GDC 2010: Sid Meier's: My Five Bads

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Team Hollywood

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Feb 9, 2009
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Sid Meier's: My Five Bads

In an excerpt from his GDC Keynote Sid Meier five things he's done wrong. Sorry, but the audio is a little off because of technical glitches at GDC.

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Eudaemonian

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Jan 22, 2008
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I was really hoping that the removal of firepower (the Civ 2 hidden stat) from future versions which allowed men with sticks to reliably defeat a tank would show up in there.

I think that's a little worse than a few mistakes from Civ 1 that no one saw or remembered. Though the randomized tech advances were frustrating, to be sure...
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Not all those were bad ideas. The randomness and Gold giving were great ideas I thought.

The randomness would help break up the monotony of the games and keep you on your toes.

And for the gold thing, people would give gold to others. They would probably just have to ask.
 

Angerwing

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Jun 1, 2009
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Eudaemonian said:
I was really hoping that the removal of firepower (the Civ 2 hidden stat) from future versions which allowed men with sticks to reliably defeat a tank would show up in there.

I think that's a little worse than a few mistakes from Civ 1 that no one saw or remembered. Though the randomized tech advances were frustrating, to be sure...
"What do you mean a maceman took down my helicopter?!"
 

addeB

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Oct 2, 2009
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Huh, i never heard about any dino game and i'm a pretty big fan of Sid Meier's. : /
Guess that i haven't done my homework's :p
 

Jared

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Jul 14, 2009
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addeB said:
Huh, i never heard about any dino game and i'm a pretty big fan of Sid Meier's. : /
Guess that i haven't done my homework's :p
If so your not only one, lol.

At least he is pretty upfront about it all. Its nice to see him seeing whats wrong, and means he can improve upon it!
 

zeroReactivity

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Nov 28, 2009
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Irridium said:
Not all those were bad ideas. The randomness and Gold giving were great ideas I thought.

The randomness would help break up the monotony of the games and keep you on your toes.

And for the gold thing, people would give gold to others. They would probably just have to ask.
Yeah, I was surprised about the gold giving. It's a pretty important part of diplomacy in the single-player game, so it seems odd that it wouldn't work in multi-player. One would hope that at least the diplomatic trading options of the previous games would be available in newer versions.
 

Tiamat666

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Dec 4, 2007
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Rise and Fall... there's a very popular mod for Civ III and IV called "Rhye's and Fall of Civilization" which is mostly about more historic accuracy and civilizations rising and falling. In fact, it's so popular (and well made) that it was included in Civ IV and I'm not sure, but I think they hired Rhye, the developer, to help with Civ IV.

So I'm a little surprised about that bad.

Actually, I don't agree much with Sid at all (which borders on heresy, I know). There are real time games, like the whole Settlers franchise, that do very well and part of the appeal is being the observer, watching your people work and do stuff. It simply depends on what you want your game to be, but that doesn't mean that it's generally a mistake. I can imagine a real-time Civ that could be quite fun. After all, Age of Empires and Rise of Nations where like a mix of Civ and C&C and very fun to play.

And random events, which were reintroduced in Civ IV with the Beyond the Sword expansion, can add alot of flavor to the game. Sure, the hardcore strategists may be put off, but I think most players will find the extra challenges and variety engaging.

Perhaps Sid is spending too much time on civilization forums, listening to the hardcore players. The problem is that those strongly voicing their opinions will most likely be hardcore players whereas the happy masses of civ-fans wont feel strong enough about things to go and complain about it.

@Team Holliwood: thanks for the vid, but I found the enbedded cutscenes of civ-games rather distracting, especially when text appears. Half of my brain tries to read the text and enjoy the visuals while the other half is trying to listen to Sid talk.
 

MNRA

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Jun 8, 2009
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I'm sad about him not including the rise and fall mechanic. It's one of my favourite types of plotline. Clawing your way back up from nigh-extinction.
 

Namewithheld

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Apr 30, 2008
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Do you know what your biggest mistake was, Sid?

Alpha Centauri 2. And the fact that it has not happened yet.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I WANT MORE CHARON!
 

Pills_Here

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Dec 10, 2009
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That's my dawg Sid, yo. The master of strategy. A fairly interesting talk as well.

On a more related note, I would totally purchase another Alpha Centauri game if it came out. Definitely one of my favorite strategy games of all time.
 

H0ncho

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Feb 4, 2008
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Why was there music playing while he was having a presentation? Isn't that a bit disrespectful, to play music while someone talks?
 

Quesa

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Jul 8, 2009
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Gah, he skipped the Covert Action point; I've always loved Covert Action and I hate that it's always considered a major miss.
 

SimuLord

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Aug 20, 2008
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Namewithheld said:
Do you know what your biggest mistake was, Sid?

Alpha Centauri 2. And the fact that it has not happened yet.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I WANT MORE CHARON!
Then convince EA to release the license to it. Firaxis doesn't own the Alpha Centauri name anymore.

And while you're at it, convince Brian Reynolds to give up the company he founded (Big Huge Games, makers of Rise of Nations, Rise of Legends, and the Asian Dynasties add-on for Age of Empires 3) and come back to Firaxis since Reynolds, not Meier, was the creative mind behind the #2 greatest game of all time (behind Rome: Total War.)
 

Sjakie

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Feb 17, 2010
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Giving gold to other players sounds more like normal gameplay mechanic to me...but somehow the word "goldseller" creeped it's way into my mind. imagine that in a Civ game...

*shudders*
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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kind of neat to see some of the scrapped ideas!

Query; was it really necessary to put music in the background?
 

bachterman

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Mar 12, 2009
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what about the pirates remake's dance part? it was a mistake, which completely ruined the nostalgia for me.
 

Namewithheld

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SimuLord said:
Namewithheld said:
Do you know what your biggest mistake was, Sid?

Alpha Centauri 2. And the fact that it has not happened yet.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I WANT MORE CHARON!
Then convince EA to release the license to it. Firaxis doesn't own the Alpha Centauri name anymore.

And while you're at it, convince Brian Reynolds to give up the company he founded (Big Huge Games, makers of Rise of Nations, Rise of Legends, and the Asian Dynasties add-on for Age of Empires 3) and come back to Firaxis since Reynolds, not Meier, was the creative mind behind the #2 greatest game of all time (behind Rome: Total War.)
I'll get the rope, you get the car battery and the jumper cables.
 

maximara

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Tiamat666 said:
Perhaps Sid is spending too much time on civilization forums, listening to the hardcore players. The problem is that those strongly voicing their opinions will most likely be hardcore players whereas the happy masses of civ-fans wont feel strong enough about things to go and complain about it.
True and strangely the one thing that eventually turned me off of the Civilization series was not there--it takes so long early on to build up your civilization to where you can do anything.

Another thing that annoyed the blazes out of me was how wonders became obsolete due to some invention of a civilization that you had not even come into contact with.