Gay Relationships

[FirstNameLastName]

it's doesnt matter if a civil marriage is between two men, two women or a man and a woman. it's not a gay marriage, it's just a marriage that doesnt involve God...

I'm probably being overly semantic here, but I don't think a marriage that isn't performed or blessed by a religious institution is missing a spiritual component. The spiritual aspect (or lack thereof) can be whatever the couple in question wishes it to be. I doubt that two gay Catholics would consider their marriage less blessed or, at worst, null and void because the Vatican thinks that they own the only correctly interpreted message of God, and thus refused the couple a church wedding.

No offence to any gay Catholics that may be reading this, but i find the concept to be rather silly.
As much as i dislike religious fundamentalists preaching their hate for the LGBT community, and as much as i do like seeing the church embrace a more progressive stance, i can't really vouch for the rationality behind these sorts of middle ground religious beliefs. The Bible is rather clear in this regard, and while various contradictions about this issue do exist (just as with virtually everything else in the bible) there really isn't enough ambiguity to interpret it any other way.
Unless people are going to follow the religion but just completely disregard everything written in scripture then i don't really see how gay Catholics can be anything more than people with a bad case of cognitive dissonance who refuse to commit one way or another.

As someone who doesn't practice any religion myself i do get the idea of not wanting to be restrained by religious rules, but i honestly find religious fundamentalists to be more philosophically grounded than people who believe that their actions will condemn them to hell yet do them anyway, or people who believe in the divine word of a scripture yet discard any aspects they dislike.

While i agree with that notion, revealed theology is inherently a declaration of understanding, at least to a certain level. That's basically the entire point of scripture.

Generally it depends how you interpret it. And in some stages the Bible is actually quite vague, even on this. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, and even the story of Sodom in Leviticus that gets trotted out all the time didn't actually mention homosexuality when it was brought up again in Ezekiel. You could argue it's more about unhospitality, especially as that's the only thing that was brought up again when it was mentioned for the second time.

And another thing, don't lie with a man like you would with a woman? Well if you don't plan on lying with a woman then that doesn't apply to you. That's something I've seen before.

Point is it's still ambiguous enough that there can be different interpretations. It's not as clear cut as you think.

I am aware about it being up to interpenetration, but i still don't buy that argument. The bible does seem rather explicit about its condemnation of homosexuality.

You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God

The sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

If something as explicit as "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act" can be interpenetrated to mean "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed ... something perfectly fine and pure in the eyes of god" then i don't really see the point in even following the bible if even this can be taken to mean absolutely anything.

But really, as i said, I'm fine with people who take this view, since i would rather Christians who accept gays than ones who don't. But I can't really say it's particularly consistent with the bible.
Though speaking as someone who doesn't believe the word of the bible, this is fine by me.

 

[Michel Henzel]

So we're pretty much all fine and dandy with homosexuality, but what about polygamy? How do people feel about someone's ability to have more than one true love and how would they feel if their significant other proposed the idea?

How do Escapians feel?

If it's between consenting adults and all are fine with it then I don't care, none of my damn business.

 

[Barbas]

I find them interesting, sometimes more so than heterosexual relationships and sometimes less so, depending on the players involved. Regardless of who the players are, however, their right to happiness trumps anyone else's perceived right to judge or accost them for it. I'm impressed and not a little awe-inspired when I think about the sort of progress I've been fortunate to bear witness to over the last decade alone.

 

[Mister K]

Sorry, I'll have to use swearings, but I do not give a f*ck about who is f*cking who unless they want to f*ck me and I only care about it because I want to f*ck with the person I love, i.e. my lady.

Just, don't shove it down my throat.

 

[The White Hunter]

People can do whatever they please and deserve to be treated with equality.

This applies to any such classification of the populace.

Also bisexual, so y'know.

 

[Phlap]

I have absolutely no problem with someone marrying someone else of the same sex. Simple as that.

 

[bat32391]

Honestly I don't understand why some people why it bothers some people so much, I say mind your own damn businesses and let two adults do what they want to with each other.

 

[Ladylotus]

Being a transgender lesbian, I have a pretty obvious idea about homosexuality.

That said, I want it to be gay marriage, not a civil union. Why? A. Separate but equal is a failed concept. It's offensive and it doesn't work. B. We tried asking for civil unions. Many Christians told us to screw off. C. Marriage is a legal, not religious, concept.

 

[NoX 9]

I'm about as straight as a Slinky [http://poof-slinky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/100-Slinky-Image.jpg], so naturally I am not against gay relationships or gay marriage at all. I wish the world in general was as accepting as people around here seem to be, but I don't get shit for my sexuality more than maybe once or twice a year. Sexuality is rarely brought up in my average conversation though, and I don't think I look very stereotypically lesbian or anything so I guess thats why. Or maybe people aren't as horrible as the news make them sound.

