GayGamer.net has a lot to answer for

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ThePlasmatizer

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Sep 2, 2008
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I am referring to this story: Mafia II Producer Apologizes For 'Gay Space Marines' Comment [http://kotaku.com/5645485/mafia-ii-producers-apologizes-for-gay-space-marines-comment]

The summary of it is that when asked in an interview of what the biggest problems video games are facing Denby Grace answered:
"It's a very good question and maybe a little general for a concise answer. An obsession with gay space marines."
This then lead to Wootini from GayGamer.net to write an article [http://gaygamer.net/2010/09/mafia_2_producer_enjoys_being.html#comments] about the interview and then take issue with it. The funny thing about Wootini's article is that he has no idea what Denby Grace meant by the comment yet still decides to take offense:
Yeah. So there's that. Unfortunately, since it's not a proper interview, there's no follow-up question to ask him exactly what he means by that. Does he actually think gamers are obsessed with homosexual space marines? Or is he using "gay" in the more popular pejorative usage? Is he trying to be funny? No matter what, it's just offensive.
I don't know Grace Denby maybe he is homophobic, maybe he isn't, but using a harmless comment
(which btw Wootini if you are still wondering what he meant, it was meant as a harmless joke about space marines and not an insult to the gay community) in a way used to further your own goals is pretty pathetic.

I think Grace Denby is the one who should be apologized to. When trying to beat prejudice and discrimination you don't act like you are some sort of cowboy looking for others to do something that you could perceive as offensive or even creating hostility towards others because of it.
 

Miumaru

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Arent you doing kinda the same thing as the guy you are complaining about?
 

Tanis

The Last Albino
Aug 30, 2010
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He's being politically correct, of course he as to perceive everything as offensive.
 

SnootyEnglishman

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May 26, 2009
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Everybody's too damn sensitive these days. We all need to take a chill pill and have relaxing day by the pool.
 

CobraX

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Jul 4, 2010
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Meh, GayGamer.net has the right to be upset, and to a degree it's understandable, but It's really not that big of deal. Besides that Grace guy is right! I'm tired of all these mother fracking space marines in my mother fracking games!!!
 

Finnboghi

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Oct 23, 2008
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This just irritates the hell out of me - language evolves, it always has, it always will.

Take, for example, 'Shrew'.

It used to be a somewhat derogatory term used to address a woman of lower status.

It's also a small, sometimes poisonous mammal.

The same word refers to two separate things, and now, referring to said mammal would in no way be deemed insulting.

'Gay' has done the same over the last decade; it refers to a homosexual, and is a blanket term to denote displeasure with a given event or entity.

If Mr. Denby had said "Dumb space marines", I doubt very much the mute community would be as up in arms about it as Wootini is.
 

ThePlasmatizer

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Miumaru said:
Arent you doing kinda the same thing as the guy you are complaining about?
No I am not. I read the comments of the interview and Wootini's response, if you'll read above Wootini doesn't know what Grace Denby means but he's determined to be offended by it and even opens with called Grace Denby an asshole.
 

Valksy

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Cynical skeptic said:
These days, "gay" has almost no connection with homosexuals.

Full circle the word has come!
Crap.

The way a small demographic uses a word does not make it common parlance. I'll take the word of someone like Merriam-Webster over the urban fucking dictionary.

People using "gay" as a synonym for bad, broken, unwanted, useless can go to hell. I hope the first pizza-faced little basement dwelling puke who coined it fucking rots. Mkay?

Right now I am going to go on associating that word usage with ignorant little children/high school tossers and thus, remove them from my personal radar.
 

Miumaru

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ThePlasmatizer said:
Miumaru said:
Arent you doing kinda the same thing as the guy you are complaining about?
No I am not. I read the comments of the interview and Wootini's response, if you'll read above Wootini doesn't know what Grace Denby means but he's determined to be offended by it and even opens with called Grace Denby an asshole.
He does not know, but he knows either way it is offensive. Either he was saying homosexual space marines are bad, or he was using gay to mean stupid which is just something idiots do. Saying gay to mean stupid is not ok. Just because "everyone does it" is never an excuse.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Nov 9, 2008
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SnootyEnglishman said:
Everybody's too damn sensitive these days. We all need to take a chill pill and have relaxing day by the pool.
Yeah, who gives a fuck if person A thinks concept B is description C?
 

Bon_Clay

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Aug 5, 2010
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Sorry gay community, but the words gay and ******/fag(in North America mostly I'm talking about) are too useful to give up. Their meanings in popular usage are becoming more and more separated from any type of sexual preference.

You didn't get the deal black people did where they got ownership of a word that previously was an insult we used for them. And look at how that turned out, not very well. Saying ****** every 3 seconds in rap music has just continued to alienate the subculture that uses it and make old white conservatives afraid of them.

