Good unarmed/close quarter open world combat that isn't Batman

[baddude1337]

Sleeping Dogs immediately springs to mind for melee-based, third-person open world combat - in fact I'd probably say the combat system is better, as you can get through most fights in Arkham by spamming the counter button. Sleeping Dogs' combat system is a bit more involved, and you can use the environment to your advantage more.

Seconded. It's got a great melee system.

Other's that spring to mind are are only loosely similar:

Saints Row 2 + 3 - had some melee finishiers I think

True Crime LA + True Crime NY - Perhaps not totally "good" games, but they have good melee systems. I remember NY you could eve buy different fighting styles.

 

[StriderShinryu]

As others have already said, Arkham combat is fine for the flashy powerful feeling but it's actually fairly poor as a standard combat system. Ninja Gaiden is pretty much the king of 3rd person combat focused action games (plus, if you know what you're doing, it can be almost as flashy as Arkham anyway), and the Souls games are much better if you want real weighty tactical feeling combat.

Sleeping Dogs immediately springs to mind for melee-based, third-person open world combat - in fact I'd probably say the combat system is better, as you can get through most fights in Arkham by spamming the counter button. Sleeping Dogs' combat system is a bit more involved, and you can use the environment to your advantage more.

Yeah, if you like Arkham style combat and want to see it in a GTA/Saint's Row style open world game then Sleeping Dogs really is a great choice. It's also just straight up better than GTA and Saint's Row in some other ways too.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Anyway, I'm going Mount and Blade Warband. Ya it's not open world in the sense that you see your character walking everywhere, but you do move around the map in an open world and getting into a battle will throw you into an open area that fits the location of the map.

The game probably has the best melee combat I've ever played. You have to move your mouse in the direction you want to attack (and block if you're not using auto-block -which you shouldn't if you ever want to be competent at multiplayer). Momentum is hugely important when it comes to landing a decent blow. Also, the type of weapon you use has a significant impact on how you might play. Taking a pike will mean you want to be at the front line, ready to annihilate the cavalry charge (if the AI chooses to use one). If you use a huge two-handed weapon, you can expect to often one shot guys, but you'll need to constantly be moving for fear of getting mowed down by archers. If you go sword and shield, you can expect to well in sieges since you'll be able to block the constant hail of arrows. That's just a handful of the foot soldier scenarios. There's still mounted combat too!

Anway, the combat system definitely takes some getting used to since it'll probably be unlike anything you've ever played. However, once you get the hang of it, you'll find it exhilarating, challenging, and quite strategic. Then, once you've mastered the system to the point where you can easily take on multiple enemies at a time, jump online and get absolutely shit on. It's there that the depth of the system truly shines. Still, it's great in single player too if that's all you're looking for. I spent 300 hours on this game (a lot of this is with some amazing mods) before even touching multiplayer.

The graphics may turn you off, though, to be fair, you don't really notice when you're leading a 50 man cavalry charge into the enemy's flank, trampling and skewering half of their army. For me, it's pretty much the greatest feeling in gaming.

 

[Neverhoodian]

They're not open world, but Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy have great lightsaber combat. No other game made me feel like a Jedi quite like those titles did. Swings are dictated by a variety of factors, including movement, strafing, jumping, crouching, rolling, and even separate stances. Granted you'll be fighting cannon fodder troopers most of the time in single player, but the lightsaber duels are amazing. There's a number of custom levels like Ladder [http://jediknight3.filefront.com/file/The_Ladder_Map_Only_No_Music;2199] that allows players to indulge in full-on saber combat. Multiplayer included Duel mode for one-on-one PvP, but the community has dwindled over the years.

 

[limmers]

Also, while it's not an open-world game, I think you may enjoy the combat in Enslaved: Odyssey To The West - it's got that Arkham-esque simple, but impactful approach to combat going on, with lots of cinematic close-ups for killing blows, and you often find yourself methodically clearing areas of enemies while trying not to get into mass brawls.

Another open world game melee combat system that I think deserves a passing mention is Fable II's - as far as I remember, you only ever used one button for your sword swings, but you could vary the timing and rhythm of your combos very organically depending on how long you held the button between attacks. It's been a while since I've played it, but the sword combat does stick out in my memory as one of the few things that game got right...

 

[J Tyran]

Sleeping Dogs immediately springs to mind for melee-based, third-person open world combat - in fact I'd probably say the combat system is better, as you can get through most fights in Arkham by spamming the counter button. Sleeping Dogs' combat system is a bit more involved, and you can use the environment to your advantage more.

Was going to jump in with Sleeping Dogs too, Grand Theft Auto style open world with Kung Fu? Whats not to love about that?