I'll be in one for the rest of my life when I find the right woman.

Where do you even look for 'the right woman'? I think I may have seen her on the bus once, but I froze with terror at the thought of aproaching her because I'm impossibly awkward. There must be an App for this!

I'm not a shipper....like ever...but somehow I happened to find myself being basically the biggest Korrasami supporter around.

I ran around my house cheering and waving my arms like a damn lunatic after the season finale. I sometimes pare off characters I like in my head because I'm the kind of person fanfiction was invented for, but this is the first time it actually happened! By season 3 they really started hinting at it and I found it increasingly likely, but I honestly didn't expect a Nickelodeon cartoon to actually do this.

Completely blew me away, and I'm super happy about it. KORRASAMIII!

 

[IronSkape]

I hope you were pleasantly surprised by the complete lack of bile and hate in this conversation. I haven't spent much time here on the Escapist forums, but I've found it to be, mostly, a very accepting place for people from all walks of life, gay people like myself included.

So, thank you, Escapist! Y'all is great.

That being said, this is the first forum I've payed attention to where this was the case, though I'm not exactly well-traveled in this regard. The powerlifting forum I (seldom) frequent is *much* less open.

I've been in a great relationship with my boyfriend for a little over two years now, and the only thing keeping me from popping the question is the Kentucky court system. Also, an engagement ring doesn't seem right, so I think I need an engagement... watch? Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

Well, considering I'm a guy that's only into guys (unless if maybe there's some BDSM and maybe alcohol involved, college has made me a little bicurious), gay relationships are pretty sweet. I just wish I could get into one my own for once. Doesn't help when everyone thinks your straight for some reason, especially when you're pretty vocal about what you're into. I think a lot of the people I'm around seem have this idea that gay guys are feminine and flamboyant, and if you're not then you're obviously straight. Can't imagine why so many gay guys want to be "straight acting" since it causes more problems than what it could possibly solve.

 

[laggyteabag]

What someone does behind closed doors is no business of mine.

If they're happy together, great!
If they want to get married, great!
If they want to have kids, great!

If they are happy to be with someone, then that is fine by me. What to people do with each other is no real business of anybody else.

 

[Shadow flame master]

Like most people on here I'm fine with gay people and their relationships. Love in all forms equally fills me with something of a mix of happiness and annoyance for some reason. But I'm weird like that.

Yes, gay people can and should marry, have kids, etc. I personally don't have anything against it, and while I'm sure most people in my area would be against it, I'm pretty sure they would be more in favor of fixing our education system here than dealing with "the gays."

 

[cathou]

i guess that as a married gay catholic, i must put some light on this.

it's doesnt matter if a civil marriage is between two men, two women or a man and a woman. it's not a gay marriage, it's just a marriage that doesnt involve God...

I'm probably being overly semantic here, but I don't think a marriage that isn't performed or blessed by a religious institution is missing a spiritual component. The spiritual aspect (or lack thereof) can be whatever the couple in question wishes it to be. I doubt that two gay Catholics would consider their marriage less blessed or, at worst, null and void because the Vatican thinks that they own the only correctly interpreted message of God, and thus refused the couple a church wedding.

i didnt meant that our marriage lack a spiritual componant, just that i wasnt bless by the Church officials. well now that i think about it, i think marriage is important to the people involve in it, not to God. i think God bless love, and doesnt really care if you are married or not...

No offence to any gay Catholics that may be reading this, but i find the concept to be rather silly.
As much as i dislike religious fundamentalists preaching their hate for the LGBT community, and as much as i do like seeing the church embrace a more progressive stance, i can't really vouch for the rationality behind these sorts of middle ground religious beliefs. The Bible is rather clear in this regard, and while various contradictions about this issue do exist (just as with virtually everything else in the bible) there really isn't enough ambiguity to interpret it any other way.
Unless people are going to follow the religion but just completely disregard everything written in scripture then i don't really see how gay Catholics can be anything more than people with a bad case of cognitive dissonance who refuse to commit one way or another.

As someone who doesn't practice any religion myself i do get the idea of not wanting to be restrained by religious rules, but i honestly find religious fundamentalists to be more philosophically grounded than people who believe that their actions will condemn them to hell yet do them anyway, or people who believe in the divine word of a scripture yet discard any aspects they dislike.

i think you can declare yourself of a religion without following blindly every aspect of it. if the only catholics are those who actually go to Church every sunday, there's not much catholic left around here...

otherwise, i'm culturally catholic. I was baptised, receive the first communion and confirmation. i've even went to Church a couple of time in my life, so i see myself as a catholic.and i was catholic before i realised i was gay. and while i do not blindly follow my religion, it still have importance to me, as a tradition and in my believes.

they dont think it's acceptable to be gay, alright, but unless the pope send me a letter to tell me i'm not catholic anymore, i'll still view myself as one.

and for the sciprture, i do not believe that the true meaning of the original words are still intact after thousands of years of manual copy and changes dictate by the politics of the early Church

there's a whole world of difference to adopt the philosophy of a religion, and to follow every rules that they might have come up with over the time for political reason.

by the way, our local Church didnt had any trouble to baptised our two children even if we were gay

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

i guess that as a married gay catholic, i must put some light on this.

