Germany embassy in Sudan stormed

[Do4600]

And the film maker should be punished why exactly?

For stirring up Anti-Western sentiment, in a time where the political climate isn't at it's most stable this only adds fuel to the fire.

Yes, good idea. Of course if you want to actually stop the protests you'd have to execute him, that's the only acceptable punishment for this level of slander against the Prophet (peace be upon him). You'd need to make it very public if you want the protests to end quickly. Let's execute him on live tv, better yet, let's strip him naked, put a blue cloth over him and stone him to death. That ought to make those Islamic extremists happy. Then next week we can start executing people who have said anything antisemitic. By this time next decade we can have anybody who has ever insulted anybody in the ground and we won't have anymore problems. Ever.

Or maybe we could just, you know, expect a basic level of tolerance and maturity from a group of people that prevents them from committing mass murder every time somebody 6000 miles away with a pencil or video camera states their opinion.

You're holding somebody accountable on the actions of another individual. This is almost as ridiculous as charging a rape victim with adultery, but the latter is more common in the middle east and the former appears to be more common on the escapist forums.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Thats all well and all, but just because (as we can all agree) the film maker is clearly asking for this, doesn't mean we should condone the actions done by those against him.

Ya if I walk up to you and insult you and your whole family, it goes without saying I deserve a punch in the head. But that doesn't change the fact that you doing so is against the law and is essentially assault.

The film maker has done essentially nothing illegal and therefore should not be punished. All these angry protesters ARE doing things that are illegal and harming others, and all of them should be punished for their actions.

 

[Karadalis]

You can barely punctuate your response, I not going to ask you to spell anything out as that would be too taxing for you.

Yeah... you might want to make sure your grammar is perfect when insulting someone based on his punctuation.



OT:

One of the reasons why german embassies where targeted is the continued attempt in germany to forbid a very fundamentalistic radical group of moslems here in germany that have come to prominence recently due to their violent reactions to being critized for being extremely radical and for their agressive attempt of instigating the sharia for their little group.

Ofcourse the islamic world doesnt give a rats ass that you just cant waltz into a foreign country wich has its own laws and totaly disregard these laws and instead demand that you live inside said countrys by your own laws... while still taking advantage of all the benefits you get for living in said country (like wellfare and health insurances and stuff like that.. im sure they wouldnt want to miss those now would they?)

What the islamic world sees is that their fellow believers are being "surpressed" for their beliefs in a western country (something that NEVER happens in their countries ) and not that their political organized group is being forbidden because they try to basicly found their own law system in said country.

As for the video:

Yes it is distastefull and a waste of time. But no matter how offensive, how ridiculing or how wrong it is:

NOTHING... absolutely NOTHING in this world gives you the right to murder innocent people. The apologists in this thread that somehow hint that murdering these innocent bystanders is somehow a "natural" reaction to the movie should be ashamed of themselves because all they do is aknowledging that these extremist fuckwids had the right to do what they did because they where "offended" by this piece of crap that NO ONE in their right mind should be taking serious to begin with because everyone with two functioning braincells will know that this video is NOT the opinion of the american people. And this is comming from a german!

Also the protests where not aimed at the maker of the video.. you know who they where aimed at? The US as a whole and Obama in particular...

People burning the US flag dont give a shit if that movie was one man or groups attempt of rediculing their religion.. those people you see in the streets burning down embassies and flags of other countries? They would kill you for simply not being a muslem in their country anyways, and even if there are no other religions to kill around? They kill each other about how hardcore of a muslem you are (wich can be seen in parts of africa). They dont deserve being protected or apologized for.

 

[Karadalis]

Edit: Double post

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

People die for no reason every second of every day of your life does not make the deaths any less unwarranted or sad

What is your point here?
I never claimed that it wasn't.

Edit: your REALLY thick so im going to spell it out for you. Your world view seems to be that the indirect actions of others can directly cause the people that are offended to take action and I am telling you that you are wrong and that these people are 100% responsible for their one actions,that being angry does not justify or alleviate decisions that you make in anger and that it is no ones fault but the perpetrators that the people who were killed died. It is not the movie makers responsibility to cater to animals with no self control as big of a douche as he might be.

