Games need more real music
- Thread starter ToastiestZombie
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The only difference between licensed music and video game soundtrack is who wrote them though. I guess my suggestion is to go listen to more of your favored artist's music when not playing? I prefer music that fits the characters or scenes really, regardless of whether it's licensed or original. Although most of my favorite music is from soundtracks.
As opposed to fake?
I kid.
I really don't want licensed music in games unless it's being used for some purpose in a game like GTA or for racing and sports games. Game music is supposed to enhance the feel of the game and is tailored to do that. Yeah, you could do that with licensed music, but you get something like Crazy Taxi and that becomes troublesome after a while since the company might lose their right to use it after a while. Artists like being paid.
Some of the best orchestral music I've heard comes from games and I've also had the best experiences in games because of the music that went perfectly to what I was doing. God of War is a perfect example. I know Catherine had "real" music, but no one owns the rights to the originals so the game's composer could do whatever he wanted with it. And while I liked the music, it was a little distracting since I spent most of my time figuring out what the piece was rather than playing the game.
I kid.
I really don't want licensed music in games unless it's being used for some purpose in a game like GTA or for racing and sports games. Game music is supposed to enhance the feel of the game and is tailored to do that. Yeah, you could do that with licensed music, but you get something like Crazy Taxi and that becomes troublesome after a while since the company might lose their right to use it after a while. Artists like being paid.
Some of the best orchestral music I've heard comes from games and I've also had the best experiences in games because of the music that went perfectly to what I was doing. God of War is a perfect example. I know Catherine had "real" music, but no one owns the rights to the originals so the game's composer could do whatever he wanted with it. And while I liked the music, it was a little distracting since I spent most of my time figuring out what the piece was rather than playing the game.
H-how is crafting music specifically for each part of a game the generic option, and using popular music the breath of fresh air? I just...no...NO!! IT'S NOT RIGHT!!!
OT: You really stirred the hornets nest with this one by not only calling orchestral music generic, but also saying it isn't real. Hell, my nerd rage is only just being kept down for this moment. I leave you with this.
PS: Actually, we can pull off both I believe by having popular musicians perform the music for the game. I still prefer my orchestral tunes, but I would miss out on this lovely piece by my favorite band.
OT: You really stirred the hornets nest with this one by not only calling orchestral music generic, but also saying it isn't real. Hell, my nerd rage is only just being kept down for this moment. I leave you with this.
PS: Actually, we can pull off both I believe by having popular musicians perform the music for the game. I still prefer my orchestral tunes, but I would miss out on this lovely piece by my favorite band.
at OP: Im sorry but i think you are completely wrong. Original soundtracks are far more effective than any piece of pop music could ever be. So many games have GREAT soundtracks too, ones that fit the scenes better than most movies do. In fact i'd have to say pop music irritates the hell out of me, including when it appears in movies and it's the same old songs we've heard in those type of scenes before. That lazy music directing is one reason why some modern movies really fail to grab my attention.
Do you realise how much it costs for stuff like that? To license a single song? Licensing multiple could double the cost of a game. I feel when games use music like that for things other than radio stations (Fallout) it feels tacky and like 'we're too lazy to make our own music here have someone elses' I think video game music is written for video games, where music for other things is written for that in mind.
I disagree with your reasoning, as well as much of your claim (I found the music picks in Django, as well as the film, to be awful, pretentious shit). Yet, I also agree. Allow me to elaborate.ToastiestZombie said:
Licensed music can, and sometimes does, have a place in video game soundtracks. The right song can add quite a lot to a specific scene or moment within the game.
However, there are two circumstances the developer must avoid if they don't want to ruin the experience. First is making damned sure to pick the right song. Having the wrong song will not only be jarring but will undermine any impact the scene may have on the player. Second is making sure you don't have an over-abundance of licensed tracks. If you put too many licensed songs in your game you run the risk of both breaking immersion and limiting your game to a very specific "time"; especially if they go with primarily contemporary music.
Even if a developer gets all of those things right, you still have another problem. That being the potential of "putting off" players because they don't like the developers choice in music or they don't like the idea of having an iconic track associated with what's in the game. Sure, you can say the same of original soundtracks, but with OSTs you generally don't run the risk of having your songs associated with something else, and in most cases people will simply turn off the music if they don't like it.
