I would think this is more of a subsidisation maneuver, Government funding, that kind of thingdr.void post=9.68296.631461 said:
Games are doomed never to become an art form.
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Agreed. Art is a form of entertainment to me, though. I'll admit I'd drop Braid for Halo if I'm in the mood.dekkarax post=9.68296.631470 said:
You know, I had to play Final Fantasy VII twice to actually figure out everything that had happened. That's to say nothing of the learning curve of some of the games I've played. Try playing a fighting game online sometime. You need some level of ESP just to survive a round or two.Monkeybone post=9.68296.631408 said:
*reads posts* I feel old, now. >_<
Goodness! No, I'm not offended, but I was frustrated that I spent ten minutes second guessing myself for every overly elaborated statement you made, especially when I had a sneaking suspicion they might just be empty ones after all and you just did it for giggles to sound smart and make people feel dumb for not getting you. Sorry if I came off as douche, but man, confusing people with moon-speak isn't cool, especially when you're trying to make a point.Fangface74 post=9.68296.631447 said:It seems your almost offended Monkeybone, why? I don't think all the Escapist members ARE teens and I wouldn't presume so in the first place. I am an artist and a gamer, so if I want to discuss my trade and favourite pastime to the fullest of my vocabulary I will do so. What specifically in the post do you have a problem with and I will attempt to elaborate.
I know! I hate these "modern art" galleries, I went to one a few weeks ago and it was so boring. some of them were interesting, but I was thinking the whole time "This is art?" while looking at a row of bottles with different amounts of water in each bottle, a wooden hoop with a slight deformation at the top, and an upsidedown unicycle.anNIALLator post=9.68296.631469 said:
If art can be that, why can't games?
So, essentially your pissed because your vocab is less than mine? I hate to tell you this but that is purely your misgiving, do you honestly think that language should be dumbed down rather you 'educating up'? I'm serious about this, communication & language are essential to life, if you can't articulate an idea, point of view or opinion in direct contrast to the feeling behind it, then your only getting half the message across. I don't feel I was being overly elaborate (four short paragraphs?)in raising some points that I didn't see anywhere else in the thread. Maybe 'moon-speak isn't required in the bricklaying circles you run in (That was me making an unfair assumption about you based on very little information, so you can see how puerile it is), but it is enjoyed and furthered in mine.Monkeybone post=9.68296.631536 said:Goodness! No, I'm not offended, but I was frustrated that I spent ten minutes second guessing myself for every overly elaborated statement you made, especially when I had a sneaking suspicion they might just be empty ones after all and you just did it for giggles to sound smart and make people feel dumb for not getting you. Sorry if I came off as douche, but man, confusing people with moon-speak isn't cool, especially when you're trying to make a point.Fangface74 post=9.68296.631447 said:It seems your almost offended Monkeybone, why? I don't think all the Escapist members ARE teens and I wouldn't presume so in the first place. I am an artist and a gamer, so if I want to discuss my trade and favourite pastime to the fullest of my vocabulary I will do so. What specifically in the post do you have a problem with and I will attempt to elaborate.
An artist turned a Campbell's soup can into a painting and it is called art. A team of developers who have mastered C++ and other forms of programming in order to create expansive levels, and a vast variety of game types should be unquestionably be called a art-form. Lets not forget that they also spend days at a time making these individual parts of a game and "most" of them are created to be an expression of what the creators wish to express, such as Doom=badass, Gear of War=BEAUTIFUL Chainsaw sequences.
games will never be considered art because it's audiance is a bunch of degenerates.
the people who play games are far from the art kritic persona, since art is only as good as the people who write about it games won't ever be art.
and lets face it anything that includes halo should never be considered art.
the people who play games are far from the art kritic persona, since art is only as good as the people who write about it games won't ever be art.
and lets face it anything that includes halo should never be considered art.
That's a burn if I ever saw one, but maybe we're getting the message across the wrong way. I'm just saying your putting out a concept in terms people can't relate to, I can't be any clearer than that.Fangface74 post=9.68296.631702 said:
Heres a qeustion, does gaming need to be an art form? What benefits does gaming gather from this? What exactly is an art form anyway? Do we want gaming to become like music, will it inevitably go through phase of RnB like crap? Full of songs made by amateurs with no real meaning or purpose apart from expressing how much one enjoys the club and the ass on a woman? Sorry sidetracking, but what exactly does it means if gaming does become an art form?
