Getting My First Car

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Reiper

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Mar 26, 2009
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Hello,

So I am looking into buying my first car, and I am looking for some input on the direction I should take.

First off, I will say that I am thinking of leasing a new car, my rationale for that is this
-I want a manufacturer warranty
-I want the option of getting rid of the car easily in a few years
-I like the idea of a new car
-I feel it will be easier to afford monthly payments for me

Do you feel my rationale is good / should I consider other options?

Second, What kind of car do you guys recommend. I don't have much experience, but I have been looking at these models
-Mazda 3
-Chevy Cruze
-Kia Forte
-Honda Civic

Are these models any good / do you recommend any others? My price range is 18,000-25,000 max (this is canadian dollars / prices)

When in the dealership, how do I tell if I am getting a good deal. I don't have much experience, so I don't want a salesman to play me like an instrument. Are there any tricks to telling if you are getting a good deal.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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I am doing literally the same thing right now with pretty much the same price range. It isn't my first care, but it's the first one I am buying 100% on my own.

This weekend I test drove the Dodge Dart, Mazda 3 and the Chevy Cruze. Of the three I preferred the Mazda in both power and fuel economy, but I like the others as well. My sister has a Civic and I've driven that thing a few thousand miles already, so I was pretty much just comparing the cars to that.

Going new isn't a bad idea for a number of financial reasons I don't quite understand (insurance related, my step-dad told me but I forgot). I wouldn't completely rule out used if you can find a good deal though.

Of the four cars I mentioned I preferred the Mazda and will likely go that route, but I suggest test driving all of the cars you are looking at before committing to one.
 

Fappy

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Also, at least in my area the Mazda dealers have a lot of leftover new 2012 models. The 2012 and 2013 Mazda 3 are apparently identical cars and you should be able to knock a few thousand off the price tag if you go 2012. Keep this possibility in mind!
 

Rastien

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Jun 22, 2011
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Man how did you earn this cash for your FIRST car >_> seriously it's impressive my first car... whats the insurance gonna be like on it also :S

My first car:

My current car isn't much better

i pay £75 a month on insurance and thats breaking my balls still
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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Fappy said:
Going new isn't a bad idea for a number of financial reasons I don't quite understand (insurance related, my step-dad told me but I forgot). I wouldn't completely rule out used if you can find a good deal though.
Safety features have gotten a lot better in the past 10 years. Electronic stability control is ever increasingly standard, as are side impact airbags.

Generally, what you're going to pay to lease a car over two years is going to be a bit more than two years loss in value. Getting rid of a car isn't much more difficult than buying a new car, you just have to throw in haggling over the trade-in value to everything else.

If you live in a rural area, it can be hard to stay in the low mileage lease agreement, and you'll get charged $.10-.15/mi. My cousin leased a car despite living in the boonies and went way over her miles, had to pay a little over a grand for that.
Rastien said:
i pay £75 a month on insurance and thats breaking my balls still
I pay $266...but I have collision now (new car). Before that I paid $183.
cloroxbb said:
As for those models... pretty diverse lineup IMO. I would go for a Ford Focus HB, but that is me.
Hatchbacks rule. I'd add the Chevy Sonic and Honda Fit to the possibilities, because I love me some hatchbacks.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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Nov 9, 2010
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cloroxbb said:
I wouldnt lease it, its just like renting a house, you are making payments and at the end of the lease you have NOTHING to show for it.

If you have $25,000 to spend on a car, I would just BUY a car. Selling cars is easy, you just trade it in, at least that way you will get money toward another car, whereas a lease, you are limited on how many miles you can drive it, you cant sell it, and usually you need like $3000 upfront just to lease it...

But whatever to each their own :)

As for those models... pretty diverse lineup IMO. I would go for a Ford Focus HB, but that is me.
Paying monthly isn't leasing... its credit! When you pay it off it's yours...

OT: Mazda3 all the way! I have a Mazda6... It's gorram awesome!

I had a 200 quid motorbike as my first! Honda CG125, 1988 model! Loved it! Got my first car at 20, a Vauxhall Astra, 03 model... Did me well for 3 years... now I have the Mazda!
 

Dags90

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Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Paying monthly isn't leasing... its credit! When you pay it off it's yours...
OP explicitly says he plans to lease because the monthly payments are lower than financing. You get lower payments for 2-3 years, then you give the car back and hope you didn't drive more than 10,000 miles a year.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

RIP Eleuthera, I will miss you
Nov 9, 2010
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Dags90 said:
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Paying monthly isn't leasing... its credit! When you pay it off it's yours...
OP explicitly says he plans to lease because the monthly payments are lower than financing. You get lower payments for 2-3 years, then you give the car back and hope you didn't drive more than 10,000 miles a year.
Wow! Yous guys countries are fucking weird! If you tried renting cars like that over here you would get raped of your money!!
 

Reiper

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Mar 26, 2009
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cloroxbb said:
I wouldnt lease it, its just like renting a house, you are making payments and at the end of the lease you have NOTHING to show for it.

If you have $25,000 to spend on a car, I would just BUY a car. Selling cars is easy, you just trade it in, at least that way you will get money toward another car, whereas a lease, you are limited on how many miles you can drive it, you cant sell it, and usually you need like $3000 upfront just to lease it...

But whatever to each their own :)

As for those models... pretty diverse lineup IMO. I would go for a Ford Focus HB, but that is me.
sorry if I was unclear.

To clarify, I don't actually have enough straight cash to buy a car, I was just listing the price range of car I was looking at.

I think $300 a month is about the most I can realistically afford since I am going to school as well.
 

yeti585

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Apr 1, 2012
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Champthrax said:
Hello,

So I am looking into buying my first car, and I am looking for some input on the direction I should take.

First off, I will say that I am thinking of leasing a new car, my rationale for that is this
-I want a manufacturer warranty
-I want the option of getting rid of the car easily in a few years
-I like the idea of a new car
-I feel it will be easier to afford monthly payments for me

Do you feel my rationale is good / should I consider other options?
Not enough reason to buy new. The manufacturer warranty will only cover warranty repairs, you can always scrap the car at the junkyard, get a "little trees" "black ice" air freshener and vacuum, most used dealerships can set up monthly payments. Also, most wear and tear repairs can be learned in an hour. Wanna know how to change oil?
-Get under the car, look under the engine for a random screw near the bottom
-loosen screw with a wrench, twist out quickly with fingers once possible (because oil will come gushing out)
-let oil drain into oil pan
-remove oil filter
-let all the oil drain, replace the screw, smear some new oil on the rubber ring in the filter, replace filter
-put new oil in

Second, What kind of car do you guys recommend. I don't have much experience, but I have been looking at these models
-Mazda 3
-Chevy Cruze
-Kia Forte
-Honda Civic

Are these models any good / do you recommend any others? My price range is 18,000-25,000 max (this is canadian dollars / prices)
If you are going to get a Honda get an Accord. If you buy a used civic it will be riced to all hell, and will most likely be a stick (unless you can drive a stick, some parts of Canada are big on it and others aren't). The Mazda 3 is okay, but as I said, you want to buy used. I wouldn't recommend a Kia or an American made car (short of a 'vette or camaro but I doubt you are looking for a sports car). If you deal with a good bit of weather (read: lolCanadaWinters) or want a car good for wear and tear, get a Hyundai Santa Fe.

When in the dealership, how do I tell if I am getting a good deal. I don't have much experience, so I don't want a salesman to play me like an instrument. Are there any tricks to telling if you are getting a good deal.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks
Don't admit it's your first car/first time buying too soon. This throws a flag up in the guys mind to screw you. If you can, act like you know what you are doing, ask the guy if you can look under the hood, under the car, etc.. If you know something is wrong, make it obvious that it's got things wrong with it. If they let you under the hood of a used car, the first words out of you mouth should be "errrrr..." with a look of apprehension.

The best rule is probably to go with your gut.
 

el_kabong

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Mar 18, 2010
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Echoing some other posters, I wouldn't lease. Leasing is only good if it's "lease to own", if the everyday maintenance of said item is taken care of, or if it's on the company dollar (ie - business expense). Essentially, most leases for automobiles I run across are essentially you paying near a car payment per month, in addition to all general wear maintenance costs, and then, instead of having a vehicle to trade in for some value, it's simply handed back over to the dealership, who will still charge the next person full blue-book value.

In regards to make and model, I advise that you strongly consider where you want your life to go. This is both in regards to recreation and family. I bought my first (new) car for it being easily within my budget and gas efficient (I spent a considerable time having to drive to school, summer jobs, etc.). However, if current me could go back and tell past me what to get, I'd get something much bigger. Winter's suck where I currently live and I didn't take into account (being a summer purchase) how much my car sucks during the winter. Furthermore, the hatchback was enough for myself as a budding, young musician. Now that I play upright bass in a psychobilly band that I run the PA for, I really wish I had more room. There's really no way to expand my current system without buying a whole new vehicle.

I doubt that these characteristics will directly have to do with you, but take it as a warning to make sure that whatever you pick is able to handle your immediate future plans.
 

CruisingForBiddies

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I will say try to avoid American cars, purely because the few I have driven were average but I guess parts would be cheaper (assuming you live in he US of A). Apart from that a Civic is always a solid choice but get whatever makes you happy
 

yeti585

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el_kabong said:
However, if current me could go back and tell past me what to get, I'd get something much bigger. Winter's suck where I currently live and I didn't take into account (being a summer purchase) how much my car sucks during the winter
You just reminded me of something critical, Tailor your purchase to your surroundings. If you Have a "good" climate with mostly tarmac roads, go RWD as it will be funner and can handle tarmac quite well. Another plus to RWD is little to no "torque-steer" (one driving wheel bites on takeoff, but the other doesn't so you start turning), even though this isn't really a big problem anymore.

If you have to deal with snow, rain, gravel or dirt roads, or ice go with a FWD or AWD vehicle. It can handle the weather better. A FWD has all the weight (motor) on the driving wheels, which are also turning wheels, allowing for good traction when turning and accelerating. If you hit a gravel patch randomly, you are more likely to lose it in a RWD car.
 

Spade Lead

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Dags90 said:
OP explicitly says he plans to lease because the monthly payments are lower than financing. You get lower payments for 2-3 years, then you give the car back and hope you didn't drive more than 10,000 miles a year.
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Wow! Yous guys countries are fucking weird! If you tried renting cars like that over here you would get raped of your money!!
Here in America, and I assume Canada by extension, a Lease is barely less than a regular payment (at MOST $100 less a month), and at the end, you end up paying for going over your mileage allocation. My mother leased a 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS for three years, and at the end of the lease she ended up buying the car because purchasing the car was cheaper than paying off the Over-Mileage fees associated with ending the lease. Most Car companies only allocate about 10,000 miles, and the average American needs to drive 15,000 miles per year. And that varies by driver and location. I only put 16,000 miles per year on my Montero Sport while I lived in North Carolina, but I was underway on my ship LITERALLY 6 months a year, or more, depending on the needs of the service (Absolute MINIMUM time underway is 2 weeks of every month). Then, living in Los Angeles, I averaged around 30,000 miles per year, which was ONLY AVERAGE for that city. And of course, the newer your car, the more expensive insurance is. My 2 year old Truck (the Montero Sport) was $535 a month with ONE TICKET and an accident on my history as a 20 year old. My current car is averaging 800 miles per month just driving my girlfriend to work and her kids to school, and the occasional jaunt to the larger towns around us(that is an average of 9,600 miles per year, with a bare minimum of driving). My insurance is only $90 a month as a 28 year old man with no accidents and no tickets.

My recommendation as a car enthusiast:

Get a nice used car with a warranty (My Mitsubishi still had it's warranty, even though it was used with 36,000 miles) and smaller payments, (my truck was a $30,000 SUV, so maybe keep it smaller) and that will meet your needs. I had a 2 seat 4x4 truck before my current Cadillac, and thank God I didn't keep it when it grenaded (the piston rings basically disintegrated) because it had absolutely NO ROOM for my girlfriend and her kids, or our daughter (all of which came after I purchased the Cadillac). My newest car was a 1998 Ford Taurus, which was useful right up until my daughter was born, because the left side rear seatbelt didn't work. I could have fixed it, but I ended up needing the cash, and so I sold it. BECAUSE I HAD THAT OPTION!

Getting out of a lease is incredibly hard, so if you hit hard times, chances are better that you will default on it than get out of the lease. Whereas if you buy the car and can't afford it, you can always flip it to another dealer or to someone willing to take over the payments, and not have to worry about defaulting.

Get a car with your budget in mind, and your needs (At your age, a 2 seater just needs to not be an option, because even if you could afford it, you won't be able to take anyone with you when you go somewhere). I would recommend a four or five seater with two doors if you want a small car. My stepfather has a Mazda 3, and he seems to really like it, and I love Nissans (My next car is going to be a 240SX, but that is only because I will have The Cadillac for carrying the kids, and my Girlfriend already has her own car), but you need to consider what will be cheapest to work on if something goes wrong.

I had a cousin who had to keep putting new head gaskets in her car (For some reason she just kept blowing head gaskets and replacing them, whereas if it had been me, the second time it blew a gasket, I would have just replaced the motor...) and so she ended up scrapping the car because it was too much money to fix. She bought a Ford (I would NEVER recommend that) because she heard that was a more reliable car. It all depends on the car, and your luck. My family has a bad history with Fords, whereas my Mother had 3 Buicks that ran amazingly forever, and I have had 2 Cadillacs that never gave me serious problems. (The motor fell out of the first one because it was abused, and the new one has been pretty straight forward for a $250 project car, and has been running great since I fixed the issues that are inherent in a project car.) That said, get a car you can do the repairs on yourself if possible, because 1, you will appreciate it more, and 2, you will learn so much about cars if you do your own work. I love my beat up ass Cadillac more than anyone else would ever love a new car they just paid for because 1, I paid for it myself and it has been in my name since day 1, not the banks, 2, I have paid for the repairs myself, and 3, a lot of the work I have done myself. Also, I know just what the car needs for repairs just by driving it because I have been elbows deep in that car, and recognize the different ways she "Speaks" to me.

A knowledgeable Home Mechanic can listen to a car, and it will talk back, telling you everything you need to know.

(Example: My car came back from having brake lines and hoses replaced, and the Anti-Lock warning light was still on, indicating that something was wrong in the braking system. I did a quick Brake Check and realized that car was "Pushing" to the right when I braked, meaning that one of the left brakes wasn't grabbing (The difference between a Push and a Pull is subtle, but if you experience it, you will recognize it. The push is when the one side of the car is slowing down faster than the other in this case, making the car want to turn in the opposite direction. The pull is when the car tries to steer in the one direction despite the fact that you aren't trying to steer in that direction. My car pulls to the right because the suspension is damaged, and the car PUSHES to the left because the brakes are grabbing on one side but not the other). The car still stopped fairly quickly, so I assumed that since if it was a front brake not grabbing, stopping power would be considerably reduced, it had to be my left rear caliper. I pulled it off, and sure enough, it was frozen. I replaced the caliper myself, saving the cost of having a mechanic trouble shoot the braking system and then replace the caliper. Total cost of the project: $90 for a new caliper, $30 for new brake pads, and $20 to have a shop power bleed the brakes. Cost for a Mechanic to do all that: about $250.

Also, keep in mind that if a car is not under warranty, paying the dealership to do your repairs is retarded. The Cadillac dealer wants $600 a shock to repair the rear Air leveling suspension on my car, plus about $400 in shop time. NO ONE IN MY TOWN will touch this car's rear suspension. My option? Pay $200 for a conversion kit and put Non-Leveling shocks in the rear and front end myself, and save over $2,000. How hard is it? Fairly straightforward, and Incredibly Fucking easy for me, since I have experience doing that sort of thing. Could you do it? Absolutely!

Also, my Air Temperature Charge Sensor, which measures the temperature of the air going into the cylinders so the car knows how much fuel to add, went bad some time since the motor was put in. The car idled roughly and wanted to stall out when accelerating from a dead stop. It was a $15 part and a five minute repair. Only I couldn't find the fucking thing because Air Temperature sensors are NORMALLY in the intake, not the Heads, but alas, my car has it in the head. I found it with help from people on a Cadillac Forum, installed it in five minutes, and my gas mileage went up 5 MPGs on the spot. A mechanic would have needed at least $50 because they would have had to charge you for pulling the car into the garage, installing the part, the cost of the part itself, then testing to be sure the new part worked once it was installed (which involves an Ammeter and testing electrical connections). Also, your mechanic would hate you if you came to him for every piddly ass job that you should be able to do yourself. He doesn't make any money off a ten minute job, because he has YOUR car in the bay when idiots who need a new motor could have their car up on the lift instead. Also, Brake pads, oil and transmission fluid changes, and radiator flushes need to be done at regular intervals, depending on your car. My 'llac has a sensor that tells my instrument panel when to get an oil change. Yours won't, so knowing how often to change the oil is important to you saving money on the repairs and fuel mileage. Most cars don't need oil every 3,000 miles, but you MUST replace the oil at 1,000 original miles because there is special break-in oil in the motor when it comes out of the factory that will damage the engine if it is used for longer than the recommended mileage.

Also, DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO BREAK IN A BRAND NEW MOTOR? I will bet that 100% of the people who have gotten this far into my text wall did not know that there are special techniques used to break in a car motor, and that the type of fuel you use will determine how the motor runs for the rest of the car's life. Which technique you use and which gasoline you use will determine how much of your car's full potential will be reached upon being broken in. Lower quality gasolines are cheaper, but they don't burn as well, so they reduce your fuel efficiency, and decrease the life of your motor. Always use Top-Tier gasoline, even if you are only putting low-grade octane gasoline in your car.

I have had cars that ran best on mid grade, and cars that ran best on low grade, and of course the 'llac has a high compression motor, which requires Premium to run properly. I also found that certain gas stations use a different type of gas that makes the car run worse or better, depending on where I go. BP has always had great gas, but is it worth the ten cents per gallon extra? Nope. I have a gas station that offers 92 octane Ethanol fuel that makes my car run better than the gas I used to use that was 91 Octane without ethanol. And, because it has ethanol, it is actually 16 cents cheaper per gallon than the BP gas, which is the most expensive in town. (For those that don't know, BP is one of Brand Name stations that offer Top-Tier gasoline, and the only Brand Name gas station in town besides Philips' 66, which is the station I used to use.)

Also, if you get a low-displacement Turbo motor (A lot of car companies are doing this these days to improve fuel efficiency) things will get WAY more expensive, and you won't even realize it. First, you HAVE to run premium gasoline on a turbo, otherwise you will blow valves and heads due to premature detonation. Also, if you ever get in the mood to Rev the motor up, you will have to wait for the turbo to wind down before shutting the motor off, because the turbo generally (not a rule, but a basic rule of thumb) spins at roughly 3 to 6 times the RPM of the motor. If your car idles at 800 RPMS (A pretty basic idle speed), the turbo is spinning at about 3,200 RPM. If you rev the car to redline at 6,500 (Also a pretty standard top rev line for a motor) now your turbo is spinning at 19,500 RPM! If you shut the motor off without allowing the turbine to spin down (generally a two or three minute idle is recommended) and your car doesn't have a special oil pump for the turbo(Not usually a stock option on Non-Performance models), when you shut the motor off, your car will not be pumping oil to that expensive turbine that is now spinning at high speeds while unlubricated... And I promise you, a turbine is NOT covered under warranty.

TL;DR: If you don't know about cars, join a forum of vehicle enthusiasts that specialize in your car's brand. They will help you learn what you need to know about driving your car. I have a membership to a Cadillac Forum that has helped me save time and money on my Do-It-Yourself repairs. Also, it turns out that my Romp on the throttle and accelerate to speed rapidly, then cruise until you need to slow down driving technique that I figured out on my own is actually THE RECOMMENDED DRIVING STYLE FOR MY CAR! My car LIKES to be flogged. It suits me to drive this car as if I were a street racer... Oh yeah, I AM a street racer. Now I am off to own the face of some punk kids in their "Fast" Civics...

