Gender Differences in Games

[thewightknight]

Am I the only one who gets kind of annoyed when this comes up at any time ever?
Preemptively, I don't think we can really say that the issue doesn't exist, and that any mention of it is stirring up non-existent controversy. There are some who are severely bothered by this, or at least bugged, and I think it often represents one of the ways we still fail to make games as good as they could be. Any attempt to create differences in gender in a game, after all, is going to be colored by our perceptions, which are often very much off.
One can say they are just portraying the average, but that is ignoring (to use one of the common differences presented) the numerous women who are quite strong and good fighters, or the numerous men who would deserve a bonus in magic usage. It also seems to speak of ignorance to the effect culture has on such a thing - it isn't all testosterone and estrogen differences.
Barring some sort of setting that purposefully implements differences to make a point - say... women get a magic bonus because the gods happen to be lecherous creeps, or what have you, and this is used to prove some deep point - it seems to me that it just shouldn't be done. If you want differences, just make different characters or classes (and then the controversy becomes the fact that they are all stereotypes, yay!)
That was kind of wandering and not entirely focused, but my main point is this: do we really need to show differences at all, or can't we all just get along (man)?

 

[LordRoyal]

Most of the time in RPGs gender differences are purely cosmetic. In Baldur's Gate for instance I dont believe it even changed dialogue.

Actually Bioware games are pretty good at portraying gender equality really.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Shouldn't we be adressing the issue of oversaturation of the market?
Or Nintendo (supposedly) pushing to release its new console within the next year?
Or the ridiculous number of MMO's coming out which are likely gonna flop and cause their creators to lose tons of money?
Or the fact that pretty much all characters just suck overall, or that half of half assed 4 hour campaigns are the norm now?

I liked it a whole lot more when people argued about stuff like this instead of an issue which is only there in the complainer's eyes.
So if your gonna whine, whine about an actual problem.

 

[Katana314]

Am I the only one who gets kind of annoyed when this comes up at any time ever?

And you make a thread about it? =p

Anyway, part of diversity for a lot of people has been about celebrating differences. Women and men are different in a lot more ways than just their body parts; that's an undeniable fact. Some developers can be smart about showing this as long as it's not some strong-impact thing.

That said, you're right that there aren't many easy ways you could depict them without attracting controversy. Besides which, games can be fine for fantasizing realms you wouldn't be able to explore in real life. Maybe you're a weak-muscled girl who always wanted to beat people up; play as a female fighter in a video game, and you get your wish.

 

[thewightknight]

I liked it a whole lot more when people argued about stuff like this instead of an issue which is only there in the complainer's eyes.
So if your gonna whine, whine about an actual problem.

If you are interested in those things, shouldn't you be the one to start a thread about them? (Also, I think "I liked it a whole lot more when people argued about stuff like this instead of an issue which is only there in the complainer's eyes" can be said about anything, because maybe I don't particularly care about the way various companies cause their demise or make bad characters or this or that or the other.)
I liked it a whole lot when the internet wasn't just people "whining" about people "whining". Oh wait.

Aaanyway, yes, LordRoyal, there are a lot of games that handle this by ignoring it, and that is just fine. And for games that have it affect plot but not performance, that is awesome too. I would hate for Dragon Age, for example, to not have had the two city elf origin stories it did. My only issue is when it becomes restrictive or particularly stereotypical, which has stopped to a fair degree.

 

[Zantos]

Shouldn't we be adressing the issue of oversaturation of the market?
Or Nintendo (supposedly) pushing to release its new console within the next year?
Or the ridiculous number of MMO's coming out which are likely gonna flop and cause their creators to lose tons of money?
Or the fact that pretty much all characters just suck overall, or that half of half assed 4 hour campaigns are the norm now?

I liked it a whole lot more when people argued about stuff like this instead of an issue which is only there in the complainer's eyes.
So if your gonna whine, whine about an actual problem.

In fairness, it's nice to take a break and go nuts with something that doesn't really matter. There are enough "Call of Duty and Halo ruined everything" and "My console is far superior to your console and this is why it's a scientific fact" without adding more hatred, lies and general annoyance.

OT: Not just a problem with gender. The games industry seems to have stuck with a couple of unrealistic stereotypes and stuck with them. Bioware at least tried to progress, but in honesty the absolutely no difference approach that they go for is hardly what you'd call a step forward.

We applaud them though on their brilliant choice, I can't think of a single game I own that would have been improved by the use of real, average people.

 

[thewightknight]

We applaud them though on their brilliant choice, I can't think of a single game I own that would have been improved by the use of real, average people.

I don't know if it makes a particular difference in a lot of situations - the game is still the game and often ends up being good or bad on other merits - but I for one tend to support subtexts, subplots, and other things that are out of the way, but still move to generate more interest or, when skillfully used, tie into the story as a whole. Imagine, say, it turns out that the big bad is who he is in part because of some stereotype in the game world that exists against what he has chosen to be because of gender (or this or that or whatever), and the player can learn about this. It doesn't change the fact that he is a villain, it doesn't change the final battle, and it might not even effect dialouge, but it is still an interesting thing to learn and then think about. And in terms of education in games and a more mature level to them, it means that those who do find interest in this have an opening into that sort of thinking.

Also, not all of Bioware's method is just the "no difference" act. As said, the use of gender as part of a plot device seems fine to me.

 

[Vault101]

Or the fact that pretty much all characters just suck overall,.

thats a pretty big sweeping statment..which I disagree

as for the 4 hour campgn thing? yeah THATS definetly a serious issue