Games that are easy to learn and hard to master.
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No, fair enough actually. That bit where you have to do a circus sequence perfectly while your dad criticises you and the water rises... I had to give up, go to bed and approach that fresh on another day, that was punishing.DeadlyYellow said:
I have an answer:
Pokemon
Right now the Metagame is unbalanced but if one knows what they are doing, then they can win with ANY pokemon.
Pokemon
Right now the Metagame is unbalanced but if one knows what they are doing, then they can win with ANY pokemon.
Go with Starcraft. It's easy to learn. Build a base (SimCity fun!), build an army, attack-move to victory.
Build stuff that looks cool, hope it survives the war. People who do bad are paired against other people who do bad so you have a 40% chance of winning most matches.
Build stuff that looks cool, hope it survives the war. People who do bad are paired against other people who do bad so you have a 40% chance of winning most matches.
Team Fortress 2 is the best example I can think of. On the surface, it's very simple, and it's easy to get into and start playing. But you quickly discover the astounding depth there is to gameplay strategy. Highly recommended.
For single-player I'd say something like Ikaruga or Rez. Almost any platformer or bullet-hell game, really.
For single-player I'd say something like Ikaruga or Rez. Almost any platformer or bullet-hell game, really.
Millions of specatators sit in awwed silence, waiting to see TheYellowCellPhone in his natural environment. His bait, a thread about games, it thrown into the field; no one will know if he will actually post in it.
Then, TheYellowCellPhone comes out, having taken the bait. The audience sits at the edge of their seats to see him say, that one game he's always said.
Team Fortress 2.
And he moves off, amid the paparazzi of people saying, "I've finally seen it first hand!
Then, TheYellowCellPhone comes out, having taken the bait. The audience sits at the edge of their seats to see him say, that one game he's always said.
Team Fortress 2.
And he moves off, amid the paparazzi of people saying, "I've finally seen it first hand!
Super Meat Boy, simple right? Left and Right and Jump buttons, how hard can it be?
Binding of Isaac, Dungeons of Dreadmor from what I understand, most indy games fall into this category I guess?
Binding of Isaac, Dungeons of Dreadmor from what I understand, most indy games fall into this category I guess?
Call of Duty is definitely not one, it is very easy to pick up and play and after you play each map about 5 times you'll learn the regular hot spots and be able to survive mostly. A lot has to do with luck though.
If shooters are you're thing, I would suggest TF2 (good game and its free). Alternatively try to stick to shooters that don't have such small health bars that you die in 1-2 hits. Older Halos, KZ2, Resistance 2.
RTS games are also good. Usually getting through the first couple levels in the campaign will teach you enough to play the game, but they are notoriously hard to master.
Also I would highly recommend you try out League of Legends. Great game, good fun, but since its almost entirely PvP it is very difficult to master since it requires a good ability to adapt.
You said not fighting games which is a shame cause those are the purest example, but basically you want to stick to games that have a large focus on PvP, and do not contain one or too many stupid exploitable tactics (see camping and noob tubing).
If shooters are you're thing, I would suggest TF2 (good game and its free). Alternatively try to stick to shooters that don't have such small health bars that you die in 1-2 hits. Older Halos, KZ2, Resistance 2.
RTS games are also good. Usually getting through the first couple levels in the campaign will teach you enough to play the game, but they are notoriously hard to master.
Also I would highly recommend you try out League of Legends. Great game, good fun, but since its almost entirely PvP it is very difficult to master since it requires a good ability to adapt.
You said not fighting games which is a shame cause those are the purest example, but basically you want to stick to games that have a large focus on PvP, and do not contain one or too many stupid exploitable tactics (see camping and noob tubing).
Morrowind is one of these. Yeah, you can do alright with one of the basic classes and can pick up the skills you need fairly easily, but it takes a lot of time to figure out how to make your own class and get used to a lot of the weird gameplay quirks (like how you have to set your weapon to "always best attack" to succeed).
I don't think Starcraft or Street Fighter are all that easy to learn.
While I can do the Street Fighter specials, it did require a fair bit of practise before I could do them and I still have trouble pulling off Supers/Ultras consistently. Maybe I just suck. I also doubt that a newcomer will know the significant moves of every character until they've put in 20-30 hours. You will probably find yourself looking up the control inputs for special moves even after 100 hours of playing.
