Gender equality and the merrits of diversity

[DevilWithaHalo]

The sexes are different from each other. Genders are different from each other. Gender roles were social constructs designed around the differences of the sexes.

How does any of that determine how a person can or cannot act? Or even should for that matter?

And where's the discussion on the merits of diversity anyway?

<--- Is very confused by the OP.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

EDIT: In the current gender discussion right now there is NO room right now for the opinion that there is a difference between male and female. And at the moment in IT is incredibly hurtful for the comparative discussion.

I need clarification, your efforts to explain make things more confusing.
Instead here's a hypothetical scenario.

-Say you have a little girl, and she likes to play with toy dinosaurs.
-Say you have a little boy and he likes to play with barbie dolls.

Is this somehow wrong in your opinion?

 

[rbstewart7263]

Who the fuck are you to tell other people who to act?

Sorry, but this is just plain ignorance.
I do not act like a tomboy. I act like me and other people get their jimmies all rustled about it. Have you never considered that it is not your place to tell other people how to act?
Tomboys are not who they are to impress you. That's who they are.
You don't have to like it, but you can sure keep your nose out.

Hey, why aren't you in the kitchen?

I agree

This little snippet especially confuses me...

Act your age and act your gender. Most of all act you! We are different for a reason.

So, we can act like we want, so long as it fits our age and gender?

Wut?

Daystar his logic is clearly as infallible as the day is long, the sun is hot, like a hooker in need of penicillan, like a gaming website in need of another gender thread,like..........

 

[rbstewart7263]

Act your age and act your gender. Most of all act you!

This contradiction is so stark and obvious it hurts. The entire world's problems can be placed on the fact that we little humans think we know what's best for everyone else, even though in reality we haven't a fucking clue.

Well anyone arguing with him however contradictory his statement may be are also can be judged in the light of thinking that they know better.

just SAIYAN!!!!!!

 

[Lucem712]

W-what? I'm not personally "acting" like I like anything to impress anyone. I genuinely like football, video games and cars. Just cos I like those things it's not because I'm trying to be 'one of the guys'; it means, oh hey, I like those things and maybe we can talk about it.

 

[Sectan]

Therarchos, I'd just like to say congrats on your Hot Topic badge, which I'm sure will be coming to you any minute now. I'll just back out of this one...

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

 

[Lionsfan]

Being from Denmark myself you know where I come from and I hope you might enlighten me as to why this is suddenly the norm. I DO NOT GET why it is suddenly OK to raise your children gender neutral. It is a problem for a very minor minority that they have problems with their gender. But it will be a huge problem if we raise children without a place in "society". One thing is growing up and not knowing what your place is or "what to fight for" but not even knowing what gender you are? We are in for a shit storm!

I'll do my best to answer your question or at least explain how I understand the situation. The issue is that you see gender as a static phenomenon (correct me if I'm wrong). The role of a specific gender is constantly changing - that is why we see women wearing trousers instead of skirts. But, also the number of genders is changing. You write about how horrible it would be to not know what gender one is. Well, there are people who consider themselves to be men, but cannot fit into the gender role put on them. At the same time, they cannot see themselves in the gender role attributed to women. When we speak of genders it is often as two different one-size-fits-all categories whereas reality is quite different. It may be true that most people fit into either the male or female category, but there are plenty of men in e.g. Denmark that are so vain that we call them metrosexuals and there are crossdressers and so on.

As to your first question, I don't think that it is anyone but the strangest of people who try to raise their children gender-neutral. It is by no means the "norm" to do so anyway. On this I get the point of "not knowing your gender" as being an issue. Letting your son wear a dress in public will quite simply make him an outcast and therefore harm him.

I hope that clarified things.

Thank you!

What I can't get to terms with is the fact that a guy in other words me. Is hardly allowed to find Scarlett Johansen in a leather suit sexy without being sexist. You know what I do. And no that doesn't make me think that women shouldn't be paid same money for same work. But it doesn't make me think that girls and guys should dress/act the same. I might find a tomboy attractive as well as a femme fatale but I'd also might find a classy girl attractive. And yeah I am I guy therefore (as well as girls) my perspective on the other gender is pretty much dictated by my attraction.

Is it sexist? Sexism isn't finding someone attractive, nor is it the act of dressing Scarlett Johansson up in a leather suit. The sexism[footnote]At least what I think is sexism[/footnote] is using her, assets I guess, for only eye-candy. While in the real world a secret-agent probably isn't wearing a leather suit, we also don't have superheroes in the real world, and the male actors are equally eye-candy.

