Good noble aliens versus evil monstrous humans, can it work?

Recommended Videos

Gitsnik

New member
May 13, 2008
798
0
0
The Rogue Wolf said:
I was going to mention Starship Troopers, but you pretty well beat me to that punch.

The misanthrope in me says "Give it a shot!", but the realist wonders just how many people saw the satire in that movie ("We invaded Bugworld! They fought back! Now we gotta kill them all!") and weren't blinded by the pyrotechnics and special effects. Seriously, I actually got into an argument with a friend once about ST; he was adamant that "Humans are always the good guys" and said that the insects had to die in order to make room for human expansion.

Unless it's an extremely well-crafted vision, I don't see such an effort being greeted with much excitement.
Read the book. It paints a fairly different picture. Also, watch the 3rd ST movie (Marauder?), they paint the good-human-bad-bug thing in that quite glaringly.

Like Anarchemitis said, this isn't a story well explored in games. The best you will do is in larger games (I'm thinking playing the Horde in WoW, Orcs in DoW etc.) that don't really focus on the single player aspect. Also FireWarrior if you can get it.

Back to Original Post:
If you really want to explore the humans are evil side of things, I'm going to have to point you towards table games like D&D - play as something lawful good of non-human or elvish decent. Do it against an empire that is (just happens to be) built in a style/mind-set of America or colonial Britain. With a good DM you could get some really interesting situations coming out.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day, we are humans and we will as a whole try to conform and defend each other. And honestly, I've read/seen enough Sci-Fi where the alien race screws us over to never be the one to trust any of them.

Maybe you're an alien trying to convince us that we're not as awesome as we actually are. GET AWAY!
 

Jamash

Top Todger
Jun 25, 2008
3,638
0
0
Warhammer 40K: Fire Warrior is a bit like that.

In that game you control a heroic alien (Fire Warrior) fighting against the 'evil', oppressive 'Imperium of Man'.

Although it can be argued that the Tau are hardly saints (but then, who is in the 40K universe?), even though they're fighting for the "Greater Good", but that's more in the fluff of WH40K and not really in the context of the game.
 

Samurai Goomba

New member
Oct 7, 2008
3,679
0
0
Hmm... Wonder where this topic idea came from? Could it possibly have been spawned by a video created by a certain reviewer?

Aside from that, I like the idea of controlling a completely inhuman race of aliens in a battle against the humans, sort of like Ender's Game in reverse.
 

whyarecarrots

New member
Nov 19, 2008
417
0
0
There is a third option as well as good human/evil alien and evil human/good alien approach: the Warhammer 40k approach: present everyone as self-interested bastards willing to do whatever it takes to further their own aims.

No matter which side you look at it from, there are no 'good-guys' in the traditional sense, which to me makes it considerably more interesting:

The Imperium of Man in 40k could certainly be construed as the 'hero', simply because the great majority of fiction and fluff is written from their viewpoint and the fact that they're human makes them easier to empathise with. However, when you actually step back and look at the Imperium, it is a vicious, xenophobic, repressive regime capable of committing atrocities that seem far more in the vein of various historical dictators (this is something I feel we should tell all the 12 year olds playing Space Marines because they are 'teh go0d guiz'...)
Then, having looked at the Imperium from our perspective, looking at it from the perspective of the Imperium itself, much of what they do can be seen as reasonable and necessary: when you consider the threats faced by the Imperium from all sides by foes with no grasp of the idea of mercy, the xenophobia and brutality of the regime becomes a necessity for the survival of humanity.

The same holds true for the other races that could be viewed as 'good':

Eldar: Arrogant, cruel and utterly self-interested. Whilst they share a common enemy with the Imperium in the forces of Chaos, they are only interested in their survival and don't care how many humans have to die to save an Eldar life.

Tau: Space Communists. 'Nuff said really....

I personally find this lack of any ideological 'good' quite refreshing, and I think it's something that hasn't really been made enough of in the Dawn of War games, where, with the possible exception of the Eldar in places, very little has been made of the utterly pragmatic self-interest that defines all the factions, especially the pseudo-religious zealotry of the Space Marines, who seem to be portrayed in an almost exclusively positive light.

Anyway, I suppose the whole point of this thoroughly long winded post (Im procrastinating...) is to agree with the OP and say that I think that any game that challenges the normal perceptions of good and evil in games would be a very positive development.

edit:
Jamash said:
Warhammer 40K: Fire Warrior is a bit like that.

In that game you control a heroic alien (Fire Warrior) fighting against the 'evil', oppressive 'Imperium of Man'.

Although it can be argued that the Tau are hardly saints (but then, who is in the 40K universe?), even though they're fighting for the "Greater Good", but that's more in the fluff of WH40K and not really in the context of the game.
Ahh, don't know much about Fire Warrior, hence why I haven't talked about it above, but you make a good point.

