Geek Remix: Life is Strange & Morality of Time

[WindKnight]

You have the CHOICE to be supportive to Kate. You don't have to be. You can choose to victim blame her and not think she has a solid case.

Is it okay to spy on people as long as you are nice about it? It's okay to violate people's privacy and intimate moments so long as you are submissive and shy towards others?

I'm just saying why there are valid reasons people react much more negatively to David than to Max. I'm not dismissing your points, I find them interesting, and valid. And yeah, Part of my bias is I played Max as Genuinely Nice, not Surface Level Nice or outright Jerk, and sometimes its easy to see the max you played as the only one.

 

[happyninja42]

You have the CHOICE to be supportive to Kate. You don't have to be. You can choose to victim blame her and not think she has a solid case.

Is it okay to spy on people as long as you are nice about it? It's okay to violate people's privacy and intimate moments so long as you are submissive and shy towards others?

I'm just saying why there are valid reasons people react much more negatively to David than to Max. I'm not dismissing your points, I find them interesting, and valid. And yeah, Part of my bias is I played Max as Genuinely Nice, not Surface Level Nice or outright Jerk, and sometimes its easy to see the max you played as the only one.

Well, in any given playthrough, that IS the only Max that exists, whichever Max you pick I mean. That was one thing that really annoyed me about a lot of responses to David in the Let's Plays I saw, was how people would hate on him, based on things he didn't do. For example

Spoiler

When David hits Chloe. Even when people would rewind time, and alter events so that he doesn't hit her, they still acted with a level of toxic venom as if he had. Which I felt was wrong, because he didn't hit her. He didn't get to the specific state of emotional instability where he lost control and struck out. He just got regular old angry at finding a stepchild smoking pot, and yelled. But people would still vilify him for something he didn't do. They did that with a lot of characters, which is kind of scary to me, and suggest some sort of thought police kind of subculture in out community. It's not just what you do that we will crucify you for, it's what you might even consider doing.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

You have the CHOICE to be supportive to Kate. You don't have to be. You can choose to victim blame her and not think she has a solid case.

Is it okay to spy on people as long as you are nice about it? It's okay to violate people's privacy and intimate moments so long as you are submissive and shy towards others?

I'm just saying why there are valid reasons people react much more negatively to David than to Max. I'm not dismissing your points, I find them interesting, and valid. And yeah, Part of my bias is I played Max as Genuinely Nice, not Surface Level Nice or outright Jerk, and sometimes its easy to see the max you played as the only one.

Well, in any given playthrough, that IS the only Max that exists, whichever Max you pick I mean. That was one thing that really annoyed me about a lot of responses to David in the Let's Plays I saw, was how people would hate on him, based on things he didn't do. For example

Spoiler

When David hits Chloe. Even when people would rewind time, and alter events so that he doesn't hit her, they still acted with a level of toxic venom as if he had. Which I felt was wrong, because he didn't hit her. He didn't get to the specific state of emotional instability where he lost control and struck out. He just got regular old angry at finding a stepchild smoking pot, and yelled. But people would still vilify him for something he didn't do. They did that with a lot of characters, which is kind of scary to me, and suggest some sort of thought police kind of subculture in out community. It's not just what you do that we will crucify you for, it's what you might even consider doing.

Couldn't you apply that to Mark as well? What if you were able to rewind to before

Spoiler

Mark started kidnapping people and throw him in jail so those events never happened.

Would that be unjustified?

I think if you're going to have a universe where this kind of time travel is possible, you also have to have a new morality. Possibly one where events don't simply either do or don't happen. But if you do that you almost have to remove blame altogether because you see that everything someone does is a function of everything that happens to them. Free will goes out the window completely. Everything just happens.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

It's my personal opinion that the time travel powers were a metaphor for surveillance. There is a lot of surveillance themes in Life is Strange. Why is it okay for Max to read people's diaries, go through people's rooms, and spy on others while it's not okay for David to do the same things? Because Max didn't get caught? Because Max has "good intentions"?

David had good intentions too. Why is he creepy but Max is not?

Spoiler: Well, I think it may be a combo of the full context of the situations, and the results that change how people feel about Max vs. David when it comes to invading people's privacy. (for space)

Without context of the situation, or knowing how they'll turn out I'd have to say that both just look like bad things to do. For example, say David putting up cameras around without people knowing about them lead to the villains being caught. People would still say it was wrong to do it (because it still is), but it got good results so people feel it's "worth it".

That's the difference between Max and David on this. Max succeeds in making people happy, saving their lives, and eventually stopping the bad people. What she does to do it I agree is a bad thing to do, but because it works out with positive results people don't let it slide more than with David.

