It's not. The experiments designed to show this are structured to achieve these results and cherry-picked (e.g., by separating statistically men's and women's results into groups, averaging those groups, then comparing the averages, rather than looking at all data points and determining if two groupings emerge). These findings get play because they resonate with what most people think they know.
Girl Gamer's Opinion
- Thread starter Mudora
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I was maybe being a dick for the sake of being a dick.LordCraigus post=9.71383.721616 said:
I think a fairer statement would be to say that developers haven't shifted their demographic focus from a pre/early teen male market, where, yeah, heavy chested, scantily clad ladies are almost certain unit shifters. It's not, I think, something to do with said demographic being the dominant player base anymore - I'm pretty sure studies and surveys confirm it though I don't have links or references - but the developers seem to be slow to catch on. To be fair, their publishers will make their guesses based on past sales figures, so market change is slow to show effect... which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Could games use more dominant, 'realistic' female protaganists? Sure, why not. But dominant, 'realistic' protaganists are few and far between as it is, regardless of gender, bringing us into a whole other school of debate about why games are still seen as a juvenile past-time.
I play female avatars whenever a good character creation system is in place - WoW, Rock Band - not because I want to look at a cuter ass during my gametime, but because it's important to me that my avatar looks good. I spend more time playing 'dress up' in Rock Band than I do actually trying to progress through solo tour modes - but Expert is pretty hard you guys.
Objectivism in game characters is a big deal I guess, but I don't think there's any need to narrow it down to specific sexes. This thread is mostly going on about Soul Caliber 4 but - while I haven't played this particular installment in the series - I'm fairly sure the character development, physically or otherwise, wasn't the main drawing factor of the game anyway.
Referencing the archetypes of female supporting characters... those archetypes are equally as prevailant in male supporting roles. There's the testosterone amped tough guy, (usually) young, probably sibling who always gets into predicaments and needs rescuing, or good old, best friend who never fails to perk up morale in the worst of times.
Fairytales have the hero rescuing the damsel in distress. The earliest video games had you saving the princess in the castle. There's a tremendous amount of gender subjectivity there to begin with, ingrained into cultural consciousness. Once we start to move beyond that I think we can worry then about more superficial aspects.
I lost focus a bit there, so I apologise if that's tough to read.
TL
R yeah most guys seem to love big boobs, not me though. Not me.
I don't know really, I mean most male video game characters are portrayed really unrealistically compared to real men as well so it's not like it's just the women - it just happens more often and more noticeably with women.
The truth is men generally like half naked women, I don't blame them really I do too. I don't know why you'd feel self conscious about your looks because of a video game character, you should realize they're supposed to be the idealized female and you know they're not real. If anything I feel a lot worse about myself when I see a real woman that's over the top attractive because that's a real person and how they really look.
The truth is men generally like half naked women, I don't blame them really I do too. I don't know why you'd feel self conscious about your looks because of a video game character, you should realize they're supposed to be the idealized female and you know they're not real. If anything I feel a lot worse about myself when I see a real woman that's over the top attractive because that's a real person and how they really look.
FWIW, I also this this is exactly the point.
I don't think the issue at hand is whether or not videogames have exaggerated depictions of both masculinity and femininity. The issue is who these depictions are servicing. And I think Mudora's complaint is that all these games are made with a male player in mind.
Sure, many male characters in videogames have completely unrealistic physical statures that only a few of us, such as myself, will ever achieve. However we live vicariously through these images - they provide escapism from the doldrums of our banal physical realities and forms of dress.
Female characters don't provide this escapism for women, they provide men with the escapist belief they can have or control a highly sexualized attractive woman. Let's not fool ourselves, female characters in videogames largely exist for the voyeuristic pleasures of male players. The ways in which female videogame players are enhanced and portrayed play up their status as sex objects.
Maybe some female gamers are fine with that, but there seem to be a growing chorus of voices asking for female videogame characters that portray the fantasies of a woman.
To suggest an answer to the obvious follow-up, my wife and her college friends all viewed Dana Scully as the person they'd like to be when they grow up. Scully is pretty, does act like a damsel in distress in a good number of X-files episodes, and sexual tension between her and Mulder is a considerable element in the series. That is, the point is not (as was assumed by previous posters) to have female characters that avoid sex, aren't pretty, or aren't vulnerable; it's that their function in the game is not to provide eye candy of the dom or submissive sort. Watching..was it Clare Redfield in RE: CV? was a similar experience for her. Watching Ivy in SC, not so much.
I don't think the issue at hand is whether or not videogames have exaggerated depictions of both masculinity and femininity. The issue is who these depictions are servicing. And I think Mudora's complaint is that all these games are made with a male player in mind.