What was sexist though was this type of promo art:

Spoiler

There's no real reason for her to be posed like that, and when the opposite is done,

Spoiler

it just looks ridiculous.

That's sexism, not thinking that Scarlett Johansson is hot

 

[MammothBlade]

Gender ROLES ARE A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.... I HOPE NOT.

There is no such thing as a naturally assigned gender role from birth. For sure, there is some sexual dimorphism which makes some women naturally better at some things and men more talented at certain other activities- but the differences are marginal, and in no way should they stop humans of either gender from realising their aspirations.

Act your age and act your gender. Most of all act you! We are different for a reason.

Sometimes, acting yourself means disregarding traditional gender roles and throwing away the expectations of society. No-one fits comfortably into gender stereotypes or roles - they are invisible prisons which hold back humanity from freedom and individuality.

 

[Lieju]

Wait, what?

The OP is just confusing me in so many ways...

There might be thing girls are more inclined to do, and things that boys are more inclined to do, but generalisations like that don't work on an individual level.
It's possible for a kid to like both playing house and toy-robots, and a lot of things considered 'masculine' or 'feminine' are just cultural.
There's no biological reason that girls should wear pink dresses. (And in fact in history and in different cultures those things have been associated with boys)

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Yea, uh, I'll act different when feminine attitudes, outlooks and activities are rewarded equally in society, as right now they are most certainly not. Till then, I'm acting the way humankind does, and always, rewarded.

I'll admit, I was half tempted to make a snide remark, but you tickled my brain in such an odd way... (spring board!)

Could it be that perhaps the socially constructed gender roles are a mere means to perceivable rewards one desires in our society? In that an action or choice has specific rewards and consequences, and it's mere jealously that creates the opposition to roles which people have been provided with that don't net the same value of reward? So it's not even a matter of freeing the sexes to pursue whatever path they might choose (which actually has already occurred), but the simple fact that someone selfishly wants the same level of reward that another obtains for differing paths?

What is a feminine attitude, outlook and/or activity? In what way does it get rewarded? What is a masculine attitude, outlook and/or activity? In what way does it get rewarded? Are the two inherently equal in nature; whether skill, experience, effort, risk and/or outcome? Should they receive the same rewards? How does one place value on the rewards in with either the feminine or the masculine obtain through their attitudes and activities?

How odd, I've already thought of how this applies to the wage gap myth, and various acceptance movements. Does plain old greed really permeate the ideologies of gender advocacy to such a fundamental degree? I certainly knew it did from a political perspectives in the form of entitlements, but I thought socially it was about acceptance, not reward.

Fuck, I need to deliberate this more. How such a simple statement has confounded me! I'm going to need a drink, this might take a little while.

 

[Sean951]

Yes poor guys, instead of getting a "Men's History" Class, we get history. Instead of women's literature we get... Literature. There is a reason males don't get special treatment, and it's pretty basic. We already run the world.

 

[excalipoor]

Want to trade [Discovery] [Conquest] and [Destruction] for [Protection] and [Material Goods], please send tell!

 

[Vault101]

What I wouldn't like is a girl that tries to be "one of the boys". I don't mind a girl liking bungee jumping or paint ball. Hell that would be awesome, the thing is that a a tomboy might do "it" for me but a girl acting like a tomboy pisses me off. Act your age and act your gender. Most of all act you! We are different for a reason.
.

I'm sorry but your going to have to explain this one to me

I don't and have not "acted my gender" for a very long time...if ever (never actually) am I doing it wrong?

If I wasn't clear tomboys may be tomboys I don't give a damn, but girls acting what they defiantly are not annoys me. I love when a girl makes me think and decides for her self, but that is not the same as NO ACTING LIKE A GIRL. And yeah act your age and act your gender it is WHO you are. It is not religious it is not God or men it is purely what it is. Telling girls that they might not be girls makes for a screwed self view that will haunt them for a VERY long time. Telling a girl that she is a girl might VERY RARELY give worries later. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS THINGS SHOULD NOT CHANGE. And act your age. Take responsibility! It is your DUTY. Why? Because if you don't who the HELL would.

YOUR NOT MAKING ANY SENSE

 

[Vault101]

I also don't get why he thinks people should act that way to please him. I mean, who should care if it pisses him off? Maybe everyone should try to piss people like that off so they'll go make their own society with their oppressive and backwards social values -__-

I think the problem here is the OP is just not making himself understood very well

I think he may be talking about the crazy notion of rasing kids completly without gender (at all)