On the subject of the Greater Good: for the Tau the Greater Good is the greater good of the Tau 'Empire' (never understood why they're calling it an empire now...): the ethereals don't care what it takes to work towards the greater good, or indeed what sacrifices are necessary. I believe that there is fluff of Tau colonists slaughtering the inhabitants of conquered Imperial worlds that refused to accept the Greater Good.
 

dadanman

New member
Feb 14, 2009
10
0
0
Has everyone forgotten ET? I mean it's no action flick but it has the similar idea.

Although I disagree on the fact that this is an original idea. People have been painting the human race as an evil pack of wolf wolves for a while, just usually human on human so that the audience has something to identify with.

I think it'd work if the protagonist had something that people could identity with, like maybe fighting for their own alien religion or put a WW2 holocost spin on it.
 

seitori

New member
Feb 12, 2008
67
0
0
Alpha Centauri: Alien Crossfire kinda did this too. Not to mention E.T.

Edit: Great minds!
 

whyarecarrots

New member
Nov 19, 2008
417
0
0
Samurai Goomba said:
Hmm... Wonder where this topic idea came from? Could it possibly have been spawned by a video created by a certain reviewer?
Well at least he's causing an interesting discussion this time, as opposed to merely a large number of ripped of jokes...
 

Iron Mal

New member
Jun 4, 2008
2,749
0
0
Unless it is backed up with some deep background story and exposition (like Fire Warrior was) then I don't think that the idea of 'Noble aliens against wicked humans' would work.

In Fire Warrior it was made very clear that the Tau were more 'human' than mankind was (everything about them looks warm and peaceful, they fight in self defence and for the 'Greater Good'), the only problem with this is that you've essentially made your heroic, human protaganist with a different skin colour and a missing nose rather than something that is truely alien.

The ideas of heroism and nobility are very much human ideals, in other words, trying to impose them on a non-human character would suddenly humanise them while stripping them from human characters will make them seem unusually alien or cold (even by 'evil, maniacal bastard' standards).

Finally, 'history is written by the winners'. We connect with ourselves (humans) more than we do with a non-human character so we might as well go with it, even if we do have to genocide a race or two along the way we can ultimately justify it as being a nessercary action to ensure our survival, if we were to have alien protaganists then they would have to do the same thing altough we would be less inclined to sympathise with them simply because...well...because they're different, we just wouldn't understand their motives as easily as our own.
 

Dangerious P. Cats

New member
Dec 21, 2008
204
0
0
Well it's worked with RTS games. People have the option of playing as a non-human race and often do.

Personally I always liked the idea of having a spotanious invasion of earth where the players go through all the horrors of war and such like only to discover that the aliens they feared and hated were humans all along.

You could have a strong subtext of War having bastards on all sides in a game. Have the character go through the game witnessing their allies killing civilians and wounded enemies. Possibly even have a moral choice section where a group of friendly soldiers want to kill everyone in a hospital because of the enemies being helped there, and you have to choose to stop them (by fighting them) or letting it happen and having the soldiers help you.
 

HypnotizedCOW

New member
Jun 11, 2008
23
0
0
It would be interesting, but all the idiots out there would explode from the confusion of the "disgusting aliens" being the good guys.
 

rapidoud

New member
Feb 1, 2008
547
0
0
well humans would be scared, and if the aliens did something that looked threatening (ie. put a big mothership over our capital, yes im talking to YOU INDEPENDANCE DAY), I think we may panic and shoot them.

And Starship Troopers? They're bugs, and I swear it said they sent asteroids at us first.
And btw if you want to see evil humans go play Mass Effect, I swear every person i've met has wanted to shoot the ambassador of humans... lol.

And btw 2 things
1. How can you tell who is a woman on the covenant?
2. In MGS4 Liquid's FROGs were all women, so how do you feel about killing women in combat?
 

GloatingSwine

New member
Nov 10, 2007
4,544
0
0
Iron Mal said:
In Fire Warrior it was made very clear that the Tau were more 'human' than mankind was (everything about them looks warm and peaceful, they fight in self defence and for the 'Greater Good'), the only problem with this is that you've essentially made your heroic, human protaganist with a different skin colour and a missing nose rather than something that is truely alien.
And, of course, the 'Greater Good' involves sterilising planetary populations, a caste system based on pheromonal mind control, and reeducation camps.

Because this is 40k dammit, and you Can Not Have Nice Things.

The Humans were the least likeable race in Mass Effect.
The thing about Mass Effect was that whilst Humans were bastards, you could by and large find bastards sprinkled around all the races. Except possibly the Elcor.
 

Rhayn

Free of All Weakness
Jul 8, 2008
782
0
0
I was going to comment on the Mass Effect humans too. But hey, I would expect nothing less from our species.
 

Ultrajoe

Omnichairman
Apr 24, 2008
4,719
0
0
No.

To make an alien race noble and good, they must conform to our standards of 'good' and 'noble', which means humanizing them to display very human aspects of honor and justice. By the same token, to make humans evil you need to de-humanize them.

Hence, any attempt to pit bad humans against good aliens just equates to 'Odd looking humans fight very human looking aliens'. We've had it, it sucked balls. Convention is convention for a reason.

Good idea though, but one that is by it's nature self-contradictory.