Games That Controdict Themselfs

[FalloutJack]

Despite my love for them, most Rockstar games contradict themselves.

Can...I have an example? I don't follow.

Really? I thought the contradiction in those games was blatantly obvious.

Niko Bellic in GTA IV is anti-violence and a man of strong morals yet rampages around the city killing people because some shady gang lord tells him too. Quite often in situations where he doesn't really have to.

Ah, well there's the rub. I don't have GTA IV. I have San Andreas, for randomly walking around and killing things. Does it have contradictions as well? Just curious.

Not so much. CJ isn't as "good" as Niko and John are. The problem was that in GTA IV and RDR Rockstar put a heavy emphasis on character, which is bound to cause contradictions in an open world game because their morality should restrict the players actions - but it obviously can't. So all you are left with is confusion. CJ isn't anywhere near as developed as the latter two are.

Some guys ain't deep. I'm with it.

 

[Magicman10893]

Dragon age origins boasts the wardens to have the right of conscription yet you're never allowed to use it whilst your trying to raise an army to fight the darkspawn

also, grey wardens are supposed to be the most adept at fighting darkspawn how come characters like Shale are 10 times more effective then?

This always baffles me. Apparently the Joining gives Grey Wardens their power to fight Darkspawn...yet you have to kill several groups of them to get to the Joining, and you do so with ease. Not to mention that if your a Dwarf Noble that number of pre-Joining Darkspawn you destroy goes up significantly.

And of course your non-Warden companions are equally as effective against Darkspawn as you and Alistair are.

Consistency is nice!

The joining doesn't give them any sort of advantage in combat with the darkspawn.
The joining allows a Grey Warden to master the taint and sense darkspawn in the same way that they sense eachother and receive comminication from the Arch Demon.

Granted this isn't really elaborated on in the game, but it is explained. Also, the Arch Demon needs to be slain by someone infected with the taint whose intention is to destroy it. Otherwise it's spirit will infect the nearest taint driven being and transform it into another Arch Demon.

I was just about to say this until you said it.

Not sure if this is a real contradiction, but in New Vegas you are shot in the head, then you get revenge on the guy that does it. Then you have to help either the NCR, Caesar's Legion or Mr House take over the world. Why? I don't really know. I remember Mr House will pay you to do it if you ask him why you should help him, but what do the other guys offer? Exactly.

Also, I decided to help the NCR because I apparently needed to help someone in order to finish the game, and while doing that I kill Caesar and his entire army at his base by myself. Doesn't that mean the NCR wins the war? I killed Caesar, his whole battalion, his camp at Nelson, Cottonwood Cove and everywhere else, but somehow there is still an army that posses a threat to the NCR? Oh, I see, Caesar's until-now-never-mentioned second in command steps in. Well, where is he? Oh, he doesn't come in until the very final battle at the Hoover Dam, which is coincidentally where he is introduced in the plot line? This story sucks! It's a good thing the game play is fun cause the story is about as well put together as a puddle of diarrhea!

 

[glyphseeker]

i think the metal gear solid games now hear me out

all the times they break the 4th wall count 'em (cause I dont wanna)

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Dragon age origins boasts the wardens to have the right of conscription yet you're never allowed to use it whilst your trying to raise an army to fight the darkspawn

also, grey wardens are supposed to be the most adept at fighting darkspawn how come characters like Shale are 10 times more effective then?

This always baffles me. Apparently the Joining gives Grey Wardens their power to fight Darkspawn...yet you have to kill several groups of them to get to the Joining, and you do so with ease. Not to mention that if your a Dwarf Noble that number of pre-Joining Darkspawn you destroy goes up significantly.

And of course your non-Warden companions are equally as effective against Darkspawn as you and Alistair are.

Consistency is nice!

The joining doesn't give them any sort of advantage in combat with the darkspawn.
The joining allows a Grey Warden to master the taint and sense darkspawn in the same way that they sense eachother and receive comminication from the Arch Demon.

Granted this isn't really elaborated on in the game, but it is explained. Also, the Arch Demon needs to be slain by someone infected with the taint whose intention is to destroy it. Otherwise it's spirit will infect the nearest taint driven being and transform it into another Arch Demon.

I was just about to say this until you said it.

Not sure if this is a real contradiction, but in New Vegas you are shot in the head, then you get revenge on the guy that does it. Then you have to help either the NCR, Caesar's Legion or Mr House take over the world. Why? I don't really know. I remember Mr House will pay you to do it if you ask him why you should help him, but what do the other guys offer? Exactly.