Sure, many male characters in videogames have completely unrealistic physical statures that only a few of us, such as myself, will ever achieve. However we live vicariously through these images - they provide escapism from the doldrums of our banal physical realities and forms of dress.
Female characters don't provide this escapism for women, they provide men with the escapist belief they can have or control a highly sexualized attractive woman. Let's not fool ourselves, female characters in videogames largely exist for the voyeuristic pleasures of male players. The ways in which female videogame players are enhanced and portrayed play up their status as sex objects.
Maybe some female gamers are fine with that, but there seem to be a growing chorus of voices asking for female videogame characters that portray the fantasies of a woman.
To suggest an answer to the obvious follow-up, my wife and her college friends all viewed Dana Scully as the person they'd like to be when they grow up. Scully is pretty, does act like a damsel in distress in a good number of X-files episodes, and sexual tension between her and Mulder is a considerable element in the series. That is, the point is not (as was assumed by previous posters) to have female characters that avoid sex, aren't pretty, or aren't vulnerable; it's that their function in the game is not to provide eye candy of the dom or submissive sort. Watching..was it Clare Redfield in RE: CV? was a similar experience for her. Watching Ivy in SC, not so much.
The reason for that is because we're all aware of it as a dominant consensus.HSIAMetalKing post=9.71383.721497 said:
Because Women seem to be a minority (I know the statistics, but they can easily lie) I think it's justifiably fair that they may complain as long as only non-descriptive nouns are called Dipsticks or Mysonginistic.
So...if the muscle heads are what males fantasise as being.
What kind of woman does a female gamer fantasise as being? Clearly not the over-sexed image that has been established is -not- this and is purely for male stimulation. So, what then?
Someone like Alyx Vance? Zoe Castillo? Peach? Deirdre Skye?
What kind of woman does a female gamer fantasise as being? Clearly not the over-sexed image that has been established is -not- this and is purely for male stimulation. So, what then?
Someone like Alyx Vance? Zoe Castillo? Peach? Deirdre Skye?
If I had to guess I would say a strong,cool,independent women with a slim model's body but not anorexic.GothmogII post=9.71383.721714 said:
I have a fair idea that a female orientated game would be like a bishonen harem anime.
I think ultimately, it comes down to this: it sells... all those disproportionate women cause higher sales... so there's little to do about it I guess.
You're forgetting the most important part. Brains and Gender are NOT 1:1. Gender is all or nothing, you can either be male, or female. Brains are a entirely different thing, they're more scalable. As a male, you can have 100% male brains, 50-50, 70-30, or even 100% female brains (you'll probably at one point or another want to change your gender then). Your mom might have some part masculine brain. I know my mom does, I guess many (former) feminists have.
Yes--they are made to be binaries by the assumption that, e.g. a "male" is a human with a particular size glans, thus a person not possessing such a glans, or with additional structures, is not "male." The categories are normalized, and used to construct non-compliant data points as "abnormal." The pre-existing categories established, then folks (like many of these posters) can blithely talk about "normal" or "natural" gender categories, never having a shadow of a clue that they themselves manufacture the categories they assume reflect nature. Maddening, really.Alex_P post=9.71383.721766 said:
Personaly i welcome female gamers, female developers and female lead characters that arnt completely over the top and completely fantasy. it would bring a whole new aspect to gameing and plots many a game would just be a pretty hack and slash, i prefer a great sory and characters that i can connect with over the game, also it would make a nice ice breaker in conversations because many og the girls i know are ashamed of there gaming habbits because they fear being labeled geeky or uncool i would love more women getting in to games it would make the gaming community a much better place.
I really don't have anything to add to this argument, but I will anyway.
Get over it.
I'm sick of "female" gamers (if that is what you are...) complaining about how some chick looks in a video game. Sure, there's a limit to how "sexualized" a woman in a video game can be, but most of the time they're just fine to me (both in breast size and feminity).
Besides, most of the stereotypes you see are from Japanese games, there arn't nearly as much in Western games that I've seen aside from a few exceptions.
I just live with it, both men and woman are stereotyped in a positive, yes positive, way. Men want to be fit and muscular, woman want to have a nice cleavage and attract mates (conciously or subconciously) but some woman in video games are just a bit too "busty" per sey.
Get over it.
I'm sick of "female" gamers (if that is what you are...) complaining about how some chick looks in a video game. Sure, there's a limit to how "sexualized" a woman in a video game can be, but most of the time they're just fine to me (both in breast size and feminity).
Besides, most of the stereotypes you see are from Japanese games, there arn't nearly as much in Western games that I've seen aside from a few exceptions.
I just live with it, both men and woman are stereotyped in a positive, yes positive, way. Men want to be fit and muscular, woman want to have a nice cleavage and attract mates (conciously or subconciously) but some woman in video games are just a bit too "busty" per sey.