Aw, shit! I didn't know that! I merely used the Catholic thing as an example for any religion that would do likewise, and only because it's a salient example that the most number of people would comprehend.

Looking back at my post, I see that I forgot to use the words "for example." Totally my bad.

i didnt meant that our marriage lack a spiritual componant, just that i wasnt bless by the Church officials. well now that i think about it, i think marriage is important to the people involve in it, not to God. i think God bless love, and doesnt really care if you are married or not...

I absolutely love the way you put that. Nicely said, my friend. Cheers!

 

[The Lunatic]

I find myself starting a lot of my posts with "As a homosexual".

So, this is another one.


I've always tried to understand the opposition to homosexuality. I suppose it comes from a sense of tradition, and I can't really fault that. I can't say there aren't things I don't feel unsure of changing. And I can see how, applying that to what one perceives as a relationship can lead to a person being against something.

However, I can't help but regard it as being a bit short sighted. I can't see in any way which homosexuals having the ability to marry and engage in relationships is going to negatively affect anyone.

So, I guess I understand why people would be against it, at least on some level. But, I think if one considered the happiness it would bring to others at the complete lack of cost to one's own, the ability to accept the idea seems rather simple.

I can't proclaim much understanding of religion, and that appears to be the main motivation for people to be against such things.



Something I can't help but consider, is there to be a fundamental difference between the relationship between a man and a woman, and that of a homosexual relationship.

Simply, men and women can create children. And whilst I don't think this should exclude homosexuals from any rights in marriage and such. I can't help but view this as a different aspect to a relationship, which homosexual relations cannot. I suppose to some extent, this makes me view my own relationships as being, perhaps more "Shallow" than those of a homosexual couple.

 

[GoodOmens]

I'm more than vaguely baffled that this is still a discussion. I don't mean here, I mean overall.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Indifferent.

My stance on morality in sex and relationships basically boils down to, "If it's between consenting adults then it's all good." Even if other people (be they gay, straight, whatever) are doing stuff I find gross or weird then it's still none of my damn business. They're not hurting anybody, leave 'em to it.

That's the big thing I don't understand about people who oppose other sexualities. How is it any of their business who other people are fucking?

From what I've seen from most anti-"not straight" propaganda, it's mostly about linking it to other things people don't like. You know, the slippery slope arguments. "If we let gay people get married, what about a man and his dog, or pedophiles and kids?"
Some even say homosexuality is the same as bestiality or pedophilia, or they say it's a mental illness (until 2009 it was considered a mental illness officially in the U.S., but not anymore).

Most arguments are saying that it's just evil and must be stopped (because icky! D, or they say that it's linked to other things that are terrible. Not so much about the sexuality itself, but what people say it will lead to or is equal to.

I find myself starting a lot of my posts with "As a homosexual".

So, this is another one.


I've always tried to understand the opposition to homosexuality. I suppose it comes from a sense of tradition, and I can't really fault that. I can't say there aren't things I don't feel unsure of changing. And I can see how, applying that to what one perceives as a relationship can lead to a person being against something.

However, I can't help but regard it as being a bit short sighted. I can't see in any way which homosexuals having the ability to marry and engage in relationships is going to negatively affect anyone.

So, I guess I understand why people would be against it, at least on some level. But, I think if one considered the happiness it would bring to others at the complete lack of cost to one's own, the ability to accept the idea seems rather simple.

I can't proclaim much understanding of religion, and that appears to be the main motivation for people to be against such things.



Something I can't help but consider, is there to be a fundamental difference between the relationship between a man and a woman, and that of a homosexual relationship.

Simply, men and women can create children. And whilst I don't think this should exclude homosexuals from any rights in marriage and such. I can't help but view this as a different aspect to a relationship, which homosexual relations cannot. I suppose to some extent, this makes me view my own relationships as being, perhaps more "Shallow" than those of a homosexual couple.

As I said above, it's not so much about what will actually come from gay people getting married so much as what people say could happen.
As for a negative effect, the only thing I can think of is it could change what taxes gay people pay if they get married, but I'm not sure if that would be positive or negative.

Also, it's not really so true that gay couples can't have kids. It's more of an ordeal for them than it is for straight couples, but it is possible and has been done.