Also, I decided to help the NCR because I apparently needed to help someone in order to finish the game, and while doing that I kill Caesar and his entire army at his base by myself. Doesn't that mean the NCR wins the war? I killed Caesar, his whole battalion, his camp at Nelson, Cottonwood Cove and everywhere else, but somehow there is still an army that posses a threat to the NCR? Oh, I see, Caesar's until-now-never-mentioned second in command steps in. Well, where is he? Oh, he doesn't come in until the very final battle at the Hoover Dam, which is coincidentally where he is introduced in the plot line? This story sucks! It's a good thing the game play is fun cause the story is about as well put together as a puddle of diarrhea!

You know the Legate is actually mentioned quite a fair bit, when i wasnt even helping the legion i still heard a shitload about Legate Lanius, its not so much that he was never mentioned, you just werent listening or didnt talk to many people

 

[Halceon]

-Timesplitters three: (while im sure this will start an argument), the aim of this game is to destroy the time crystells (thus saving earth)....at the end of the game their is a MASSIVE paradox

AFter using the time crystells to time travel to the place the time crystells were discovered, you set a time bomb before time traveling back to the present day....by the way the time crysetel's are esential to time travel....think about it

If it's a time bomb, surely it doesn't destroy the crystals until they're gone?

Which removes the chance of time travel from all subsequent timeliines, making them unable to return to the point of discovery and blow up the crystals. It's basically the grandfather paradox, nothing new.

 

[Magicman10893]

I was just about to say this until you said it.

Not sure if this is a real contradiction, but in New Vegas you are shot in the head, then you get revenge on the guy that does it. Then you have to help either the NCR, Caesar's Legion or Mr House take over the world. Why? I don't really know. I remember Mr House will pay you to do it if you ask him why you should help him, but what do the other guys offer? Exactly.

Also, I decided to help the NCR because I apparently needed to help someone in order to finish the game, and while doing that I kill Caesar and his entire army at his base by myself. Doesn't that mean the NCR wins the war? I killed Caesar, his whole battalion, his camp at Nelson, Cottonwood Cove and everywhere else, but somehow there is still an army that posses a threat to the NCR? Oh, I see, Caesar's until-now-never-mentioned second in command steps in. Well, where is he? Oh, he doesn't come in until the very final battle at the Hoover Dam, which is coincidentally where he is introduced in the plot line? This story sucks! It's a good thing the game play is fun cause the story is about as well put together as a puddle of diarrhea!

You know the Legate is actually mentioned quite a fair bit, when i wasnt even helping the legion i still heard a shitload about Legate Lanius, its not so much that he was never mentioned, you just werent listening or didnt talk to many people

I guess I was too busy being shot at by the crazy people that like ruthlessly slaughter and crucify their enemies to take the time and have a conversation with one of them.

 

[Irridium]

I think it's more so that he puts his teams in risky situations, he wants them to succeed, but is smart enough to use even their failures to his own benefit.

He probably would. If you hadn't wiped out those bases and gave the data to the Shadow Broker/Alliance. Speaking of that, why isn't it mentioned in ME2 at all? Or even in the Shadow Broker DLC?

Well, he's called the "Illusive Man" for a reason.

Your confusing "Illusive" with "Elusive". If he was "Illusive", he'd be nothing more then an illusion, a farce, not really real.

If he was "Elusive", then that would fit, but Bioware may have mixed the two up... And besides, I'm fairly sure at least one mook you kill would have a log that mentions him. Unless they're actually smart, in which case it would be a first for those kinds of enemies.

Unless they meant him to be a symbol of the "Illusion of choice", in which case he fits perfectly.

In the end you're probably right, but I wouldn't call it a contradiction. Simply Bioware wasn't fully aware of where they were bringing Mass Effect at the time. Really Cerberus' role in ME2 is a bandaid to work around the whole issue of the council living/dying. By making Cerberus take the role previously had by the council in ME1, they were able to pretty much ignore your decision from the original.

I don't think Cerberus is meant to be a secret organization, so much as an organization that conducts secrets.

Well thats not too promising for the third game. From the start they said they wanted to make a trilogy. They'd be able to plan out each game carefully, and have a well-crafted series of events that could easily flow between each game. They'd be able to minimize contradictions, tie up plot points nice and neat, and plan out which consequence of what choice goes where. Plus, marketing your game based on "your choices shape the galaxy", then pretty much ignoring them in the second, is not a good thing.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I remember in the use first GBA Fire Emblem (Eliwood, Lyn and Hector) the threat to the story is the dragons and yet one of the unit you control is the dragon rider/ dragon lord. Ok granted they rename it to Wyvern rider and lord (but in the FE franchise, it had always been dragon) but they still look like dragons.

 

[DracoSuave]

Someone didn't beat Dragon Age.


Grey Wardens have the ability to stop the Blight.

