games where you can be evil or at least moral ambiugous and it effects the game

[Spacewolf]

i recently played overlord 2 and i quite liked the dark comedy of it especially gnarl, yet i was quite disapointed by the lack of replayability. Im also not to fond of just black and white decisions i prefer grey with far reaching implications. Unfortunatly i havent really found any games like this (KOTOR1 has probably been my most liked one so far simply because it was quite fun, and i liked doing an impression of the "unlimited power" bit as i zapped people)

 

[Yureina]

Fallout New Vegas may have some potential for this, but I otherwise agree that being morally grey in games usually does not seem to yield any especially interesting results.

 

[xdgt]

Well if you're into grey moral choices with far reaching consequences you should check out witcher its plain awesome in that aspect.I can't wait for witcher 2 to come out already.

 

[P.Tsunami]

It isn't really a choice of good and evil, but your allegiances in Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines greatly affect the later game. On the flip side, Fable. Seems to me the only real difference is appearance and people running screaming.

 

[xdgt]

V:tm redemption actually had more moral choices with a big focus on humanity stat while Bloodlines was more action oriented but i liked both.

 

[nick_knack]

Mass..Effect? Anyone?

 

[xdgt]

Mass..Effect? Anyone?

Don't be silly! A Bioware game with moral choices and a storyline?BAH!
*Heavy Sarcasm*

 

[HyperboleKitty]

Mass..Effect? Anyone?

It does allow you to be an evil, news reporter punching jackass that much is certain. : )
However, the OP does state just how bland black and white decisions can be(agreeable) and from when I was playing Mass Effect 1 & 2 a lot of what you could do in that game did feel like it was either a black or white decision.

Dragon Age: Origins does a much better approach though and it really helps that you can do *alot* more in that game. It's alot more flexible with choices but it is still fairly black and white in terms of decisions that you need to make. Personally, I used Morrigan's approval ratings as a personal litmus test to decide if i'm making the right choices or not : P

 

[nick_knack]

Mass..Effect? Anyone?

It does allow you to be an evil, news reporter punching jackass that much is certain. : )
However, the OP does state just how bland black and white decisions can be(agreeable) and from when I was playing Mass Effect 1 & 2 a lot of what you could do in that game did feel like it was either a black or white decision.

Dragon Age: Origins does a much better approach though and it really helps that you can do *alot* more in that game. It's alot more flexible with choices but it is still fairly black and white in terms of decisions that you need to make. Personally, I used Morrigan's approval ratings as a personal litmus test to decide if i'm making the right choices or not : P

Just because most situations in that game give you two options does not by any measure mean that either is black or white. I mean, yes having a morality system with two outcomes is rather..limiting, but I for one thought the endgame decisions was extremely gray, all the different facets of consideration, possible motivations for your character, the Paragon/Renegade system didn't do it justice. (My Renegade Shep made the Paragon choices because I imagined him to be coldly considering politics over everything else.)

Which is not to say that Par/Ren is black and white in and of itself, I think that game does a very good job of avoiding the trappings of "Good" and "Evil".

Another good example would be that quest on the Citadel where you talk with that lady and help her decide whether to get gene therapy for her baby or not. Neither of the outcomes could possibly leave you feeling like a good or bad guy.

 

[SoxFan96]

Well you mentioned KoTOR. While KoTOR 2 is less complete (mods can change that) the choices have a much greater impact. The party members notice your choices and they will react to them.

 

[Chamale]

Fallout 3 had a mission where if you nobly helped out the Ghouls at Tenpenny Tower

Spoiler

their corrupt leader kills the entire human population. It pissed people off because your "detect evil" ability completely failed to give any warning, and even afterwards considered the genocide's planner to be a good person.

There were also 2 evil ways to complete the quest. One of them ultimately had the most moral consequences, but in keeping with the spirit of Fallout 3, it offered the least reward.

 

[xdgt]

Well if we're on Bioware, can I mention Jade Empire - played it through atleast 3 times and saw quite a bunch of different choices though mostly 2 different ends of the stick.

 

[HyperboleKitty]

Wish this board had a decent quote function. : S

Just because most situations in that game give you two options does not by any measure mean that either is black or white.

Of course it doesn't. But particularly in Mass Effect 1 and 2 the options were pretty damn clear cut on the moral compass of which option to choose and which one not to choose. Hell I believe I did also address this in my statement about dragon age by flat out stating that the choices in there could also be black and white despite its flexibility in choices.

Which is not to say that Par/Ren is black and white in and of itself, I think that game does a very good job of avoiding the trappings of "Good" and "Evil".

Granted, though I personally don't consider the whole black and white schema to be an issue of good and evil (at least in the context of RPG gaming) just merely two extremes that are available in terms of choices. And while there was no technical good vs evil that was seen in ME2 I found that there was alot of "asshole" vs "nice-guy" stuff in there to make the game seem pretty black and white to me.

Another good example would be that quest on the Citadel where you talk with that lady and help her decide whether to get gene therapy for her baby or not. Neither of the outcomes could possibly leave you feeling like a good or bad guy.

As I said before in ME it was *most* of the decisions that were made in the game. I left some wiggle room for the anecdotal situations like that one : ) Although when I was playing it, it felt like it was the only hard call that I had to make. I think the choice between Kaiden and Ashley could be considered another hard one, but I felt that could easily be derived based on who was deployed where.

 

[Waweegee]

Fable 2. My Karma was so good at one point, I ran into Bowerstone, Pelvic Thrusted a Group of Villagers, ran up to another group of villagers, flipped them the bird, and ran out again. My popularity rose, for christsake!

 

[Eyelicker]

I know it's pretty old, but the suffering.

Depending on whether you go to the troble of helping people or just letting them die/butchering them for fun changes the nature in which you killed your family at the beginning.

Pretty grim stuff, but awesome story/game/charactors

good, neutral and bad endings, and this was before every game had like, 5 endings and a moral compass.

 

[Sev72]

The obvious one is KotOR one and two. Characters would get pissy at you, the endgame would change, areas would be opened up or destroyed etc... depending on your choices.