An ends justifies the means argument I guess. Don't like it too much but I don't mean to say that it makes what Max does good. If that makes sense.
I don't think manipulation of people (through time manipulation or otherwise) is something that can be called absolutely uncalled for. Similar to murder or theft. They're still bad things to do, but sometimes the ends do justify the means.

The trickiest part with time travel though is that we can't realistically know all the results. I don't just mean the whole "breaking the world by using time travel" trope either, but something like keeping someone from dying can change a lot.
It could be good or bad, but because the time to the future is pretty much infinite (as far as we know) we really can't judge all the effects of changing something.

Should Max never use her powers again, even to save someones life? Theoretically any action changed could lead to starting world war 3. But then isn't that also just a ends justifies the means argument to not "use your power for good"?
Even less convincing than the other argument since we also can't be sure that only good things could come from a change.

Honestly, to use deciding when to use time based on if it has "positive" results would probably require a much greater power.
Omniscience. Plus, if you did have literary ALL knowledge you'd probably not need to use time travel that much. ;p

Sorry for the long post, but I really enjoyed your video and wanted to join to conversation.Recently subbed to The geekremix channel after seeing your videos here. Fun time so far.

Lots to talk about with this too and I'm grateful you pointed out something I didn't think of while playing the game. It's obvious that such power could be greatly abused, but I didn't really think too much about if what Max was doing with it was wrong too. Sometimes.

Best of luck with School! I have to go back too soon for the next semester,

Learning sure is fun!

-_- But school SUUUUUUUCKS!

=w=b

 

[geekremix_Mari]

It's my personal opinion that the time travel powers were a metaphor for surveillance. There is a lot of surveillance themes in Life is Strange. Why is it okay for Max to read people's diaries, go through people's rooms, and spy on others while it's not okay for David to do the same things? Because Max didn't get caught? Because Max has "good intentions"?

David had good intentions too. Why is he creepy but Max is not?

Spoiler: Well, I think it may be a combo of the full context of the situations, and the results that change how people feel about Max vs. David when it comes to invading people's privacy. (for space)

Without context of the situation, or knowing how they'll turn out I'd have to say that both just look like bad things to do. For example, say David putting up cameras around without people knowing about them lead to the villains being caught. People would still say it was wrong to do it (because it still is), but it got good results so people feel it's "worth it".

That's the difference between Max and David on this. Max succeeds in making people happy, saving their lives, and eventually stopping the bad people. What she does to do it I agree is a bad thing to do, but because it works out with positive results people don't let it slide more than with David.

An ends justifies the means argument I guess. Don't like it too much but I don't mean to say that it makes what Max does good. If that makes sense.
I don't think manipulation of people (through time manipulation or otherwise) is something that can be called absolutely uncalled for. Similar to murder or theft. They're still bad things to do, but sometimes the ends do justify the means.

The trickiest part with time travel though is that we can't realistically know all the results. I don't just mean the whole "breaking the world by using time travel" trope either, but something like keeping someone from dying can change a lot.
It could be good or bad, but because the time to the future is pretty much infinite (as far as we know) we really can't judge all the effects of changing something.

Should Max never use her powers again, even to save someones life? Theoretically any action changed could lead to starting world war 3. But then isn't that also just a ends justifies the means argument to not "use your power for good"?
Even less convincing than the other argument since we also can't be sure that only good things could come from a change.

Honestly, to use deciding when to use time based on if it has "positive" results would probably require a much greater power.
Omniscience. Plus, if you did have literary ALL knowledge you'd probably not need to use time travel that much. ;p

Sorry for the long post, but I really enjoyed your video and wanted to join to conversation.Recently subbed to The geekremix channel after seeing your videos here. Fun time so far.

Lots to talk about with this too and I'm grateful you pointed out something I didn't think of while playing the game. It's obvious that such power could be greatly abused, but I didn't really think too much about if what Max was doing with it was wrong too. Sometimes.

Best of luck with School! I have to go back too soon for the next semester,

Learning sure is fun!

-_- But school SUUUUUUUCKS!

=w=b

Haha thanks! Yeah and school really does suck.

 

[geekremix_Mari]

"Awesome video Mari!

This is exactly the message we wanted to convey: Putting the player at first in a fun and casual situation where he thinks it is perfectly normal to use this power the way he uses it, and then slowly have this downward spiral, ultimately going to this "no-win" situation Tylor mentioned.
When the player, and Max, gets there, the final choice she has to make should be a revelation and an acceptance about the fact that you cannot have a perfect like and that you have to accept it, and go forward with it, not backward.
And we showed, in the nightmare, that deep inside, Max realized this. It is shown when she is talking to herself - a representation of her conscience - and she is knowing that she is not as good as a person as she thought she was. This realization is also what made her ultimately grow up, what made her switch from a teenager to an adult."

-Michel Koch, Art Director of Life is Strange.