German/Japanese WW2 game

[maddawg IAJI]

You mean play a Campaign that you are eventually destined to lose? I don't see any sense of accomplishment being gained there...

basically in Halo Reach you are destined to lose in the campaign =P

Ya, but they set it up so you push forward the motions in the other Halos and eventually allowing Master Chief to finish the fight in the end.

OT: Honestly, no. I've seen far too many already and a change of perspective isn't gonna make it any fresher.

 

[Tupolev]

You mean play a Campaign that you are eventually destined to lose? I don't see any sense of accomplishment being gained there...

I really don't get why people think the ending always needs to be happy in order for a story to be told effectively. "Tragedy" is a rather large genre, for example, and it requires a painful reversal pretty much by definition.

Rather than looking at the inevitable failure as a limitation to a strong conclusion, the industry needs to see it as something to build on.

 

[kouriichi]

Id play it.
Not everyone in the german army was a "Nazi" as most of us define them.
Alot of them were young, and fighting because they had to.

Honestly, the only difference between the "German Warmachine" and the "Amarican armed forces" was what theyer leaders were willing to say out in the open.

Yeah, sure, Hitler killed jewish people.

But look what the amarican goverment did. WE DROPPED A FRIGGAN NUKE! We caused generations of radiation poisoning and went at theyer gene pool with a power drill! We probably caused the deaths of just as many over the course of the years since the bomb was dropped!

Moral of the story: You wouldent be playing "Evil nazi soldiers" or "Crazed Suicidal Samurai". Youd be playing, "Soldier forced to fight or die" and "Making a contribution to his Country."

 

[direkiller]

You mean play a Campaign that you are eventually destined to lose? I don't see any sense of accomplishment being gained there...

Don't all COD games have you die at the end(for some of the people your playing anyway)?
it can be done it just has to be done right

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

You mean play a Campaign that you are eventually destined to lose? I don't see any sense of accomplishment being gained there...

They did the same thing in Halo: Reach, right? People enjoyed the story in that.

I have always kicked around this idea, but I don't think any studio would do it. The fact that most alarmists would have a fit over people playing a Nazi would be a big drawback for potential investors.

 

[Jackpot524]

So... How would it end? At least on the German side? Would you get shot defending Berlin? Captured by the Russians and exiled to a workcamp in Siberia? Or just be part of the mass-surrender in May of 1945... I don't see it being memorable or inspiring...

It could be a game based off of the movie Valkyrie.

I don't think you could pull that off as a FPS though... You're welcome to try!

 

[TheMariner]

I actually see some potential for this. It could be restyled as an alternate-reality version of WW2. Certainly there is enough of a market for alternate historical fiction, at least if books are anything to go by (Harry Turtledove's work as an example). It might be interesting for this concept to be brought to games if it can be done well.
I can't say that I think either of the CoD studios would be the one to handle it if I had my way but if a game were to come out based on this concept, I'd certainly give it a look.

 

[Tim_Buoy]

this opens up all new game modes follow me allied zombies you get to play as hitler stalin mussolini and some other guy fighting zombie allied soldiers

 

[Jackpot524]

You mean play a Campaign that you are eventually destined to lose? I don't see any sense of accomplishment being gained there...

I really don't get why people think the ending always needs to be happy in order for a story to be told effectively. "Tragedy" is a rather large genre, for example, and it requires a painful reversal pretty much by definition.

Rather than looking at the inevitable failure as a limitation to a strong conclusion, the industry needs to see it as something to build on.

It would be a wierd ending, they would need to stir the player with guilt and shame more than anything for it to really represent what the end was like for the Axis... I just don't know how they would accomplish this though...

If they could genuinelly pull it off though, I'd be for it.

EDIT: In hindsight, You don't really 'win' at the end of Killzone 2, but then again the war rages on...

 

[Tangd357]

So... How would it end? At least on the German side? Would you get shot defending Berlin? Captured by the Russians and exiled to a workcamp in Siberia? Or just be part of the mass-surrender in May of 1945... I don't see it being memorable or inspiring...

How about ending as a Japanese soldier fighting a last stand at one of the islands around Japan only to be shot and turn around to see his homeland nuked - his family and country utterly destroyed. To me - if done well - that would be quite a memorable ending.

(Of course - I don't know the specifics of battles that would have occured at the same time as the nuking of Hiroshima/Nagasaki), but I think there would be a lot more to an ending than simply winning an 'epic' last battle or a final boss fight.

Any message behind this sort of game could be done extremely well if done correctly - although I doubt it would be successful or escape media backlash especially if it was aimed to be one of those 'popular mainstream war FPS' (eg the recent Medal of Honour). Partically after finishing and analysing Braid I'd think any possible themes behind it could be worked nicely - it would not likely be produced by a large American game company though, especially since I doubt they'd be good at successful Japanese/German characterisation and they'd probably just glorify the American side from the perspective of the Axis anyway - But it is a thought.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

But look what the amarican goverment did. WE DROPPED A FRIGGAN NUKE! We caused generations of radiation poisoning and went at theyer gene pool with a power drill! We probably caused the deaths of just as many over the course of the years since the bomb was dropped!

Well, it was that or have millions die on both sides trying to take Japan by seaborne-invasion. Japan was completely unwilling to surrender even in the face of imminent defeat, and it was unlikely we would have seen any sort of mass army surrender like in Europe. Additionally, a land invasion would have likely crippled Japan's industrial capability as well, preventing the rather speedy recovery they enjoyed after the war. The atomic bombs were mere slaps compared to the carnage that would have ensued if America had forgone the nuclear option.

