Genetic engineering & slavery

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

I mean Star trek and mass effect had genetic alterting and they never made Borg and Servitors to fix the pipes. I'd guess everything will be completely automated before genetic engineered chrono gladiators are a thing.

Well, Star Trek had the opposite problem, where they made Super Humans that quickly fucked everything up. And Mass Effect ignores genetic engineering in favor of intentionally exposing populations to Eezo to create super soldiers.

EDIT: And Star Trek did address this problem, though not directly - Both androids and holograms are created sentient and then forced (Or in the androids case, they attempted to force) into servitude. Which is that same core problem here - Genetic engineering is just the tech, it's not the philosophical problem that we're discussing.

Oh right! I had forgotten that Eezo shit. That was some shit.
And I thought Trek had androids, like Data, as fully sentient lifeforms that can choose what they wanted from life. Likewise when Moriarty became sentient on the Holodeck, they worked towards freeing him. Unsuccessfully, but still.

Star Fleet has a bad track record on sentient machines. Data is allowed into Star Fleet because it serves them - He's awesome, and who wouldn't want an android like data in the fleet? And they let him be free... right up until the point to where it would be more beneficial to them to treat him like a toaster. Then they have a no holds bar legal fight over the issue, which luckily, Data wins. So they treat androids as sentient, free willed beings.

Right up until another one is built (Data's daughter), at which point Star Fleet swoops in to try and steal her under the pretense of 'it being the right thing.'

Holograms have it even rougher. Moriarty is promised that they'll look into freeing him... and then they shut him down and don't do squat to help him out. Vic Fontaine is intentionally made sentient just to amuse people, and he's only allowed the freedom of perpetual existence because everyone likes to hear him sing. And his program is sabotaged by the programmer, leading to Fontaine getting dragged through the mud for an episode just to mix things up. The EMH series is reprogrammed to clean plasma conduits when their attitudes are found to be less then desirable, and Star Fleet's response to reports that the Voyager's EMH has become a 'true person' is to scrap the next generation of EMH and reprogram all of them to mine asteroids.

It's rough being made of 1s and 0s in Star Trek.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

The divide between the morality of messing with what nature (or God if that's your argument) intended for the uterus and the ethics of purposely condemning a person to live with genetic diseases when you had the choice to screen it from the start is something that's going to be around for a loooong time I think.

I still am working out how I feel about it all, considering my upbringing and current values.

 

[omega 616]

I've been reading discussions on genetic engineering recently and it seems like things we thought would be impossible may be possible in the future. This combined with some sci-fi I have been reading has made me wonder whether we would ever be able to genetically engineer a slave sub-race of humanity, people who would be bread to be adept at their task and unquestioning to their masters and the morels of keeping slaves that want to be slaves, kind of like most of the house elves from Harry Potter. I think if your going to engineer a slave race your going to want to be able to control them.

Would you see it being forced on the poor to turn the lower classes into obedient slaves or could it be breading organic machines in factories that are as easily replaceable as a truck? Am I being pessimistic and you see genetics heading in a different way (I'm not actually against genetic engineering of humans, I just unfortunately see it heading towards making the rich better than the poor in every way and the poor therefore having no way to compete with the rich).

Funny thing, today I was watching the last in the trilogy of Divergant films (if you've never heard of it, it's like maze runner/hunger games) and it's about this very subject.

Spoiler

Humans starting being born with desirable IQ and things, kind of like designer babies. Except the consequence was the ones with high IQ become unsympathetic and cold etc so the world delves into war 'cos people start going into factions and each one thinks they are better than the other.

Anyway, on topic. I think, as with everything, there would be two camps ... the "who cares, we made them to be slaves, they are bred to be more productive and hardier than "normal" people. So we should use them as slaves" and then their will be the "every sentient life should be free to do as they wish" ... basically be the same arguments that happened with black folk a few years ago! Probably be a red VS blue, republican VS democratic argument like always but due to the course of everything become more free and accepted, the democrats will win.

Oh come on, we have gone from black slaves to a black president! Gay people have gone from killed to fucking parades and getting married, civic freedom is more free than ever!

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

And perhaps a more important question - Why would be bother? When we get to the point of trans-human genetics, or creating new species, surely we'll have the capacity to engineer species to do out work without being sentient at all. Sentients, in fact, would probably do nothing but hinder such workers - It's a high maintenance evolutionary trait. Emotions, breeding urges, the need to socialize... and dozens of other traits too numerous to mention... it's all unnecessary. Just package that does nothing but get in the way of the job at hand. So why build it into any slave race? Seems like something we could just ignore in favor of some dumb biological thing that runs on genetically programmed instinct rather then brute brain power.

And why would you bother with even that? They would likely only be suitable for specific fucntions that don't require much versatility or decision-making.

So it seems to me that if we have the capability to create such worker species, then we'd most likely also have the technology to create tools that can perform those same functions, but better. The tool will never tire, doesn't need to sleep, breathe or be fed, doesn't need living space and can function in environments too extreme for any living creature. They can work at speeds too high and scales too small/great for anything living. Depending on how they are designed, they could be upgraded after implementation. If they break, just replace whatever parts are broken and they're good to go again. If you can't fix them or they become obsolete, just throw them out or recycle the building materials, no one will care.

I might be missing something, but I can't think of any area where a biological slave race would be superior to a sufficiently advanced technological tool.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Genetic engineering for anything else other than treating disease is pretty wrong. Humans aren't made by their genes. Womb conditions, early socialization, and latent cultural structuralism to human thought and belief systems, etc.

Genetic engineering for more than treating disease is merely helping to justify authoritarian control. I also disagree with machine sapience, and even as far as choosing the gender of children through IVF. If you decide to have a child, it's a civil responsibility first, then as a means to fulfill a desire to create a family unit. They are not an accessory. If you would artificially treat your children differently based solely on their sex determining your love and support... chances are you're an appalling person who should not have children.

Artificial gross reduction of total human expression is only acceptable in the cause of maintaining the life and livelihood of those affected by it. Even if these weren't slaves it would still represent a gross violation of basic liberty. I would very much hope people would actively resist any government that tried to create a gen-enged caste system.

 

[Bobular]

I do see genetic engineering becoming mainstream, not in our life time and probably not in our kids life time but I believe that it is inevitable that the rich will start buying 'upgrades' for their children and the industry will expand making it affordable to everyone.

The problem I see is that the rich will undoubtedly have better upgrades than the poor because they can afford them and that will be passed on, creating a society where some people are better than everyone else. Humans being humans I see that being used as an excuse to discriminate.

I also believe this will probably be true for bionics as well. I see humans evolving themselves in the future, the only question in my mind is what form it will take.