This is not to say that I think there should be no licensed music in gaming. On the contrary. Done correctly it can be great. And by "done correctly" I mean one of two things: taking a licensed song and re-purposing it for your game or involving the original artists in the project.
For example: Mech Assault 2.
Now, there are moments in the game wherein they use some licensed music. Those moments are awkward and disruptive. They don't mesh well.
However, there are other songs in the soundtrack that are, for lack of a better word, "remixes" of a licensed song. And, I don't mean some "techno" cover.
What they did was, they took a licensed track, stripped out most of the vocals, concentrated on specific melodies and bass-lines, and retooled the pacing, beat, and progression to create a collection of tunes that all sounded like they came from the same mold, but were remade to fit a wide range of scenes and scenarios. From calm to tense to action-packed. They also blended well with the rest of the songs in the soundtrack.
Another example is in Portal 2.
Of the 70-some songs in the game, all but two are original creations from the composer Mike Morasky over at Valve. The other two were created by existing composers outside the developer. Specifically, Johnathon Coulton and The National. Both composed songs specifically for the game; one of whom (The National) released their song as part of one of their own albums.
I think these methods are better than simply cramming some already existing track into your game. By bringing in an existing artist or reworking an existing song you can create songs for your game that sound like something they'd write but carry none of the baggage of using one of their existing songs "as is".
shogo sakai, tim follin, grant kirkhope and paul romero are all examples of game soundtrack composers who did a marvellous job fitting the music to the genres and settings of their games
using licensed tracks would firmly not be beneficial for them
using licensed tracks would firmly not be beneficial for them
I remember The Humbling River being used to excellent effect in the Fall of Cybertron trailer.
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What I like seing, though, is when games make their own music. Not orchestral level themes, but stuff you would hear on the average radio.
<youtube=QV4cHB07wkY>
Can you imagine that level, for example, with out the song? The fact that it was original, but still mainstream music made it incredibly memorable, for both the stage and song.
The Sonic Generations Remix
<youtube=zfUoXJzff2I>
Somewhere, there's a GUN General with a tiny penis, and an Engineer with way too much funding.
Another example is character themes. These work well enough, but are even better popy, since their lyrics can match the attitudes of the character.
It Doesn't Matter: Sonic's theme.
<youtube=xTke7eiWm7Q>
While never mentioning the song's subject or even origin, it captures the mood and personality of the games main protagonist. Even if it is goofy.
Here is Metal Sonic's. Note the way that, in game, Metal thinks he is the original Sonic. This is shown from the way that the song is not just about proving himself to Sonic and Eggman, but to himself.
<youtube=MuVAaU63K7k>
Of course, if a song isn't good, it can have the effect of people not liking the character.
Amy's Theme: My Sweet Passion. I apologize for doing this.
<youtube=pXHw8o6UI9M>
Just make sure that the song fits the character and area well, and not just written for the sake of being written. Such as Pumpkin Hill. Or, "A Ghost Pumpkin's Soup." ONe of those, "It's So Bad It's Good" songs.
<youtube=LKK3J2h1nGA>
As a bonus, my latest song that I love from Sonic and it's Final Boss Remix. Ladies and Gentlehogs, let me show you Reach for the Stars
<youtube=5bv4CJ80LXQ>
<youtube=NcCrHZAKfPI>
<youtube=tnazs2t5Brg>
What I like seing, though, is when games make their own music. Not orchestral level themes, but stuff you would hear on the average radio.
<youtube=QV4cHB07wkY>
Can you imagine that level, for example, with out the song? The fact that it was original, but still mainstream music made it incredibly memorable, for both the stage and song.
The Sonic Generations Remix
<youtube=zfUoXJzff2I>
Somewhere, there's a GUN General with a tiny penis, and an Engineer with way too much funding.
Another example is character themes. These work well enough, but are even better popy, since their lyrics can match the attitudes of the character.
It Doesn't Matter: Sonic's theme.
<youtube=xTke7eiWm7Q>
While never mentioning the song's subject or even origin, it captures the mood and personality of the games main protagonist. Even if it is goofy.
Here is Metal Sonic's. Note the way that, in game, Metal thinks he is the original Sonic. This is shown from the way that the song is not just about proving himself to Sonic and Eggman, but to himself.