Besides, do you really want to be giving a word that much power? Its only as offensive as you want it to be. If you spend less time being offended over stuff other people say and just act like you are above petty insults, people will realize they have no punch anymore.
 

Korolev

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Jul 4, 2008
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He is unhappy with the use of the word gay to mean "bad". Problem is, just about every single person does it. My brother doesn't have anything against gay people, but he uses the term. I myself have used the term to mean "bad". What can I say, I grew up in Australia, and that's the language that was used on the school grounds. I picked it up as a slang word, just as everyone did.

I have made an effort to not use that word in that sense, but damn it, I can't be bothered filtering and monitoring what I say every single second of every single day. For what it's worth, INTENTIONS matter. If someone doesn't mean to offend, and in this case, I think it's pretty clear that Grace did not mean to offend, then let it go. There's enough REAL hatred out there you know.

I am half Chinese. I don't really look it though (my brother does, however) and when I'm around white people I have heard racist speech, not directed at me, but against other chinese people, and believe me, it sets my teeth on edge. Recently, I heard someone complain about "cheap chinese goods" and knockoffs. Did I get offended? Did I raise a stink over the issue? No, due to the fact that china does produce many cheap goods (for which I am grateful) and unfortunately many knockoffs do come from China. The man wasn't intending to insult Chinese people, but had an issue with economic practices, which is fair enough. So I let it go. Because intent MATTERS. Speech without intent is meaningless, it's just sound.

In the case of Denby Grace, I seriously doubt that a conscious jab at gay people was the intent. Therefore, it was not insult. Insult REQUIRES INTENT. You cannot unintentionally insult someone - that's just being tactless or unsophisticated. People can be offended by unintentional remarks, but that is not the same thing as being insulted directly.

I don't like using the word "gay" as a pejorative, and I have (largely) stopped. But I know many people who do use it. They aren't gay-bashers, they aren't conservative voting, angry bigots who fear those different from them - in fact, they're largely progressive people who back Same Sex Marriage. It's just that in the culture they grew up in, that was how people talked.

To make such a fuss over this, HURTS those who do support gay rights. Instead of focusing on important issues, they focus on small matters and wording. They are literally arguing over semantics and syntax, when gays are being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia, and when gay military personnel have to lead double lives.

Look, gay people, you need straight people to join your cause. By doing this, you are just trying people's patience. Intent matters, context matters, and raising a fuss over a slip of the tongue, or some slang, raising a fuss over ONE SYLLABLE, a sound in the air, not designed to cause offense, is just silly.

For the record, using the N-word isn't the same thing. That isn't slang in most parts of the world, it is a deliberate insult. When people say the N-word, they say so INTENTIONALLY to refer to black people. No one says "man,that's so N-word". No, every time the N-word is used, it is directed SPECIFICALLY at people.

But even then, I make allowances for the elderly, so long as it was a slip up. For example, I used to know a man who referred to Indigenous Australians as "abbos", which is quite offensive to them. I pointed this out to him, calmly, when he did it, and he always apologized. Apart from the use of that word, he was fine - he backed the Government apology to the Aboriginal community, he was in favour of giving them more land-rights, but the dude was 58 years old and that's the language he grew up in. It worms your way into your mind and sits there.

So gay people - please understand that INTENT MATTERS. I know you don't like hearing that word used in a negative light and I understand that. But anger doesn't help. Anger is appropriate if someone is GENUINELY insulting gay people, but if they aren't, it doesn't help, and just causes more problems. Logically, if you hear someone use the word gay in a pejorative manner, then gently, but firmly, correct them. You could say "please don't use that word in that way", or "please don't use that term" or "please pay more attention to your language", you know, things like that. That would be more helpful then misdirected anger, which is not constructive.
 

Cynical skeptic

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Valksy said:
Crap.

The way a small demographic uses a word does not make it common parlance. I'll take the word of someone like Merriam-Webster over the urban fucking dictionary.

People using "gay" as a synonym for bad, broken, unwanted, useless can go to hell. I hope the first pizza-faced little basement fucking rot. Mkay?
That a pretty gay attitude you have towards progressive thinking.

Especially considering you're pitting one "small" demographic versus another "small" demographic.
 

Valksy

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Cynical skeptic said:
Valksy said:
Crap.

The way a small demographic uses a word does not make it common parlance. I'll take the word of someone like Merriam-Webster over the urban fucking dictionary.

People using "gay" as a synonym for bad, broken, unwanted, useless can go to hell. I hope the first pizza-faced little basement fucking rot. Mkay?
That a pretty gay attitude you have towards progressive thinking.

Especially considering you're pitting one "small" demographic versus another "small" demographic.
No dear. The demographic is the rest of the english speaking world, pretty much everyone versus what I associate and have usually experienced as a word usage coming from school/young college aged people. (whose opinion and input on the world is, thankfully, minimal).

How about this - put away the word "gay" and use the words "p***" or "n*****" in the same sentence as the same sort of synonym. Get it?