Gender Equality and Dating

[Riku'sTwilight]

I had a discussion with a few friends of mine about how, although gender equality has been virtually stabilised in the workplace and the western world (with one or two mishaps here and there, i.e. sports) how come then has it not trickled into the dating scene?

Two prime examples kept popping up; one being how it is usually the man's role to ask the woman out on a date and make most of the moves required to progress and two how it is usually the man's role to pay for said dates.

What do you, the members of the Escapist think about these topics? and how would you change them if you could?

I've only had a male perspective on this so female viewpoints are highly recommended.

*Also a quick side-note to ask for some help: There's a really cute girl who works at the grocery store across from my house and I want to ask her out on a date, although she lives in my town I only ever see her at the store she works in, I never see her on a night out or generally around town. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[DefunctTheory]

The non-pc answer is: Women want equality THEIR way. So, dating is still, largely, about courting the female. Part of that is asking her out.

That being said, it's not always true.

It doesn't bother me, really. I know which is the superior sex.

...Females...

[sub]My mother taught me.[/sub]

Really, why does it bother you? Happy females are females that are nice to be around.

Being romantic and paying for stuff makes females happy.

Thus, is there really anything wrong with it?

As for your problem... man up and ask her.

 

[Vampire cat]

Unforunately the western world isn't as equal as we like to believe but, never mind that discussion. I don't know about the female-male dating scene seeing as I date women, but from what I can see females are just as active in "making the move" as males are. What you need to remember is that females are just as unsure about the asking part as you, so if you feel nervous or unsure about asking someone out, you know just how they feel in the same situation.

I know why my friends usually don't want to make the first move though: It's often seen as slutty for a girl to go after men, but for whatever reason it's perfectly cool when males to that same thing to women. So I can see why a lot of girls still don't, cause I sure wouldn't want that hanging over my head.

And just asking her is the only way to do it I'm afraid, so start building up that courage. And remember: The worst thing that can happen is that a masked man storms in at and shoots you with a shotgun *ahem* I mean that she says no.

 

[Dags90]

Date your own gender, problem solved. Also, you're dealing with expectations which are a tricky thing. I know a lot of women who won't turn down a free meal but wouldn't be put off by having to go Dutch. There are also several of these expectations of women. Who is still usually expected to raise children? Who is still expected to cook and clean? Sure these aren't 100%, but neither are yours. There are still plenty of women out there who either work a full job, then come home to cook and clean, or give up their careers to raise a child.

My $.016. (Points for the feminist reference)

 

[ShadowLord180]

And just asking her is the only way to do it I'm afraid, so start building up that courage. And remember: The worst thing that can happen is that a masked man storms in at and shoots you with a shotgun *ahem* I mean that she says no.

Don't you just hate those pesky shotgun wielding assassins?

Also, as far as dating goes, you could say I tend to be a bit old fashioned because I think it really is up to the guy to do most of the work. That being said, the only girlfriend I've had asked me out and I just went with it. It ended badly after about a month though, so at this point I'm just sticking to (attempting) to asking out women that I actually like... but given that I have the self-confidence of a suicidal bowl of jello it hasn't been going too well.

As for the girl, I'd say just ask her out. And if you're anything like me, you just need to remember to hide the fact that you're terrified of doing something stupid and pretend to be confident!
Important note though, confidence is good; Arrogance is definitely NOT good. Know the difference.

 

[gazumped]

On the money note, Saturday Morning Breakfast's last comic pretty much says it all. http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110330.gif

I'm a poor student and my boyfriend has a job but I still insist on paying my share on dates. I'd actually prefer that my friends buy me stuff because it doesn't suggest that I'm making my the person pay to get certain privileges from me.

I think girls hide behind the 'the guy should ask me out' thing, I get the feeling a lot of them hide behind it so they don't have to bother mustering the courage to make the first move. But sweet Lord it's frustrating when a female friend's going on about how she doesn't know if a guy likes her and when I ask why she doesn't just ask him the hell out and be done with it she'll just throw in that excuse.

 

[Duffeknol]

I had a discussion with a few friends of mine about how, although gender equality has been virtually stabilised in the workplace and the western world

Ha ha. No.

Read: http://httpwww.whale.to/c/have_dutch_women.html

 

[Palademon]

Once a girl liked me. One of the only girls to ever.

She moved on because I didn't ask her out.

She told me this after she had gotten a boyfriend.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
EDIT: So yeah, I hate stereotypes and gender roles.

 

[Kimozabi]

It could just be that you are more interested in them, than they are in you. But I agree, a woman missing a date because she's waiting for the man to approach is stupid.

Btw, did you hear about certain countries (I believe England is amongst them) now require big companies to have at least 20% females in top positions. Talk about missing gender equality. "So, this guy is more qualified for the job and would be perfect for the role? Too bad, because this woman is female, so she gets the job, since we don't think you have enough." Pathetic.

