Games as art

[Shadowed Thief]

Now I'm not going to act like I'm a revolutionary for seeing games this way so let me clear the air by saying I realize this is a wide-held belief, if that is in fact a word.

I've been playing games all my life and to be honest the ones I enjoy most are those with a good story. Games such as Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. are nearer to the top of my favorite list than a good game with a terrible story. (See MGS 3) Okay, Bioshock's ending was lackluster but at least it took the FPS genre in a different direction than space marines and world wars.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although awesome games that make less sense than Beck's lyrics will always be awesome because of the sheer fun of playing them, games with something deeper to offer, something to reflect on as you witness the development of the story and characters will always be better to me.

Games are the highest form of entertainment to me and others like me, and I feel that the jump to a good narrative while still focusing on good gameplay is the direction that games should be moving, in fact they already are. (OMG! BEST IDEA EVER! I ARE AWESOME!) All sarcasm aside, I applaud the developers that are doing this.

Oh, and Ninjabread man is a masterpiece.

 

[Cousin_IT]

theres more to "art" then narrative

 

[broadband]

well i think part of the problem is that is a comercial art, for say it someway, and is really risky try something diferent.

also is dificult find a game that mix a good plot like the ones of a rpg, with a good or adictive gameplay, but there is some than another exception but sometimes pieces of art like psyconauts, oni (it was good for me) and Grim Fandango, end.. being ignored

 

[Joeshie]

While solid narrative is nice, gameplay always takes precedence in my opinion.

 

[Shadowed Thief]

theres more to "art" then narrative

Well, yes. I did neglect to mention that. There's also scenery,graphics,script,and so on. All of those combine to make a perfect game. In my opinion, a game is really worth my time if there's something deeper. To me that comes down to the story and its different elements. But then again that is only my opinion.

 

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm not accusing the OP of being narrow-minded, but I would argue that the idea that "games in general should tend towards having x" is a bit constrictive to the industry in general. The thing that makes games good is that there is choice. If there is a game out there that appeals to someone who wants to just do a certain thing with no real backstory, it's there. If there is a game that is deep in story elements and makes you think, it's out there.

The quality of games is not devalued by the fact that some games lack a certain element and others don't. In fact I would argue that the ability to choose a genre of games to play is much more important than having a set of stock elements that it should have in order to succeed.

 

[the monopoly guy]

I've been playing games all my life and to be honest the ones I enjoy most are those with a good story. Games such as Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. are nearer to the top of my favorite list than a good game with a terrible story. (See MGS 3)

What the hell is wrong with MGS 3's story?

for one MGS is just notorious for taking trips to crazy town but I found the story good

and its the audience that creates the art, a famous composer of whom I cant remember at the moment once had his entire orchestra play nothing for 4 minutes while the audience listened to themselves (the CD wasn't that good)

NOTE: these aren't my words but I agree with them entirely

 

[ResidentEman]

Yeah, I do feel that games have taken the plunge and become a true art form. With all of the skill of making them, the great narratives, and the excellent production values of most games, it is becoming harder and harder for critics of the games-as-art movement to effectively argue otherwise. And BTW, MGS has a great story, all of them do. Never hate on MGS around me again or I'll find you, strap you down in front of a TV, and force you to watch every MGS cutscene in the whole series in order until you finally take back your hate of the series! LOL. Yes, I'm a Kojima fanboy.

 

[Squarewave]

I think that one day games might be considered a true art form. Perhaps someday when I'm an old man I'll hear critics talk about the style and the gameplay of Super Mario.
However it takes a real long time for a medium to become an art form. People have only really started to consider movies to be an art form the past 30 years or so. And I don't think I've heard anyone claim TV as art and its more respected then video games

Sure theres the gamer niche that considers things like bioshock and portal to be art.But the rest of the world just laughs at the idea of it

 

[Saskwach]

I've been playing games all my life and to be honest the ones I enjoy most are those with a good story. Games such as Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. are nearer to the top of my favorite list than a good game with a terrible story. (See MGS 3)

What the hell is wrong with MGS 3's story?

for one MGS is just notorious for taking trips to crazy town but I found the story good

and its the audience that creates the art, a famous composer of whom I cant remember at the moment once had his entire orchestra play nothing for 4 minutes while the audience listened to themselves (the CD wasn't that good)

NOTE: these aren't my words but I agree with them entirely

You're thinking of 4'33" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3].

 

[Fire Daemon]

I don't think games are manufactured with "being art" in mind. They might be art but they are not created as artworks.

 

[Drong]

Ok lets take a look at a (admittedly very abridged) definition of art...

Art - the products of human creativity;
- the creation of beautiful or significant things;
- a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation
- a particular type of creative production generated by human beings, and the term usually implies some degree of aesthetic value. An artist makes a work of art for various purposes, such as creating an experience for others or as part of a ritual
- The formal expression of a conceived image or imagined conception in terms of a given medium

Now games fit under a number of these and I find it hard to believe there is any argument about their validity as an art form, after all shitting in a fish tank can be art so why not games? Because it is done for commercial gain? Well so is art really, just look at the prices pieces sell for, maybe some people still do art for arts sake but to dealers particularly it has become just another big business.

 

[ResidentEman]

I believe Drong has just made the most valid point I have ever heard.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I don't think I want to live in a world where rotting animal parts and Good Charlotte can be considered as art but Bioshock can't.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

It really depends on the game. I mean, no one would argue that Halo 3 is art...I hope. But the Mass Effect cutscenes and the entire game for Shadow of the Colossus...how are those not art?

 

[jezz8me]

Wait did i get the right message from this thread. You think that becks lyrics are not art and are just senseless weird shit like games such as katamari. Well i disagree.

Seriously, not just about the Beck thing, narrative nor does the visual appeal are neccecary for art and in fact an abstract game such as katamari an be seen as an art form in the way it hs this nonsense which can be seen as just a little kids game but the idea of us just being toys of the king of cosmos and that we are the parts to building stars can be something quite complicated.

See Alice in Wonderland.

Sure a movie with a deep story can be art and i love a nice story in a game in fact it is what keeps me playing, the incentive that drives me and the reason i do not do many extra things because i am just given a little acknowledgment i want a side story, a backstory or another view discovered.

Art is in essence creation and no one can judge what is or is not art. Mary Kate and Ashlee's Sweet 16 can be art, i would not see it as so but no one can argue against somethings artistic merit. (See: Andy Warhol, Da Daism ect)

 

[HannesPascal]

Sure game is art. My art teacher says that you're an artist if your work (your art) make other people feel any kind of emotion, and tell me which game that doesn't make you feel any kind of emotion, but in the other hand my art teacher is kind of weird.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I don't think all games are "art" but I do think some games are art.

Bioshock mixes a stunning, carefully constructed visual design, an interesting and subtle narrative and an underlying philosophy. In this case I feel that it IS art, mostly because of the careful creativity you can fell practically oozing from the game.

Okami attempts to present a visual design that looks like a japanese painting as well as telling an interesting story that conveys japanese mythology quite well.

Shadow of the Collossus is a striking look at lonliness, loss, redemtion, isolation, violence and love, conveying the whole plethora of emotions with remarkable skill.

I believe all of these count as "art" because of how they mix the elements of Narrative, Visual Design and Gameplay to present an interactive world and an experience most movies and novels cannot hope to display, and while both of those mediums offer their own pros and cons, I feel that certain games definately hold up in this field.