Anyhoo...I've always been interested in the German side of the war, and playing as the Germans could certainly be done well. The only problem, as said earlier, is many would find it distasteful playing as the Nazis, or at least on the side defending their ideology, and the fact that you do eventually lose the war. And not in a "Lose the fight, but save the day" way like Reach, but in a "Lose the fight, lose the war, beaten forever" kind of way. Very different. Playing as the British during the Blitz, or as the Americans in The Philippines, or the Russians during Barbarossa are Reach examples. Not a war where you not only fail to win, but also fail to get any sort of victory at all by the end of the day.

That said, if it focused on a sort of "war is hell" mentality, showing the Wehrmacht's fall from being on top of the world after conquering France, to the slow slide into destruction following D-Day and The Bulge. Humanize the soldiers fighting the war, show what they were losing, especially in the face of what they thought they could gain and the hundreds of thousands of dreams that were crushed trying to get it. Unfortunately, this sort of story is better suited for a movie or TV show than a game, because as good of a story-telling medium videogames are, they still need to be FUN at the end of the day. And getting your butt kicked left and right while watching your friends and allies go crazy and destroy themselves from the inside isn't fun.

Wouldnt it be interesting for you to be the one mowing down the Americans durring Dday instead of the other way around? How about participating in Pear Harbor...As long as the whole thing is presented in a tasteful and unbias way I think that it would make a great game.

Being interested in "Mowing down" any group of people isn't particularly tasteful, I'm afraid.

 

[Vryyk]

But the thing is the Japanese were worse then the germans.

I'm glad someone finally mentions this. As bad as the holocaust was, the Japanese killed 11 million civilians over the course of the war. Compared to the hundred thousand or so civilians killed in the two nuclear bombings or the six million Jews killed by Germany the Japanese were very easily the greatest perpetrators of atrocities in WW2.

Hats off to you for your knowledge sir.

 

[warm slurm]

Eh, I dunno. I don't think it would be done tastefully at all. If it was made by an American company, I'm sure they'd make it seem like the atomic bombings of Hiroshima/Nagasaki (which would be the ending of the game, I presume) were "good" things.

It'd get a lot of flak from Germany/Japan anyway, I think. Maybe too much.

 

[Veylon]

If you were doing it from the German perspective, it could be kind of a disillusionment story as the idealistic young soldier becomes a bitter, weary veteran. People were once convinced that Hitler's Germany was the future and that his war would open the door to a shining new era. Granted, it's hard to get into that mindset now, when the Nazis are part of a dark, gritty past and war is inherently evil, but that's what I'd go for. The story could be told through letters being written back to family members.

The missions would have to be different, too. Towards the end, it would things like holding ports so civilians can flee and then getting away as best you can or sneaking behind lines to blow bridges or simply trying to escape encirclement. At least there'd be a reason why each stage is harder than the last one.

 

[Metropocalypse]

Wouldn't playing it feel exactly the same? You're still running around gunning down hoards of nameless soldiers, your in-game character would just have a different accent. I would enjoy it if it meant something distinctly different to the gameplay.

 

[Vryyk]

But look what the amarican goverment did. WE DROPPED A FRIGGAN NUKE! We caused generations of radiation poisoning and went at theyer gene pool with a power drill! We probably caused the deaths of just as many over the course of the years since the bomb was dropped!

You can't compare 100,000 deaths to the 17,000,000-20,000,000 innocent people rounded up and slaughtered by the Axis. I understand that plenty of decent people died in the nuclear bombings, but even if we assume we only dropped the nukes for the fun of it the atrocities have no comparison.

Say what you like about America, but even the My Lai Massacre wasn't a tenth as bad as the Rape of Nanking.

 

[AGrey]

I think the only way to get a game where you play for the axis would be a stealth/fps/rpg (think thief meets fallout) where you play as a french citizen and have the opportunity to join the rebellion or the vichy government, fighting against or working with the german occupation forces.

a sandbox game with your standard bioware slider bar, or something of that type.

but as others have said, a fps where you play a campaign as a german soldier rather than an american or british would be both indistinguishable gameplay-wise and ultimately a failure as far as the story is concerned (no real way to win).

all in all, there are better things to do. for one thing, ww2 has been absolutely played to death. I think i've killed more nazis in games than have ever existed. I wouldn't mind somebody new to fight in a historical battle game.

 

[Wintermoot]

I would love it but the fear mongering media would probaly call it pro nazi or something

 

[gl1koz3]

How about the first part like this:

If you were doing it from the German perspective, it could be kind of a disillusionment story as the idealistic young soldier becomes a bitter, weary veteran. People were once convinced that Hitler's Germany was the future and that his war would open the door to a shining new era. Granted, it's hard to get into that mindset now, when the Nazis are part of a dark, gritty past and war is inherently evil, but that's what I'd go for. The story could be told through letters being written back to family members.

The missions would have to be different, too. Towards the end, it would things like holding ports so civilians can flee and then getting away as best you can or sneaking behind lines to blow bridges or simply trying to escape encirclement. At least there'd be a reason why each stage is harder than the last one.

But once it reaches the point of doing some atrocities, the perspective changes to some of the people against which were the atrocities commited. Non-censored way.

Oh, and going through all that would grant you a beta key to CoD 13.