 

[Mr. Eff_v1legacy]

Some expectations about gender roles definitely still exist, but when it comes down to it, it's an issue between you and your partner rather than your respective sexes.
When I take my girlfriend out, I pay because I want to treat her. Sure there's some semblance of obligation and expectation, but when it comes down to it, I want to do something nice for her. Likewise, she pays for things and buys things for me. It's not always one way, nor should it be.

 

[Gunner_Guardian]

Just a small tidbit I might add to the discussion.

I've went on a date with an older women before and she insisted on paying for the date. I wonder if this is par for the course for this case elsewhere.

 

[WingedIncubus]

You invite, you pay. However, you can open a bridge by saying "hey, I pay this time... but next time the tab's yours", that usually works to defuse the situation very well.

Also, what I do is that when the bill arrives, I wait a little bit to see how she's acting and reacting. If she acts all like "why aren't you paying", it's a good sign that she is a serial dater and enjoys the free meal.

That's why I don't do dinner dates, but coffee dates. Usually women don't make a fuss about paying their own coffee, it's usually more informal and less stressful to make conversation, it's cheaper for sex afterwards, and I don't feel like I've been buying her attention.

 

[Wolfram23]

If you ask someone out on a date, you pay. If they ask you, they should pay - although in either case it would be gentlemanly/polite to offer to split it at the least.

Anyway for your issue, just try to think of some quick topics/questions you might ask her next time you see her. If it goes ok you can finish by asking for her name/number and/or email. I met my first girlfriend at a grocery store (we both worked at). I talked with her on a few different shifts and then asked her email, later we talked a bunch on MSN and I brought up movies and casually mentioned we should go see one together. That's how I took her out on our first date.

 

[Nemitri]

I'm a neutralist, so, not the man or the woman should pay, but both, unless its a birthday gift or something to that extent

 

[WingedIncubus]

*Also a quick side-note to ask for some help: There's a really cute girl who works at the grocery store across from my house and I want to ask her out on a date, although she lives in my town I only ever see her at the store she works in, I never see her on a night out or generally around town. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

Just chat up for a few minutes, then ask her to go for a coffee after her work shift. How complicated can it be? If she says she can't, propose another time (date, hour, location) and ask for her number. If she continues to resist or it drags on and on, then just say it's cool, nice meeting ya, and pass to the next girl. Don't invest on women who aren't interested.

If she says she has a boyfriend, just say "respect" or "I'm not asking for your hand, you know" and proceeds, as if she hadn't one, to see if she really means it or it's just her default defence mechanism. If she insists, there's your answer.

 

[Jonluw]

When it comes to procedures surrounding reproduction, I think gender equality can be disregarded.

As for the "it's the norm for men to ask girls out". At least that's not the case in anime and manga. I wish more girls would ask guys out, because it's really moecute.
[sub]what am I becoming...[/sub]

 

[FrostyChick]

When it comes to procedures surrounding reproduction, I think gender equality can be disregarded.

As for the "it's the norm for men to ask girls out". At least that's not the case in anime and manga. I wish more girls would ask guys out, because it's really moecute.
[sub]what am I becoming...[/sub]

One of us... One of us... o.o

OT: I don't really care for that silly "rule" if I like a guy or a girl, I'll ask.
The reason I'm single is because I've never met a guy or girl I like that way. (atleast IRL)

 

[T8B95]

And just asking her is the only way to do it I'm afraid, so start building up that courage. And remember: The worst thing that can happen is that a masked man storms in at and shoots you with a shotgun *ahem* I mean that she says no.

Don't you just hate those pesky shotgun wielding assassins?

In my world, they're known as "father of the girl you're trying to date". When they're trying to burn down the house, that would be an ex. True story.

As for equality, I've been asked out by plenty of women.

As for your problem, yeah, I agree with the guys above me. Go for it. Just remember...if she tries to burn down your house after you break up, I warned you!

 

[Jonluw]

When it comes to procedures surrounding reproduction, I think gender equality can be disregarded.

As for the "it's the norm for men to ask girls out". At least that's not the case in anime and manga. I wish more girls would ask guys out, because it's really moecute.
[sub]what am I becoming...[/sub]

One of us... One of us... o.o

OT: I don't really care for that silly "rule" if I like a guy or a girl, I'll ask.
The reason I'm single is because I've never met a guy or girl I like that way. (atleast IRL)

I think that "rule" originated because men are typically more interested in sexual activity than women, and any given person is more likely to say yes to go on a date with someone they're only slightly interested in if asked than they are to actually ask that person out.

Guy is slightly interested in girl, girl is slightly interested in guy. Guy realizes that the chances of him getting laid are far greater if he asks the girl out than the chances that the girl'll ask him out, so he - as the person with the stronger sex drive - makes the first move.

Or maybe I'm just babbling. *shrug*