Also, whether you have a warranty or not, spend the money and get the Factory Service Manual for your car. Mine came in two options, the $90 set of three books, or a $15 CD for my computer. I got the books because I didn't want to take the laptop out to the car and get it all greasy. Now that I have a printer, it would have been better to get the CD.
 

Spade Lead

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yeti585 said:
You just reminded me of something critical, Tailor your purchase to your surroundings. If you Have a "good" climate with mostly tarmac roads, go RWD as it will be funner and can handle tarmac quite well. Another plus to RWD is little to no "torque-steer" (one driving wheel bites on takeoff, but the other doesn't so you start turning), even though this isn't really a big problem anymore.

If you have to deal with snow, rain, gravel or dirt roads, or ice go with a FWD or AWD vehicle. It can handle the weather better. A FWD has all the weight (motor) on the driving wheels, which are also turning wheels, allowing for good traction when turning and accelerating. If you hit a gravel patch randomly, you are more likely to lose it in a RWD car.
Okay, I lied, I have more advice for you:

This is also a great recommendation, but I caution you on one thing. A rear Wheel Drive vehicle has more fun implied in it, but it also has extra maintenance to worry about, too.

Also, I learned to drive in the snow and ice in a rear wheel drive with a Limited Slip Rear Differential, so I am still unsure of how to drive my Front Wheel Drive open Differential in the ice. I try and I try, but no matter how much I practice, my instincts are still geared towards stopping skids on ice with a rear wheel drive truck (My beloved Montero Sport, again). This is part of why it is so important to get the correct vehicle for your driving conditions. Front Wheel Drives (From now on let us refer to them as FF) are safer than a Rear Wheel Drive (generally called FR) because with a FF setup, the motor is centered over the drive wheels, ensuring that you have better traction because of the weight over the tires. The FR setup is best for drifting (Unless you have super-massive mega-balls, then drive 4WD) because of the ease of breaking the tires loose and and powering through a corner. there are no defects in a FR setup in California weather where the rain is not frequent and there is no snow, but in Canada, you really need something with All Wheel Drive, or at least an FF setup. The most important thing to remember with both FF and AWD is that no matter how much faster you can accelerate than an FR, you can't STOP any faster. You still suffer from the same limitations while turning and slowing that every other car has, regardless of how much downforce (Built in like a Porsche Carrera or added on like a Civic with a spoiler) you have, based on how much traction your tires grab. Your tires are your limiting factor in determining how well you turn or stop in ALL conditions.

The basics of cornering in a FF/AWD Car:

The car has 100% traction under perfect conditions (Brand new tires, dry road with no dirt or dust. basically, you will NEVER have this condition) at best, you can use 100% traction for turning or stopping. If you romp on the brakes, using 100% of your grip to stop, you cannot turn the car. If you turn the wheels, you will lock up the tires and skid, causing an accident.

You need to practice moderating your braking and turning traction. If you slam on the brakes and cut the wheels hard over in a turn, your ABS will kick on, causing your speed to slow, but not as fast as you were, and while changing direction. You need to decide, am I stopping, or steering around it, and act accordingly. If you want to steer around an obstacle, say a Dog, you should lightly press the brake while steering in the direction you want to go, say into the next lane. If you want to stop, hit the brakes as hard as you need to, then concentrate on keeping the car in a straight line. NEVER ROMP ON THE BRAKES AND MAKE A SUDDEN SHARP MOVEMENT WITH THE STEERING WHEEL, YOU WILL LOSE CONTROL! Sudden movements of the steering wheel cause the car to shift it's weight drastically, and your car is not designed for that. (If you don't have ABS, all that you need to know is how to modulate pressure to keep the wheels from locking up.)
 

vkola

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Jul 12, 2011
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I bought a Mazda2 last year, brand new and shiny. Got a pretty good price 28.000SEK in downpayment and a loan for 90.000SEK, paying back the loan with 1.500SEK each month and insurance is only 300SEK per month. Got the insurance pretty cheap since I have all insurance tied to the same company, that and I live in a pretty safe part of town and dont drive that much a year.

The Mazda is a real good car, gives you all you need in a car and more :)