Gay in The Last of Us: Left Behind (SPOILERS)

[[REDACTED]]

Token characters (or scenes) are so much better, clearly.

Please explain to me how having the protagonist of a game that already had gay characters turn out to be gay herself is "tokenism". Seriously, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Ickorus]

]

Token characters (or scenes) are so much better, clearly.

Please explain to me how having the protagonist of a game that already had gay characters turn out to be gay herself is "tokenism". Seriously, I'd love to hear it.

Simple: The kiss was added as an afterthought, there was nothing alluding to an attraction prior and no change in the dynamic of their relationship afterwards.

Bill, on the other hand, clearly had some thought put into him, his sexuality was only alluded to (respecting the intelligence of the player to figure it out) and his relationship with his partner was fairly complex considering how short his part in the story is.

Launchpad had the right of it, it was a cynical attempt at pandering to a specific audience.

 

[[REDACTED]]

]

Token characters (or scenes) are so much better, clearly.

Please explain to me how having the protagonist of a game that already had gay characters turn out to be gay herself is "tokenism". Seriously, I'd love to hear it.

Simple: The kiss was added as an afterthought, there was nothing alluding to an attraction prior and no change in the dynamic of their relationship afterwards.

Bill, on the other hand, clearly had some thought put into him, his sexuality was only alluded to (respecting the intelligence of the player to figure it out) and his relationship with his partner was fairly complex considering how short his part in the story is.

Launchpad had the right of it, it was a cynical attempt at pandering to a specific audience.

There wasn't any change in the dynamic of their relationship because the kiss happened just before the end of the story. A little lazy maybe, but justifiable.

And I suppose it's subjective, but the kiss seemed to fit in perfectly well with what had come before. It wasn't obviously foreshadowed, but it wasn't jarring either.

Sorry for being hostile; I just see "tokenism" used as an argument against including minority characters so frickin' often that I automatically assume the worst. Christ, I'm one step away from starting a Tumblr, aren't I?

Anyway, I just don't see it as tokenism if sexuality is included as another aspect of an already well-established character. Nothing wrong with throwing in some arbitrary diversity if it doesn't contradict previous characterization or become a dominant feature of the character.

 

[Wargamer]

I didn't even think Bill was gay. Ever. I assumed that Ellie was just making jokes; it never occurred to me to take them in any way seriously.

 

[Saetha]

I didn't even think Bill was gay. Ever. I assumed that Ellie was just making jokes; it never occurred to me to take them in any way seriously.

Really? He kept referring to that one guy as his "partner" (Complete with significant pause before doing so) the note said partner left definitely sounded personal, like it was from a close friend of lover that one had a falling out with. Combine that with the fact that they had a gay nudie mag lying around... seemed pretty obvious to me.

 

[Saetha]

]

]

Token characters (or scenes) are so much better, clearly.

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There wasn't any change in the dynamic of their relationship because the kiss happened just before the end of the story. A little lazy maybe, but justifiable.

Lazy writing's still just lazy writing. And considering how romance is usually a big deal for teenagers, it feels weird that they just kinda left it hanging. I feel like there should have been more resolution there (Granted, I also think we should've seen Riley die onscreen, rather than just have a lame "Come on, let's get out of here.")

I really do hate this line of thinking, though, how some people are all too happy to give something a free pass in the quality department because it's progressive. Arbitrary characteristics like race and sexuality do not dictate a story's quality.

 

[[REDACTED]]

I really do hate this line of thinking, though, how some people are all too happy to give something a free pass in the quality department because it's progressive. Arbitrary characteristics like race and sexuality do not dictate a story's quality.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I was saying that the lack of change in character dynamic was justified by the plot, not that the plot was justified by the gay.

 

[Goofguy]

It's hard to say if Ellie is gay or just "caught in the moment"... so to speak. Emotions and hormones were running high with Riley leaving the following day and the strong potential they'd never see each other again in a world where you can die/become infected at any moment.

Honestly, I saw it as more of a set up to the "punch to the gut" moment seeing as how they never get to capitalize on their relationship. Riley quits the Fireflies so she and Ellie can go off together and conveniently for the narrative, they're immediately set upon by infected. We already know that they're both going to get bitten and that only one of them will make it through it. Ellie potentially being gay seems like the easy way to make that harder to bear.

 

[Saetha]

]

I really do hate this line of thinking, though, how some people are all too happy to give something a free pass in the quality department because it's progressive. Arbitrary characteristics like race and sexuality do not dictate a story's quality.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I was saying that the lack of change in character dynamic was justified by the plot, not that the plot was justified by the gay.

Ah, so you didn't. Apologies, I see arguments such as those so often that I sort of jumped to conclusions. Sorry for assuming.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I didn't say the entire world revolved around it - I'm saying it has blighted Ellie's life since conception.