This is an entirely different sort of thing that goes above and beyond beating up darkspawn, and the method of doing so requires darkspawn taint in a person without them becoming corrupted and/or killed by it.

also, grey wardens are supposed to be the most adept at fighting darkspawn how come characters like Shale are 10 times more effective then?

This always baffles me. Apparently the Joining gives Grey Wardens their power to fight Darkspawn...yet you have to kill several groups of them to get to the Joining, and you do so with ease. Not to mention that if your a Dwarf Noble that number of pre-Joining Darkspawn you destroy goes up significantly.[/quote]

Dwarves are good at fighting darkspawn because when there isn't a blight, the darkspawn are hanging around the Deep Roads causing trouble.

It's mentioned in the game, many dwarves are unwilling to care about a Blight, because to them, it's ALWAYS the Blight.

And of course your non-Warden companions are equally as effective against Darkspawn as you and Alistair are.

Consistency is nice!

None of your companions, have any ability to stop the Blight. Anyone can defeat a darkspawn, given enough skill. Only a Grey Warden can defeat an Archdaemon. It's not because of the Grey Warden's skill... it's because of the taint, and because of what an Archdaemon is.

Dragon age origins boasts the wardens to have the right of conscription yet you're never allowed to use it whilst your trying to raise an army to fight the darkspawn

ORLY?

Consistancies explained in spoiler text

Spoiler

Grey Wardens are those that can handle the darkspawn taint necessary so that the Archdaemon's soul, when the body is killed, will enter their body. Then they kill themselves before the Archdaemon can be born, thusly destroying the Old God. Destroying the Archdaemon's body is not enough, as the Old God will simply be reborn in another corrupted body. They are the only ones with the knowledge of how to do this, and the only ones who have the physical capacity to do so. It's the entire reason why they consume the taint. Everything else, darkspawn detection (your character can detect darkspawn on the minimap at a longer range than other enemies), the nightmare connection to the Archdaemon, the shortened lifespan... those are just sideeffects of the technique that heads towards that one singular purpose.

So, yeah, only Grey Wardens can stop the Blight.

The reason you cannot recruit is because the ritual materials for the Ferelden chapter needed to ensure the survival of SOME of the Grey Wardens is lost during Loghain's betrayal. It isn't until you find the Grey Warden from Orlais, and his ritual components, that the Joining can be done again. Once you have access to those, you can bet your ass you have the ability to use the Rite of Conscription. Loghain's Joining is bitter sweet, should you choose to do so.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

I think it's more so that he puts his teams in risky situations, he wants them to succeed, but is smart enough to use even their failures to his own benefit.

He probably would. If you hadn't wiped out those bases and gave the data to the Shadow Broker/Alliance. Speaking of that, why isn't it mentioned in ME2 at all? Or even in the Shadow Broker DLC?

This is an easy one, because not everyone did the option Cerberus quests from the original ME. So it's easier just to avoid the topic.

Well, he's called the "Illusive Man" for a reason.

Your confusing "Illusive" with "Elusive". If he was "Illusive", he'd be nothing more then an illusion, a farce, not really real.

If he was "Elusive", then that would fit, but Bioware may have mixed the two up... And besides, I'm fairly sure at least one mook you kill would have a log that mentions him. Unless they're actually smart, in which case it would be a first for those kinds of enemies.

Unless they meant him to be a symbol of the "Illusion of choice", in which case he fits perfectly.

There could be some question as towards if he really exists (though, you'd think that'd make people talk about him more, people love mysteries). Perhaps he wasn't quite so active prior to the attack on the Citadel.

In the end you're probably right, but I wouldn't call it a contradiction. Simply Bioware wasn't fully aware of where they were bringing Mass Effect at the time. Really Cerberus' role in ME2 is a bandaid to work around the whole issue of the council living/dying. By making Cerberus take the role previously had by the council in ME1, they were able to pretty much ignore your decision from the original.

I don't think Cerberus is meant to be a secret organization, so much as an organization that conducts secrets.

Well thats not too promising for the third game. From the start they said they wanted to make a trilogy. They'd be able to plan out each game carefully, and have a well-crafted series of events that could easily flow between each game. They'd be able to minimize contradictions, tie up plot points nice and neat, and plan out which consequence of what choice goes where. Plus, marketing your game based on "your choices shape the galaxy", then pretty much ignoring them in the second, is not a good thing.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not a huge Mass Effect fan (or much of one at all for that matter), just playing devil's advocate I suppose. Like I said, I don't think the game contradicts itself as much as them making it up as they go.

The way I see it the choices you made throughout the trilogy will have little to no effect on the gameplay, but determine what ending you get.

 

[MetalMantheRevenge]

Resident Evil 5.
They force you to work together, yet the partner AI is as thick as a concrete and cinderblock sandwich.