"I find games like Braid and Okami very artistic and have amazing style, but are they art? Hard to tell. There are forms of art that is manipulated by the user, as well. A simple example would be a kaleidiscope." [TheKbob said it I havent figured out how to quote one part of a post yet ]
This is such a good point. Think of the thousands of amazing landscape pictures could be pulled out of Liberty City or Cyrodil. This is just one example of how GAMES ARE ART!
The game developers go through the same processes to create beautiful and immersive worlds that we all choose to escape to. These worlds are real life manifestations of a thought in a dev's mind, and that is art, in my opinion.
And not to mention the stories. If you dont see the art in the stories of Things like Lost Odyssey or FF (any), then your not looking hard enough.
]This is such a good point. Think of the thousands of amazing landscape pictures could be pulled out of Liberty City or Cyrodil. This is just one example of how GAMES ARE ART!
The game developers go through the same processes to create beautiful and immersive worlds that we all choose to escape to. These worlds are real life manifestations of a thought in a dev's mind, and that is art, in my opinion.
And not to mention the stories. If you dont see the art in the stories of Things like Lost Odyssey or FF (any), then your not looking hard enough.
Games aren't art, they're universal cosmic experiences... Games are better. Also, if you want to quote just a specific part of what someone said, just take out all the WORDS WORDS WORDS you don't want/care for and just leave the relevant text with the closing [/quote] tag intact. Click 'preview' next to the post button and experiment, it's dynamic so you can see if you're doing it right or not.
Games are not art. Art are human creation made for the purpose of: expression, beauty, communication, and many more. I am no expert. But I'm damn sure entertaiment isn't the purpose of art, you'll never get entertained by art.
The thing is, art is in videogames. The writing, music, and visual elements are all art. Although most of them is pretty damn bad. Especially the writing. You will never see a videogame writer getting famous for his work. Because if he chose to write for videogames, for entertaiment, he will never be recognized for his work as the focus is on the game. Not on the story. Also videogame writers tend to suck more at writing because they probably have more passion for games than they do for literature.
Btw, the Landscape pictures pulled out of Liberty city and Cyrodiil aren't that great. It's just geometry. You require way less skill for videogame texture/modelling than you do for sculpting and general drawing.
Sorry if this post was just a jumble of sentences. I never had to make this point before.
The thing is, art is in videogames. The writing, music, and visual elements are all art. Although most of them is pretty damn bad. Especially the writing. You will never see a videogame writer getting famous for his work. Because if he chose to write for videogames, for entertaiment, he will never be recognized for his work as the focus is on the game. Not on the story. Also videogame writers tend to suck more at writing because they probably have more passion for games than they do for literature.
Btw, the Landscape pictures pulled out of Liberty city and Cyrodiil aren't that great. It's just geometry. You require way less skill for videogame texture/modelling than you do for sculpting and general drawing.
Sorry if this post was just a jumble of sentences. I never had to make this point before.
This is all true, but only to a point. The visual styles in games, though impressive at times, have never twisted your brain like Picasso can, and their story/writing has yet to reach the thought-provoking pinnacles you can find in some books. But you're only looking at the surface. It's not evidence that games have "limited potential" as an art form. The potential is only recently being tapped because, surprise, game developers are businesses with the primary goal of making money. And the big money is, as you pointed out, in the game, not the art.Irmekroache post=9.68296.632805 said:
But that hardly equals doom for the medium as an art form. Ever heard of indie films? There are plenty of small-budget artsy films that get the chance to see the light of day, with little to no ambition for making money. All they need is a little help from large, successful film producers who want to improve their image.
Don't you see? If some big-shot game developers wanted to stop looking like corporate pigs intent on turning children into noob-fragging brats or rehashing the same crap every year, all they have to do is throw some of their large stacks of money at Little Artists That Could to develop something different. Something that probably won't sell too well, but will still have the spotlight, if only for a few days.
Wasnt all this the same when film first came out?
Seriously give it time, it will be recognized as an art form soon enough.
Seriously give it time, it will be recognized as an art form soon enough.
I consider gaming an art form and to me, that is truly all that matters. I always tend to appreciate the work put into a game, the style of the game developers and the message it sends out strong enough to attract so many fans and buyers.
To me, anything can be a masterpiece. As long as one person sees it that way.
To me, anything can be a masterpiece. As long as one person sees it that way.
ART: the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
I'd have to say making a video game involves all of these things. Even artwork that is considered only worthy to burnt is still considered art. These principles can apply for video games as well.
I'd have to say making a video game involves all of these things. Even artwork that is considered only worthy to burnt is still considered art. These principles can apply for video games as well.