You can barely punctuate your response, I not going to ask you to spell anything out as that would be too taxing for you.

Are you really arguing that a man who clearly hates Muslims/Islam and made a film vilifying it is free and innocent of all guilt to do with this tragedy?
Better call those Nazi film propaganda creators and tell them they're off the hook then, brb.

Brought up Nazis, you lose and are automatically wrong.

 

[Sniper_Zegai]

I've been reading over the newer pages and I direct this at Lyri when I say "Are you serious!?"

I get that you understand that murder was not justified and you don't support the violent reactions of the Muslim rioters but are you actually advocating self-censorship and prior restraint because it might theoretically lead to someone else having a violent reaction?

Say what you want about the material in question but if you actually want to lay down the idea that we should pre-censor films, art and speech on the off chance it might set off a mob then I don't even know what to say to you. Plenty of people get offended all over the world by content posted on the web daily and we see no response from the religious groups of this world with the exception of one and all some people can do is try and play some kind of twisted moral relativism and shift blame to anyone they can.

The pathetic and cowardly label of "hate-speech" is just tiresome to see because it is used in a context that implies if you say something that might fit into it's vaguely defined borders then people who react to it can't be held responsible for their own actions. I don't think this video was hate-speech in my opinion, it portrayed Mohammed as a rapist, murderer and paedophile? He was! The film clearly has a bias but you can't label it as hate-speech and just walk away when some of it's criticisms happen to be true and that's according to the Quran and Haddith!

Play a hypothetical game if you want and say "Well they wouldn't have died if he hadn't have made that film!" but they would also still be alive if Muslims could take any criticism or know the meaning of peaceful protest or understood the world and laws outside of the ignorant bubble they live in yet here we are with bodies adding up and people who should know better coming to their defence acting as if they had no choice. It's depressing to see.

 

[Karadalis]

People die for no reason every second of every day of your life does not make the deaths any less unwarranted or sad

What is your point here?
I never claimed that it wasn't.

Edit: your REALLY thick so im going to spell it out for you. Your world view seems to be that the indirect actions of others can directly cause the people that are offended to take action and I am telling you that you are wrong and that these people are 100% responsible for their one actions,that being angry does not justify or alleviate decisions that you make in anger and that it is no ones fault but the perpetrators that the people who were killed died. It is not the movie makers responsibility to cater to animals with no self control as big of a douche as he might be.

You can barely punctuate your response, I not going to ask you to spell anything out as that would be too taxing for you.

Are you really arguing that a man who clearly hates Muslims/Islam and made a film vilifying it is free and innocent of all guilt to do with this tragedy?
Better call those Nazi film propaganda creators and tell them they're off the hook then, brb.

Brought up Nazis, you lose and are automatically wrong.

Actually you know what.. nazis are a good example how to deal with such a crappy video/message/demonstration

You know what happens when we have one of those local NPD groups (nazi party in germany) step up and demonstrate in the streets for their BS ideals?

We have atleast 3 counter demonstrations preaching against their bullshit nazi propaganda, showing that infact they are just a little group of idots and that the whole of germany is done with any nazi beliefs.

But guess what we dont do? We dont go and kill innocent bystanders because their nazi propaganda insults us germans.

As a matter of fact.. where are the big demonstrations from all those peace loving muslems outside of the western world? We have so many muslems in western nations that havent even taken a step into an islamic nation preaching to us how understanding and peace loving all muslems are. But inside muslimic countries? All i ever see there are demonstrations for the destruction of isreal/america/inserthatedwesternstateofthemonthhere. But no once have i seen a news report about people in muslimic countries demonstrate for peace and understanding and the equality of other religions to their own.

doesnt happen... and that should tell you something about this "peace loving religion" cause either they dont give a damn about others or they get shut down by their own peacefull religion...

 

[BenTheWolf]

The thing that's really bothered me is that this film was on the internet for months before this all kicked off. If that doesn't show it was a pretext then I don't know what does.

The film should never have been put out incidentally. It's offensive and racist, so whilst it's existence can apparently be justified in the USA by the magic of 'freedom of speech' the makers should face prosecution for incitement to religious hatred.

Of course their actions do not justify the response. I would point you to the Danish cartoonist who had a fatwah (I have no idea on the spelling there I'm afraid) declared on him a few years back for drawing a picture of Muhammad. The people perpetrating these atrocities, and the murder of an ambassador is an atrocity, are sheep being led by hateful men bastardizing their own largely peaceful religion. The response by Muslims I've heard of in my country (England), at least those who are sane, seems to be condemnation both of the film and of the response.

Probably also worth noting that there has been widespread disgust amongst ordinary Libyans at the actions of the extremists. For example the day after the ambassador's death the local hospital named a ward after him. If the extremists were the majority in that country that would be an invitation to a pipebomb, none has yet been forthcoming.

The reason it's all kicked off in this way is that the Middle East and Gulf states are in flux at the moment. So many dictators, who would previously have dealt with this stuff by means of genocide have been removed. This means the countries are a melting pot of different beliefs and attitudes. Something was always going to happen, just sad it has been something brought on by an idiot with a camera really.

And as to why Obama et al have not weighed in in a big way. They can either pull out of the countries, wrecking relations with the Gulf states and losing all their oil but being more popular with Americans or stay there and try to influence the governments in order to negotiate best terms for the USA, whilst pissing off their own citizens due to lack of action. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[CheckD3]

....Obama apologized to the people who killed American citizens, including an ambassador?...he must not want for me to vote for him that badly. For Christ sake, is there no middle ground with this country? It's either full out invading other countries, or apologizing to other countries after they kill our people.

If you look it up, this isn't a single country incident. Riots and flag burning and everything are happening in countries around the world, all because one person trolled and insulted Muslims.

The apology is trying to separate the country from the movie of an individual. Again, just because we have free speech doesn't me everyone has to agree with it. If someone went up to an African American man and started calling him a 'jive ass n---" and other hurtful names, would you stand next to him and support him, or would you distance yourself from a stance you don't agree with?

This entire thing is getting REALLY bad, and the worst part is a country is being punished for the actions of one man, and people are getting hurt and killed because of this. This isn't the time to fight back, this is the time we need to defuse this situation NOW.

One last comparison. It's like when parents apologize for their children when they do something bad. It's not the parents fault the child ran into someone or hit them, they can't control their actions, but they need to take responsibility for them because the child's actions reflect not just their own, but their families as well.

The saddest part of America is that free speech protects people who spew hate and vile actions against one another. This movie insults entire religions, Fox News constantly is attacking people they disagree with, and the WBC can protest funerals, their hate destroying the mental health of families already damaged by the loss of their loved ones, and they're all protected by free speech. Makes me sick how people abuse this privilege.

 

[ShawnDOtt]

I had to make an account just to put an end to the madness.

If you think the violence is a perversion of Islam by a small group of radicals, you are woefully uninformed. Shariaw Law (The Islamic legal system employed in Islamic theocracies like Iran or Sudan) and the Qur'an itself demands death for those who insult the Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah and Islam. Muhammad himself put to death many people for insulting him. To believe the actions of these terrorists was un-Islamic is to say the Prophet Muhammad doesn't understand Islam, which is sort of like saying Moses doesn't understand Judaism. There's a reason why this sort of thing happens EVERY time someone criticises Muhammad. Christ, the president of Iran called for the death of Salman Rushdie for publishing a work of fiction; was he a radical too?

Also, shame on those who blame the film maker. I saw the film. It was awful. Acting, writing, camera work, all terrible. But he's not to blame for the death of innocent people. Nor does he deserve death. Stating facts about someone which undercut the facade his followers has created does not warrant death. If he's wrong for stating the facts, then so am I, and with this post I've just caused the deaths of innocent people.

The more you know!

 

[Fappy]

On a related note we ate at a KFC last night to honor the KFC that was burned down during the rioting XP

 

[SnowBurst]

"OFF TO THE USA EMBASSY!!!... oh wait its already been done?...WELL...TO THE GERMAN ONE THEN!!!" lmao

 

[Atmos Duality]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the definition of "Embassy" isn't that technically act of war?

 

[ShawnDOtt]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

Sorry, in what way is Islam a peaceful religion?

 

[Jarsh82]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Put it this way.

I child is poking a sleeping bear with a stick.

Now that child has all the right in the world to poke that bear with said stick.

Just don't be surprised when the bear wakes up and mauls him.

Freedom of speech isn't some infallible defence to say what you want. I'm sick of people claiming that it is, and that any action taken against someone because of what they said is impeding their 'rights'.

Yeah I agree, but I'm really not sure what side you're on. Because the extremist Muslims have no right to attempt fucking murder because they're offended, offense shouldn't make crime bad. And no-one should have to apologize to the people attacking buildings and issuing bomb thread. The level-headed Muslims should apologize to Germany and the US for the utter bastards they have in their religion. Like you said, free speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences. Religion shouldn't mean no consequences for terrorism, and damn apologies!

BTW, I'm really not talking about all muslims. I'm talking specifically about the ones who are doing this shit, the extremists. They're criminals and terrorists, they don't have the right to murder and terrorism because they were offended.

I'm certainly not defending the actions of the radicals

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

We should be surprised when people don't act like people.

 

[Sniper_Zegai]

I had to make an account just to put an end to the madness.

If you think the violence is a perversion of Islam by a small group of radicals, you are woefully uninformed. Shariaw Law (The Islamic legal system employed in Islamic theocracies like Iran or Sudan) and the Qur'an itself demands death for those who insult the Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah and Islam. Muhammad himself put to death many people for insulting him. To believe the actions of these terrorists was un-Islamic is to say the Prophet Muhammad doesn't understand Islam, which is sort of like saying Moses doesn't understand Judaism. There's a reason why this sort of thing happens EVERY time someone criticises Muhammad. Christ, the president of Iran called for the death of Salman Rushdie for publishing a work of fiction; was he a radical too?

Also, shame on those who blame the film maker. I saw the film. It was awful. Acting, writing, camera work, all terrible. But he's not to blame for the death of innocent people. Nor does he deserve death. Stating facts about someone which undercut the facade his followers has created does not warrant death. If he's wrong for stating the facts, then so am I, and with this post I've just caused the deaths of innocent people.

The more you know!

Dude, I haven't posted on here in years and I re-activated my account to say just this. Nobody cares about the facts of Islam apparently.

You don't see the Amish pulling this crap.

 

[Kleingeier]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

Oh come now, no monotheistic religion is an inherently pure or peaceful religion. All you need is a catalyst; and no religion, no matter how peaceful it suggests itself, can stop man from hurting himself.

 

[ShawnDOtt]

It's disgusting how easily a peaceful religion can get twisted and corrupted like this. Hopefully cooler-heads prevail and they can calm the radicals down.

Oh come now, no monotheistic religion is an inherently pure or peaceful religion. All you need is a catalyst; and no religion, no matter how peaceful it suggests itself, can stop man from hurting himself.

Actually, Jainism is inherently peaceful, while Islam is inherently violent.

 

[ShawnDOtt]

I had to make an account just to put an end to the madness.

If you think the violence is a perversion of Islam by a small group of radicals, you are woefully uninformed. Shariaw Law (The Islamic legal system employed in Islamic theocracies like Iran or Sudan) and the Qur'an itself demands death for those who insult the Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah and Islam. Muhammad himself put to death many people for insulting him. To believe the actions of these terrorists was un-Islamic is to say the Prophet Muhammad doesn't understand Islam, which is sort of like saying Moses doesn't understand Judaism. There's a reason why this sort of thing happens EVERY time someone criticises Muhammad. Christ, the president of Iran called for the death of Salman Rushdie for publishing a work of fiction; was he a radical too?

Also, shame on those who blame the film maker. I saw the film. It was awful. Acting, writing, camera work, all terrible. But he's not to blame for the death of innocent people. Nor does he deserve death. Stating facts about someone which undercut the facade his followers has created does not warrant death. If he's wrong for stating the facts, then so am I, and with this post I've just caused the deaths of innocent people.

The more you know!

Dude, I haven't posted on here in years and I re-activated my account to say just this. Nobody cares about the facts of Islam apparently.

You don't see the Amish pulling this crap.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has observed this sort of thing.