 

[DracoSuave]

First of Morrigan has the ability to kill the arch demon

It requires a Grey Warden to implant a Grey Warden-blooded baby in her womb... considering the plan was Flemeth and what Flemeth is, that knowledge isn't exactly common.

secondly your companions never succumb to the darkspawn taint

Admittedly this one is a bit odd.

Thirdly You say they have this knowledge of how to kill the arch demon, where did it come from Duncan says the only thing that happens is that you can sense darkspawn and your dreams and thoughts are linked to those of the arch demon

Duncan didn't exactly live long enough to give you all the inner knowledge of how to Grey Warden. That's kind of the point of the entire quest... Alistair knows about the dark bits about the dreams and all that, but he's a fairly recent convert himself... certainly not long enough to know how to perform the Joining, or what -exactly- to do vs. an Archdaemon.

That's actually mentioned in the narrative, how you know you're supposed to rally the armies (because you have the treaties) but beyond that, knowledge of what to do with those armies is completely unknown to you and Alistair.

You clearly haven't beaten the game... or else you'd know this knowledge is eventually found, in the form of a visiting Grey Warden from Orlais that you rescue in Howe's mansion. Once you rescue him and recover his Grey Warden supply, everything you couldn't do before or didn't know how to do is suddenly available.

And yes, you DO do all of those things. You can enact a Joining, you find out How To Stop Blight.

Fourthly The ritual thing is not explained unless you wantloghain in your party now if I must believe you or did I just forget that part, If So sorry
you seem to agree with me mostly yet apear to agree to disagree for the heck of it or something?

I disagree about it being inconsistent

Inconsistent means that it breaks its own rules. Dragon Age pretty much doesn't. You're a brand new Grey Warden, being taught what little you know by another Grey Warden who is new at this... the only one with knowledge of what to do is killed early on. It would be inconsistent if you DID have all that knowledge straight away.

As for Morrigan knowing everything... well, that's Flemeth's entire plan. Flemeth is an abomination above other abominations. She's the sort of thing that makes Pride Demons crap their pants. She is an ancient ancient being, and mysteriously connected with the Old Gods of Tevinter. The Old Gods ARE the Archdaemons. Her plan isn't to save Ferelden, it's to de-darkspawnize an Old God. And Old Gods were never GOOD. Morrigan is simply her pawn in this, she's just the woman Flemeth happened to have available at the time. Of course Morrigan would have to be let in on the plan. Killing Flemeth doesn't change the plan, as Morrigan--despite her bitchy ways--usually at this point has some sort of caring for your little team, and doesn't want to watch the only friends she has in the world sacrifice themselves.

Of course... Witching Hour was supposed to explain wtf happened there...

 

[Aurgelmir]

Dragon age origins boasts the wardens to have the right of conscription yet you're never allowed to use it whilst your trying to raise an army to fight the darkspawn

also, grey wardens are supposed to be the most adept at fighting darkspawn how come characters like Shale are 10 times more effective then?

Right of conscription means that the person becomes a Gray Warden, to do that you need the funky blood, which you don't have. Ergo no conscription.

Besides since most people fail the ritual it would be a waste of men to try and make them all wardens.

 

[psivamp]

Despite my love for them, most Rockstar games contradict themselves.

Can...I have an example? I don't follow.

Really? I thought the contradiction in those games was blatantly obvious.

Niko Bellic in GTA IV is anti-violence and a man of strong morals yet rampages around the city killing people because some shady gang lord tells him too. Quite often in situations where he doesn't really have to.

John Martson in Red Dead Redemption is also, a good person - yet in one mission he burns down the houses of innocent people barely protesting. He also expresses his disgust with Seth looting the dead, yet does the exact same thing quite often.

There are hundreds of examples, those are just the two that came to mind.

In both cases, they are flawed people who have used violence in the past and when pushed go back to what they know. It's the same story as the Chinese Connection.

Now I have to watch some Bruce Lee... reading these forums keeps making me replay old games or watch old movies...

 

[Valkyrie101]

READ A DICTIONARY, FOOL!

and back on topic, I think Splinter Cell has kind of always bugged me.
Mainly because you don't want to kill anyone, but you seriously don't. Airfoils, sticky shockers and sticky cameras are abundant and make the game way too easy

Another thing about that game: in Double Agent at least, killing guards lowers your stealth score more than if you knock them out. That doesn't make sense. Whether you dispatch them lethally or otherwise makes no difference, aside from the fact that, if left alive, they will later wake up and be able to tell their comrades what happened. They might not have much to tell, but the chances are some information will be gleaned. At best, they'll know absolutely nothing, and there'll be no difference.