<youtube=MuVAaU63K7k>
Of course, if a song isn't good, it can have the effect of people not liking the character.
Amy's Theme: My Sweet Passion. I apologize for doing this.
<youtube=pXHw8o6UI9M>
Just make sure that the song fits the character and area well, and not just written for the sake of being written. Such as Pumpkin Hill. Or, "A Ghost Pumpkin's Soup." ONe of those, "It's So Bad It's Good" songs.
<youtube=LKK3J2h1nGA>
As a bonus, my latest song that I love from Sonic and it's Final Boss Remix. Ladies and Gentlehogs, let me show you Reach for the Stars
<youtube=5bv4CJ80LXQ>
<youtube=NcCrHZAKfPI>
lol, calling Orchestral 'Generic'
Im just going to be chilling here with Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Every Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind, Assassins Creed 2, Two Steps from Hell and Age of Empires 3 Etc.
OP: What constitutes 'Real Music'? Oh, its just your subjective opinion? So that means any soundtrack is 'Music'? OK so its more of a choice where its more appropriate.
Im just going to be chilling here with Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Every Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind, Assassins Creed 2, Two Steps from Hell and Age of Empires 3 Etc.
OP: What constitutes 'Real Music'? Oh, its just your subjective opinion? So that means any soundtrack is 'Music'? OK so its more of a choice where its more appropriate.
I don't know what the distinction between game music and...'real' music is meant to be, maybe you're implying that game music is more generic and doesn't make as good use of dramatic tension? Part of it would have to be prctical concerns of looping as background music and so on. Personally, I don't really like hearing music from real life in-game unless it's set in the real world, and furthermore most of my favourite music is from games' OSTs. So...gotta disagree.
Licensed Music (If that's what you mean by "Real") needs to match the mood/setting and or context that it is presented in. In game Vehicles and radios, background noise in sports games, clubs in games, the Music/dancing game genre are some of the easiest settings contextually they can be presented in.
One of the problems is that when you try to fit the mood of a specific scene or segment with licensed music, you may run into the problem of players recognizing it and having the focus be on the piece of music itself rather than the game play of the moment.
In saints Row 3, I personally had a harder time driving when they started singing "what I got" because I find open world driving a bit boring and now have a scene trying to distract me from it, as opposed to just driving around regularly.
And the Weed Mission from Far Cry 3. I'm really looking forward to playing that mission but I like the song too much that that's realistically going to be the highlight of that mission.
Brutal legend actually does a great job incorporating licensed music into it's battles. Especially in the case of the final RTS Battle, All the songs used enhanced the mood of the situation getting me more into the game play.
One of the problems is that when you try to fit the mood of a specific scene or segment with licensed music, you may run into the problem of players recognizing it and having the focus be on the piece of music itself rather than the game play of the moment.
In saints Row 3, I personally had a harder time driving when they started singing "what I got" because I find open world driving a bit boring and now have a scene trying to distract me from it, as opposed to just driving around regularly.
And the Weed Mission from Far Cry 3. I'm really looking forward to playing that mission but I like the song too much that that's realistically going to be the highlight of that mission.
Brutal legend actually does a great job incorporating licensed music into it's battles. Especially in the case of the final RTS Battle, All the songs used enhanced the mood of the situation getting me more into the game play.
Personally I put a large part of the problem with western game music down to the fact that apart from a few bit tune artists hardly any musician is a known name among gamers. Maybe if it was more like the Japanese industry good talent might be appreciated more. I think it also is part of a larger problem with the west as all our big names tend to be more known for making stupid statements than their work.
Also with folk mentioning David Bowie I thought I'd mention that he worked with Quantic Dream in their game Omicron: Nomad Soul and also played the part of two characters, one of which was of himself and a band performing is bars.
Also with folk mentioning David Bowie I thought I'd mention that he worked with Quantic Dream in their game Omicron: Nomad Soul and also played the part of two characters, one of which was of himself and a band performing is bars.
I totally agree, when I first heard that J-rock theme it felt abit jarring but all in all it got me pumped up to play a Japanese game rather than a 3rd grade rip off of a WRPG. As for the original theme in the demo, I can't even remember it, that's how generic it was.The Wykydtron said: