Getting Back Into The Game(About Dating)

[rossatdi]

You mean pushing down your natural insecurities to interact with people more confidently? I taught myself that without a book.

In a dating situation I don't really see the merit. If I was to flip it on my head and I was a girl that had gone out with a PUA/'fake it till you make it' person and found out ... I would, firstly, never want to see them again and, secondly, think a lot less of them as people. The entire point of dating is to get to know a person for who they are, not to evaluate their trained skill sets.

Its like entering a cheat code into a game only to make it to the end and get the bad ending screen just because you cheated.

Although if you're from Luton I can see how you'd need all the help you can get (go Watford!).

 

[curlycrouton]

My opinion: Anyone who needs to read a self-help book in order to pick up women probably has some serious confidence issues, issues which are probably better adressed by a psychiatrist than a "Pick Up Artist" shaped like an egg. I mean come on, this is just stupid, there's a book telling us, us un-romantic, vegetating sods, who can't so much as look at a women without bursting into tears and snivelling into our own ragged, dirty sleeves, who are so spectacularily dull that we need a bald, magician look-a-like to tell us how to "pick up" women like they're some kind of possesion, like a sidebag, to make you look "cool" or "succesful", what to do with women. Or at least that's what Neil thinks you are, you pathetic vermin!

Snip.

My objection was that we, as a human race, have become so numb, so helpless, that now apparently we need a book to instruct us on how to do what previously we had to figure out ourselves. Ever done that before? Now cooking or dancing is somewhat different, as it requires a set method, however picking up women is something that can only really be learnt by experience, by finding what makes you appealing.

So, the Bible. I suppose that Neil Strauss can be compared to Jesus too then? No, because Jesus' principles were applicable to all areas of life, were previously he thought that the human race had been suffering. You can't learn how to do such things as "Worship your one true God" by experience, because you don't know about it, which is why the Bible was made, whereas dating, as I said before, has to be learnt by experience, as does the whole principle of self-confidence. A book can't do that for you.

You mean pushing down your natural insecurities to interact with people more confidently? I taught myself that without a book.

In a dating situation I don't really see the merit. If I was to flip it on my head and I was a girl that had gone out with a PUA/'fake it till you make it' person and found out ... I would, firstly, never want to see them again and, secondly, think a lot less of them as people. The entire point of dating is to get to know a person for who they are, not to evaluate their trained skill sets.

Its like entering a cheat code into a game only to make it to the end and get the bad ending screen just because you cheated.

I also agree with the entirety of this post.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Yeah, I guess my statement is that its not like "Picking up chicks for dummies" or something, I see it as a story first.

Fair point

You mean pushing down your natural insecurities to interact with people more confidently? I taught myself that without a book.

In a dating situation I don't really see the merit. If I was to flip it on my head and I was a girl that had gone out with a PUA/'fake it till you make it' person and found out ... I would, firstly, never want to see them again and, secondly, think a lot less of them as people. The entire point of dating is to get to know a person for who they are, not to evaluate their trained skill sets.

Its like entering a cheat code into a game only to make it to the end and get the bad ending screen just because you cheated.

Although if you're from Luton I can see how you'd need all the help you can get (go Watford!).

First off, congratulations, now realise that not everyone has the ability to do that.
There's also a problem with these "If I was this or that" statements, you can't say you would because you're not a girl, and(hopefully)you never will be. In the sense that you won't suddenly change into a girl I mean.
I've heard the "cheat code" analogy before, alot of my friends tell me the same thing. I pose you this question, you have learnt something before right? Anything, from drawing to water skiing, even if you have a natural talent for anything in the world there will be a period of repetition(in this case using the same "lines" over an over)where you will do the same things until you adapt and you make that certain thing your own, you adapt it to suit your style.

In videogames even, let's turn your analogy on its head by using COD4 as an example. Now there's debate about the whole "M16 is a noob gun" thing but people who start afresh have to use the gun, it's one of two assault rifles you get at the beginning so naturally people are going to use it who start out and they will slowly adapt and begin to use new guns once they're unlocked. The M16 is really a "crutch" to get the person into the game, they may suck with said gun but they will adapt and find their own playstyle within the game and that is what happens with anything, not just games or PUA stuff.

And lastly I'm not sure how where I live has anything to do with this.

 

[WolfThomas]

And lastly I'm not sure how where I live has anything to do with this.

I wonder how much of "the game" is regional? A lot of the stuff he does seems like stuff L.A. people would fall for. In Australia I'm pretty sure magic tricks wouldn't work and negs would probably get you into a few fights.

 

[darkless]

Anyone who needs to read a book in order to pick up woman has no personality.

Or so i believe i could be very wrong but thats how it seems.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Now cooking or dancing is somewhat different, as it requires a set method, however picking up women is something that can only really be learnt by experience, by finding what makes you appealing.

Ok, I'm afraid you've lost me, if cooking and dancing require a "set" method then I seriously need to reevaluate my life now.
Not everyone will measure the same amount of cinnamon to add to whatever they're making, not every dancer will put their foot in the same 90 degree angle that they're meant to or move in the same way. My point still stands, there is repetition at the beginning, you learn the "set" method, then you adapt, you add your own flair to it.
And what do you think we do when we go out? Just stand and look at the women? Of course we're gaining experience too, every time we approach a woman, every set we lead, every advacne we make is experience, but again, there is a beginning period or repetition before we can make ever approach and advance our own. If we are somehow "cheating" then best get all those Delia Smith cookbooks off the shelves stat.

So, the Bible. I suppose that Neil Strauss can be compared to Jesus too then?

I never compared him with Jesus, I compared their "teachings".

No, because Jesus' principles were applicable to all areas of life, were previously he thought that the human race had been suffering. You can't learn how to do such things as "Worship your one true God" by experience, because you don't know about it, which is why the Bible was made, whereas dating, as I said before, has to be learnt by experience, as does the whole principle of self-confidence. A book can't do that for you.

Though Jesuss' teachings are applicable to all areas of life so are Neils', just that his are abit more recent and upto date with said times. And I've already addressed the experience thing.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

And lastly I'm not sure how where I live has anything to do with this.

I wonder how much of "the game" is regional? A lot of the stuff he does seems like stuff L.A. people would fall for. In Australia I'm pretty sure magic tricks wouldn't work and negs would probably get you into a few fights.

Only one way to find out.
ROAD TRIP!!!!
I'll drive lol

 

[WolfThomas]

I think there's some judging of a book by its cover going on here. If you disagree/agree with the concept of PUAs and the culture around it voice your ideas. But read the book before attacking it.

I enjoyed it. I don't want to be a PUA. But its a good book.

Only one way to find out.
ROAD TRIP!!!!
I'll drive lol

Why the hell not? I'm up for any adventure.

 

[rossatdi]

You mean pushing down your natural insecurities to interact with people more confidently? I taught myself that without a book.

In a dating situation I don't really see the merit. If I was to flip it on my head and I was a girl that had gone out with a PUA/'fake it till you make it' person and found out ... I would, firstly, never want to see them again and, secondly, think a lot less of them as people. The entire point of dating is to get to know a person for who they are, not to evaluate their trained skill sets.

Its like entering a cheat code into a game only to make it to the end and get the bad ending screen just because you cheated.

Although if you're from Luton I can see how you'd need all the help you can get (go Watford!).

First off, congratulations, now realise that not everyone has the ability to do that.
There's also a problem with these "If I was this or that" statements, you can't say you would because you're not a girl, and(hopefully)you never will be. In the sense that you won't suddenly change into a girl I mean.

I've heard the "cheat code" analogy before, alot of my friends tell me the same thing. I pose you this question, you have learnt something before right? Anything, from drawing to water skiing, even if you have a natural talent for anything in the world there will be a period of repetition(in this case using the same "lines" over an over)where you will do the same things until you adapt and you make that certain thing your own, you adapt it to suit your style.

In videogames even, let's turn your analogy on its head by using COD4 as an example. Now there's debate about the whole "M16 is a noob gun" thing but people who start afresh have to use the gun, it's one of two assault rifles you get at the beginning so naturally people are going to use it who start out and they will slowly adapt and begin to use new guns once they're unlocked. The M16 is really a "crutch" to get the person into the game, they may suck with said gun but they will adapt and find their own playstyle within the game and that is what happens with anything, not just games or PUA stuff.

And lastly I'm not sure how where I live has anything to do with this.

If we're sticking with gaming analogies.

At the beginning of this year I was a low level Playa with almost no skill ranks in chatting people up, a chronic lack of self-esteem hit points and lets just say my Charisma score would have barred me from choosing Paladin as my character class.

So I did some grinding (social sense, not hookers) levelled up a few times and my THAC0 has increased dramatically because of it. I didn't have to use a cheat code or even use the manual. It's pretty obvious you get better at something with practice. There are little tricks you pick up but your confidence builds with interaction.

Personally I like the M16, I'm happily capable of using just about everything else (not really bothered about the sniper rifles) but I like using Steady Aim and Stopping Power to be able nail any target I set my sights on as long as I use my wits. I've used the spray weapons a few times but I find you don't pick up to many good hits that way, and I'm not quite skillful enough to do my best with the single shot sniping weapons.

Some times I get burned because I'm using the wrong tactic but you learn from this in a natural manner, I don't really want to read a guide on how to play well because I'd rather work it out myself. That might just be what I like, but I suspect people find it more rewarding.

For physical and social interaction there is only so much you can read to learn. As for dating I've found that a little bit of confidence in your lack of confidence then managing it isn't a big deal.

And as for putting yourself in their shoes I think it's a bit unsympathetic to assume that playing them using well rehearsed psychological tricks is totally fine and dandy.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Why the hell not?

Because I have no money(I'm a student you see lol)and I start back at uni next week
In a few years though? Who knows

However, back on topic. Initially I didn't like the sound of what they were doing in the book either but it forced me to take a look at myself and reassess what I wanted versus how I should go about getting it and how I was going about getting it at that moment, I had to change my outlook a huge deal. My goals are still the same, my morals and my ambitions are the same, just the way I'm going about getting what I want in the end has changed, and if anything as a person I have become a whole lot better.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

If we're sticking with gaming analogies.

At the beginning of this year I was a low level Playa with almost no skill ranks in chatting people up, a chronic lack of self-esteem hit points and lets just say my Charisma score would have barred me from choosing Paladin as my character class.

So I did some grinding (social sense, not hookers) levelled up a few times and my THAC0 has increased dramatically because of it. I didn't have to use a cheat code or even use the manual. It's pretty obvious you get better at something with practice. There are little tricks you pick up but your confidence builds with interaction.

Personally I like the M16, I'm happily capable of using just about everything else (not really bothered about the sniper rifles) but I like using Steady Aim and Stopping Power to be able nail any target I set my sights on as long as I use my wits. I've used the spray weapons a few times but I find you don't pick up to many good hits that way, and I'm not quite skillful enough to do my best with the single shot sniping weapons.

Some times I get burned because I'm using the wrong tactic but you learn from this in a natural manner, I don't really want to read a guide on how to play well because I'd rather work it out myself. That might just be what I like, but I suspect people find it more rewarding.

For physical and social interaction there is only so much you can read to learn. As for dating I've found that a little bit of confidence in your lack of confidence then managing it isn't a big deal.

And as for putting yourself in their shoes I think it's a bit unsympathetic to assume that playing them using well rehearsed psychological tricks is totally fine and dandy.

I think we're both on different sides of the same coin here. It just depends on the thing you're doing really and the sort of person you are. With me I can either read or watch someone do something(in the case of Parkour)and be able to replicate it. Like with driving, I never picked up a book on it, I learnt everything I know from my dad, my instructor and just going out and driving, no book necessary. Even if I do read a book, like now with PUA stuff I never analyze every word or syllable, I skim read these things because I know a book can only get so far before you have to do things yourself.

Now I'm not arguing that yes using a book is kind of sad, analyzing every passage, yes is "sad" but that's not what I do. Some people may do it but then that's their own perogative I suppose, we all learn differently. If I've had a particuarly bad night I might consult it for abit to see what I should've done in the situation I messed up on so I won't mess up again, but I'll soon abandon what the book said and use my own talent, add my own flair to that situation instead of doing what the book says, and that's all I'm trying to get at really. Using a book is good up until a certain point, it is a "crutch" of sorts helping you until you can walk by yourself and adapt and triumph. Not just "The Mystery Method" or any other PUA book but every book is like this, if you're going to say that reading a PUA book is sad and not worth it then maybe we should burn all self help books in existence because they do the same, but how much it affects a person depends on the person and how they learn.

 

[WolfThomas]

Why the hell not?

Because I have no money(I'm a student you see lol)and I start back at uni next week
In a few years though? Who knows

Yeah I forgot that, I'm a broke uni student too. Maybe later when (here's hoping) we're super rich and can private jet from capital to capital.