One of the things that Last of Us does right is to explore how people react when the world goes to hell. A lot of the "villains" in the game are people just doing what they feel is necessary to survive. Do some of them enjoy it a bit too much? Yeah, sure, but if you listen carefully you'll hear the cannibals talk about the women and children they're trying to feed, and there are notes about raiders who despise their overly kill-hungry peers.

David is a villain, yes, but his death is not satisfying; it's horrifying. What Ellie does to him is brutal, so much so that we aren't even allowed to see the result. Instead, we see Ellie reduced to a mewling infant by the horror of what she just did, and the knowledge of what he would have done had she not killed him.

You aren't meant to feel satisfied when David dies, just as you aren't meant to root for Joel when he tortures people, or be entertained when Ellie tears people's throats out with her knife. You are supposed to be appalled, even sickened by it. And to a degree, so are the characters. The brutality has become a part of their life, and they are increasingly numb to it. Ellie is shell-shocked by her initial kill, but by the end she is almost enjoying it.

The Last of Us is a horror game at heart; it is bleak, brutal and disturbing, and every time it looks as though there is light at the end of the tunnel it turns out to be someone's house burning down.

Well, yes and no. When strictly speaking of the in-game violence, it has that primordial sense of conquest that goes along with bashing someone's skull in, immediately followed by a feeling of disgust at what you've just done. Just listen to that sickening yet satisfying thwack of the pipe or baseball bat. This is what makes the action so well matched for the setting; It's civilisation returning to survival of the fittest. And all those sensations that go along with it.

It's also used to great effect during the section where Ellie covers Joel with the rifle. Afterward there's a very charming yet twisted moment of bonding between the two, as Ellie seeks appreciation for her action and Joel finally trusts her with a firearm. It's sweet because they bond, but they're doing it over the concept of murder.

Or those short expressions of satisfaction from Ellie when she kills someone. Out of context she sounds like a kid catching a baseball during a game or something. But within the context she's exclamating it after shooting someone in the head.

In regards to David, it's not so much the killing as it is Ellie getting the better of him after his numerous attempts to subdue, manipulate, and lure her.

 

[[REDACTED]]

]Please don't put words in my mouth. I was saying that the lack of change in character dynamic was justified by the plot, not that the plot was justified by the gay.

Ah, so you didn't. Apologies, I see arguments such as those so often that I sort of jumped to conclusions. Sorry for assuming.

No problem at all. Besides, I did the exact same thing a few posts up, so y'know, glass houses and all that.

 

[Cekil1]

I thought it was so fucking dumb!

It establishes a relationship between the two that you'd think would've impacted Ellie more than it seems to have in the main story. So now she's actually in love with Riley?! Whether it's genuine or just confusion, Ellie seems to think it's the former. This presumed young love then gets cut short when they both get bitten, but only Riley dies of it (which we don't even get to see). Ellie is then in no way scarred by her first infatuation dying, probably in front of her, only shortly after she confessed it.

And apart from that this just smacked of 'Let's make Ellie gay, the guys'll love it.'

So yeah, I'm gonna notch Left Behind under the 'Fuck you, that didn't happen' catagory.

What I hate to see is how we can't have a genuine lesbian character without someone mentioning it was just put in there for male fan service. Love it. Guys like gay women, therefore all gay women in games are there to appeal sexually to men. No decision was made for genuine interest in making the character gay, it was just trying to appeal to horny men.

Even though the girls in question are freaking 15 years old... seriously wtf.

I'm gonna have to agree with Dark here. It's not ALWAYS about appealing to Heterosexual guys, just MOST of the time. Buffy Summers suddenly being Bi is a better example of actual pandering.

 

[JackWestJr]

Thanks for the spoiler in damn title you moron.

 

[SporkySpork]

Also, on a tangential note, we really should have seen Riley die. That, and the effect it has on Ellie, would seem to fit as the natural conclusion to proceedings. But then they cut it short. They must have had their reasons, but be damned if I know what those reason are. I just hope one of them wasn't "Oh fuck, our mo-cap budget is running out!"

They also should've cut that whole Winter nonsense so we could've spent more time with Riley, and maybe have gotten to know and care for her. Action be damned.

Really, the only part of this DLC that had a genuine effect on me was when Ellie puts up a brave face and tells Riley she should just go before she gets caught by the military, but then as they're dancing to the music she breaks down and begs her to stay.

You realize that we had plenty of time to grow to care for Riley even if we didn't exactly learn a lot about her -- but then again we don't learn a lot about any of the characters. I refuse to believe that Riley wasn't a fleshed out character before she died, even if you haven't read the American Dreams comic. And as for not seeing her die, not showing it isn't a detriment to the experience. It makes you wonder if Ellie mercy killed her or just left her behind.

At least I can agree about the Winter chapter somewhat. While it was nice having some clarity about how Ellie moved Joel, and it showed more of Ellie's asskickery, but it just seemed a little token. And that last section was balls-bustingly difficult.