Starcraft also takes time to learn the basics like what the various units do and how the tech trees work. The concepts of explosive/concussive damage are rather tricky because you have to remember unit sizes. The way the Devourers' attack works is rather arcane and many players do not seem to know how it works. Once again, it will be some time before a newcomer really knows the rules of the game.
I'd say the chinese board game Go was the best example. After about ten minutes of play, a noob will understand the rules. But it has as much depth as chess, possibly more. It also has a handicap system so rank beginners don't have to deal with the frustration of never winning.
More games need a handicap system IMO. Suppose in Starcraft 2, instead of segregating players by skill, they just made the worker unit more expensive for the better player. This would avoid a common noob problem, that often there isn't anyone online who sucks as badly as you, especially for older games.
While I can do the Street Fighter specials, it did require a fair bit of practise before I could do them and I still have trouble pulling off Supers/Ultras consistently. Maybe I just suck. I also doubt that a newcomer will know the significant moves of every character until they've put in 20-30 hours. You will probably find yourself looking up the control inputs for special moves even after 100 hours of playing.
Starcraft also takes time to learn the basics like what the various units do and how the tech trees work. The concepts of explosive/concussive damage are rather tricky because you have to remember unit sizes. The way the Devourers' attack works is rather arcane and many players do not seem to know how it works. Once again, it will be some time before a newcomer really knows the rules of the game.
I'd say the chinese board game Go was the best example. After about ten minutes of play, a noob will understand the rules. But it has as much depth as chess, possibly more. It also has a handicap system so rank beginners don't have to deal with the frustration of never winning.
More games need a handicap system IMO. Suppose in Starcraft 2, instead of segregating players by skill, they just made the worker unit more expensive for the better player. This would avoid a common noob problem, that often there isn't anyone online who sucks as badly as you, especially for older games.
Bad Jim said:
No, seriously, that's a good idea. I like it.
OT: I'm going to say something that no one's said yet: Katamari Damacy.
It's the simplest game in the world to learn, roll the ball, roll up small things, get bigger, and roll up bigger things.
But getting high scores? Collecting every object? Unlocking everything in the game? It takes skill to get that good.
Uh Magic 2012? You know the video game version of Magic the Gathering. They're still making new decks for that surprisingly, it's actually relatively popular, seeing as Magic cards are expensive as fuck.
It can get crazy, so many good creatures and spells can be made redundant by the way the game flows. Even having an army of flying crap can become useless when he's summoning 4 creatures per turn and your lands have dried up
Hell you can have an army of creatures but you have this one asshole flying creature punching you in the face.
I can say it's usually a game of stalemates, "he has an army, i have an army i'm not throwing my army against his unless i know i will win" until someone draws an instakill/board clearing creature. Then it gets interesting
And yeah fighting games in general. Still playing UMVC3 surprisingly, my love for Phoenix Wright is still burning bright...
It can get crazy, so many good creatures and spells can be made redundant by the way the game flows. Even having an army of flying crap can become useless when he's summoning 4 creatures per turn and your lands have dried up
Hell you can have an army of creatures but you have this one asshole flying creature punching you in the face.
I can say it's usually a game of stalemates, "he has an army, i have an army i'm not throwing my army against his unless i know i will win" until someone draws an instakill/board clearing creature. Then it gets interesting
And yeah fighting games in general. Still playing UMVC3 surprisingly, my love for Phoenix Wright is still burning bright...
Puzzle Fighter and the Magical Drop games are extremely easy to pick up and have fun with but with enough practice high-level play is SO DAMN FAST in both games. They actually get pretty hard to follow if the players are quick enough and skilled enough.
Team Fortress 2 definitely. The graphics also seem to play a role in the whole on first look simplicity. Plenty of people I know will dismiss it for its "bad/cartoon" graphics. Then they play it, and get hooked.
Disgaea is like that, you can win most battles by being straightforward or just grinding to hell regardless of how terrible you are at it but to actually play it right and get max rewards out of these same fights you need to master it's many many MANY systems and formulate a deep strategical plan.
Any old school FPS I'd say (first comes to my head, sorry). Quake, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Doom and the like. For example, the thing you can do in Quake 1 I was not aware of until many, many years after I played (such as rocket jumping, nade jumping, etc).