has all the makings of one fine, cinematic experience. From visuals, to the camera to the script. Uncharted 2, for example, is a gamified blockbuster movie a la National Treasure.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

Truly Cinematic? To make a game "truly cinematic" you would make it a movie. That's what cinema is, it's moviemaking, not gamemaking.

Okay, I'll try being serious. I think we can pretty much agree on what games are "cinematic" and which are not. And it's not at all that making games with a cinematic quality is a bad thing. Many of my favorite games are cinematic; it gives you a definite style, depending on what type of cinema you are emulating. It is obviously a great way to tell a story, and most of the games we think of as having great stories are also cinematic games.

But when you tip the scales too far to one side, you end up with a game like (what people say, at least, I haven't played it) The Order: 1886, which is a collection of lengthy cutscenes with some token gameplay in between. You get developers who are more interested in creating a specifically-designed sequence of events to tell their story than they are about making a well-rounded game with mechanics that allow for experimentation and original thinking. Bioware, for example, knows how to make a game that tells a full and engaging and "cinematic" story without sacrificing or edging out the gameplay that makes a video game what it is.

I just think that copying cinema has become too strong a trend in games. If you want your game to be all about the story and screw the gameplay, work for Telltale. They know how to do that right, by keeping the story flowing continuously but never making it feel like they take control away from the player.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'd say Mass Effect 1-3 managed to do that pretty well, you had your dialogue which you chose to engage in or not and even chose your routes. Key thing that made it's 'cinimatic' stuff good was it was something you chose to do for the most part.

Uncharted also did it well because well..I can't explain it, I just enjoyed the gameplay, climbing stuff and scaling a variety of things and the cutscenes never really overstayed their welcome. Yes thes series is linear but it really managed to be fun and feel like it wasn't to a degree. Even with the wonky villains in 3 it managed to be entertaining in most ways.

Since I'm a retro nerd, not that I think anyone knows/remembers me I'll add...

Flashback: The Quest For Identity for the Genesis/DOS/Amiga, because it's got cutscenes that only support the gameplay and are entirely skippable. Yes I said cutscenes in a Genesis game, because there are!

 

[Level 7 Dragon]

If by "cinematic" people mean the idea of a game being influenced by the techniques and aestetic of film I would say Hotline Miami is a good example of a cinematic game. Dennanton try to mimic the themes and art style of films like Malcholan Drive and Cocaine Cowboys. What sets appart it from David Cage games is that they manage to mimic the films not only though visuals, but also though mechanics.

What I liked about what Jim said is that we try to mimic only the film style of Michael Bay and JJ Abrams, while ignoring the influence of Riddley Scott, Stanley Kubrick, Hitchcock. Cinema isn't a single monolithic thing, there are a lot of instesting visual themes to explore and we are obsessed on making our AAA blockbusters look like the summer blockbusters people see ones in theatres and instantly forget.

Honestly, imagine a game inspired by Hitchcock films.

 

[Nazulu]

Huh. I thought it became a negative already. Every time I hear cinematic game I roll my eyes and think it's going to be one of those shallow game play experiences or QTE fests with a crappy story told through detailed looking videos.

 

[Simonism451]

I think the only sense in which the description "cinematic" could possibly be applied to videogames and still do both the word itself and videogames justice would be to describe a game in which the camera is both varied but still mostly out of the control of the player, since utilising the placement and actions of the camera (combined with movement of course) to influence the viewer is about the only thing that sets movies apart from other forms of non-interactive media or real life as it is attempted to be depicted in simulations.

 

[Bad Jim]

What do you guys see as the compromise that can be reached and what are examples of games that managed to be truly "cinematic".

The best thing to do is stop trying. Games and movies are different things that work different ways. Even TV shows are made differently to movies.

What is fun to watch isn't necessarily fun to do. You see people survive against impossible odds in movies, but in a game you will quickly discover that your odds of success are quite reasonable, or that the game is frustratingly difficult. Conversely, Minecraft survival is fun for many hours but the Let's Plays are very boring.

It's far better to embrace the fact that it is a game. That bit in Spec Ops: The Line is made more powerful by the fact that you participate, and is also more relevant because it is a commentary on the modern military shooter. It works because it is a game. It doesn't work on everyone, as it requires players to freely act in a specific way, but in movies and books it would never work, because the audience does not participate.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

The best thing to do is stop trying. Games and movies are different things that work different ways. Even TV shows are made differently to movies.

/

It's far better to embrace the fact that it is a game. That bit in Spec Ops: The Line is made more powerful by the fact that you participate, and is also more relevant because it is a commentary on the modern military shooter.

This.

'Cinematic' is (has been?) a workable enough term that can mean a variety of things, but these days it seems to be thrown around by idiotic devs and publishers who don't really seem to understand what medium they're even working in. There's always going to be crossover from films to games (and vice versa, in some cases), but people - devs and players - need to stop playing Compare The Medium, and realise what makes gaming unique is its spectrum of passive and interactive engagement. Passive's fine, interactive's fine, a mix is fine - but unless you have absolutely zero input from beginning to end, it's still a frikkin' game first and foremost, ergo not actually 'cinematic'. What's right for a given IP should be the only thing that matters.

[ captcha: seems legit - no, no it doesn't, games industry... ]

 

[Evonisia]

I thought the ideal version of "cinematic" games would be games that desire to aesthetically resemble films, but still retain the experience of a video game. In that clarifier, Alien: Isolation was a great cinematic game. Aesthetically similar to the first Alien film, with the gameplay featuring many moments which would be used as set pieces in a film whilst still feeling like you're playing a game.

 

[loa]

Metal gear solid is a cinematic game back in 1999 when telling a story in a game through anything but text was a revolutionary irregularity. At that time, "cinematic" meant something, a tangible standard, a milestone that has been reached.

Nowadays, that's pretty much every game so the term has kind of outlived its usefulness.
That milestone from back in 1999, the medium game has long passed it since.
It's like asking how many bits the ps4 has. No longer relevant.

 

[CaitSeith]

It seems the point of the video was missed. The point was that cinematic is a meaningless term, that has been used to imply that movies are better than games. Their perfect cinematic game would be one where you can't tell if it's a game or a movie. So far, gameplay denies that possibility, because the only way to not to feel like you're playing a game is to have no gameplay at all (making the game just a really long cutscene)

 

[DoPo]

It seems the point of the video was missed. The point was that cinematic is a meaningless term, that has been used to imply that movies are better than games. Their perfect cinematic game would be one where you can't tell if it's a game or a movie. So far, gameplay denies that possibility, because the only way to not to feel like you're playing a game is to have no gameplay at all (making the game just a really long cutscene)

Yup, I agree. A "cinematic game" makes as much sense to me as a "literary movie". And if we were to make the movies more literary, we should be showing text, instead of moving pictures. No, I don't mean the captions used in old movies for speech - they had plenty of pictures in between, let's just basically project a book on the screen and see how ell that is received.

 

[Teh Jammah]

I supose LA Noire could qualify as a more modern take on a 50's style film noir/hard boiled detective story. You know, if you ignore most of the shoe-horned in combat and driving sequences.