However, back on topic. Initially I didn't like the sound of what they were doing in the book either but it forced me to take a look at myself and reassess what I wanted versus how I should go about getting it and how I was going about getting it at that moment, I had to change my outlook a huge deal. My goals are still the same, my morals and my ambitions are the same, just the way I'm going about getting what I want in the end has changed, and if anything as a person I have become a whole lot better.

Yours seems to be a sensible interpretation of the ideas. I think most of the other posters envision people like Papa and Tyler Durden from the book. The ones I liked in the books where those who had their shit together like Juggler and too a lesser extent Sin.

Off topic, do you agree 19 is a weird age? (I'm going through it now also).

 

[rossatdi]

If you're going to say that reading a PUA book is sad and not worth it then maybe we should burn all self help books in existence because they do the same, but how much it affects a person depends on the person and how they learn.

Technically I hate the burning of any books and would never condone it, technically. As far as I'm concerned outside of technical manuals on how to do stuff safely (tips for runners and how to fix your car, for example) I don't believe in the 'self-help' industry. I very much consider it a gigantic scam run by very smart people to remove money from very gullible people.

I hate it when people say "this book changed my life" because all I can say to it is "because your £20 poorer?".

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Can I say "this ebook changed my life"?. Plus I don't buy books, internet baby lol
I got them free, so I'm not really any poorer than I was before
But can we agree to disagree on this? I think most arguments in life can be solved simply with "we're all different" lol, but then arguments wouldn't be very fun and would get boring and then soon none of us would have free thought because we're using the same counter argument for every argument and then arguments would cease to exist and society would tear itself apart from the inside out.................:/

Sorry, lost my train of thought there

Why the hell not?

Because I have no money(I'm a student you see lol)and I start back at uni next week
In a few years though? Who knows

Yeah I forgot that, I'm a broke uni student too. Maybe later when (here's hoping) we're super rich and can private jet from capital to capital.

However, back on topic. Initially I didn't like the sound of what they were doing in the book either but it forced me to take a look at myself and reassess what I wanted versus how I should go about getting it and how I was going about getting it at that moment, I had to change my outlook a huge deal. My goals are still the same, my morals and my ambitions are the same, just the way I'm going about getting what I want in the end has changed, and if anything as a person I have become a whole lot better.

Yours seems to be a sensible interpretation of the ideas. I think most of the other posters envision people like Papa and Tyler Durden from the book. The ones I liked in the books where those who had their shit together like Juggler and too a lesser extent Sin.

Off topic, do you agree 19 is a weird age? (I'm going through it now also).

Leave your hope at the door lol, we will be super rich

I would love to meet Tyler Durden, Mystery and Style, I think I would just die on the spot from their sheer awesomesauceness lol. Though yeah Tyler is abit weird, I would analyze him and most likely vice versa.
Do I agree with what at 19 though? That it's a weird number? That having your first relationship at 19 is odd? That I would agree with, it does indeed feel odd.

 

[WolfThomas]

Do I agree with what at 19 though? That it's a weird number? That having your first relationship at 19 is odd? That I would agree with, it does indeed feel odd.

Just weirdish, I feel way older then I was in high school, but at the same time so young as an adult. I constantly think crap I should have done (blank) in my past, then realise I have a lot of living ahead of me.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Yeah same. I turn 20 this March, scary thoughts lol. But my life is only just beginning, well the best of my life anyways, god knows I had a non existant childhood lol.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I feel this thread has run it's course methinks lol. Unless anyone wants to put in their two cents. Bryn I shall catch you around mate. I'm off to play some Mass Effect

 

[WolfThomas]

I feel this thread has run it's course methinks lol. Unless anyone wants to put in their two cents. Bryn I shall catch you around mate. I'm off to play some Mass Effect

Nice talking to you mate, hope to do it again.

 

[Danny Ocean]

*irrelevant*

Wow, who'd have thought that someone several thousand miles away would have the same first name as me!

On topic, I might just go and pick up this book. This probably sounds stalkerish, but I find the female mind fascinating. It just seems so much more complex than a guy's (This isn't necessarily a good thing, though.).

 

[rossatdi]

This probably sounds stalkerish, but I find the female mind fascinating.

Yes, yes it does. That's the whole problem with this 'treating it like a social science' thing. It makes you seem weird, and unless you're very good at bluffing it'll make you seem that way to the people you've targeted.