 

[Thorn14]

Devil May Cry 3, Devil May Cry 4, Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2, Ninja Gaiden Black.

While fun, those games make the "Mash X and Y to counter sometimes" games (Batman, Mordor, Sleeping Dogs) feel like child's play.

Unfortunately, I passed on Shadows of Mordor because I felt the "untouchable" combat model was a poor design choice as it hindered the nemesis system they have in the game. To take advantage of the Nemesis system, the combat shouldn't be the easy 2 button combat model on the market. I felt this combat robbed a lot of potential from the game, so much so that it deterred me from buying it as I probably wouldn't gain a Nemesis unless I chose to have one... which seems contradictory to what a nemesis is. When is the last time you sought out someone to try to ruin your life? Marriage jokes aside, probably never. Why not just chop off their head?

Did you ever get around to playing it? Because some of the orcs get really tough to beat. Some of them have so many immunities, that you can't just autopilot kill them with your favorite combo, but have to try and manipulate the fight to weaken them, which is tricky when 50+ other orcs are smacking you on the head. I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be, to find a tough orc. Yes, sometimes, it's really easy to drop an orc without much effort, but then you run into the guy who is just Immune to all your lulz, and tosses you around like a puppy.

Once you get the power of mind control the game becomes a joke no matter how many numbers are thrown at you. And being able to counter almost anything (or easily dodge anything you cant counter) with massive wind up attacks makes the game extremely difficult, especially to gamers like me who toughened our skin with DMC1-4

I'm like that guy, I only got a nemesis because I thought he looked cool so I let him get a kill on me.

 

[omega 616]

Nope, think it's one of the worst combat systems invented.... Hammer a button until a button prompt pops up to counter a guy attacking you, then continue to hammer the attack button.

It's very "my first fighter/action adventure".

I think the game you're looking for is shadow of mordor ... was built as a batman game but got changed to lotr cosmetic. Got the same combat but also has that kick ass nemesis system

 

[Squilookle]

Yeah, another vote for Mount and Blade Warband. Close quarter combat: I thought I knew ye. That was before Warband opened my eyes, and it opened them wide.

 

[Scow2]

I actually hate the combat to Mount+Blade. It fails to be intuitive

 

[Glongpre]

Like Batman?

I immediately thought of Mortal Kombat Shaolin Monks.

Spoiler: Woop

Guy playing is pretty brutal, but it uses the same directional combat that Arkham does.

THEY NEED TO MAKE ANOTHER SHAOLIN MONKS GAME!!! Come on netherrealm. It would be awesomeeeeeee. Mortal Kombat is suited so well to this kind of game.

Spoiler

 

[stroopwafel]

I think Shadows of Mordor actually has the best form of freeflow combat. Yeah, it looks 'cinematic' but I think people underestimate how difficult to implement this is in a manner you don't feel detached from the action. Mordor actually also has all kind of incentives to 'connect' every button push, which makes it all the more engaging. Arkham(obviously) and Sleeping Dogs are really the only other games that get freeflow combat right. Asses Creed for example, even after so many games, still completely fails at it. You always feel like there is input delay and everything is just so clumsy and imprecise to the point of random.

Freeflow combat done well is really, really fun. Yeah it might not be the most difficult once you get the hang of it but not every game needs to be 'Dark Souls hard'.

 

[Rozalia1]

Seriously all these posts and no mention of Yakuza? For shame.
Arkham/AC games are very easy and you feel unstopable just like Yakuza but its also mostly a dull affair. In Yakuza you're a god among men who absolutely brutalizes all those poor jobber gangbangers/yakuza/triads/agents/terrorists.
You almost feel sorry for any of the poor sods paid to try to stop Kazuma Kiryu.

 

[ExDeath730]

I think the combat in the Batman games is only really good in games about Batman, or characters of similar ability.

The combat is meant to make you feel powerful, feel like Batman. The combat is really really easy until you're in a big group of enemies who all have weapons. Why? Because of course Batman can beat the shit out of some unarmed thugs in hand to hand combat, he's the goddamn Batman. Similar systems don't really work with other characters though because they feel too powerful for their world.

Take for example Assassin's Creed. It has a similar combat system to the batman games, just a bit slower, but I've always hated it. In the first game you're outright told that Altair isn't a great fighter and that his skill set is all about hit and run tactics, taking his target by surprise, killing them, and then running away from the guards. Everyone in the game tells you to avoid direct confrontations with guards because you'll die. The problem is, the combat is so easy that Altair is basically an invincible god of death. You can easily fight 20 guards at once without taking a single hit, and it completely changes the way the game was meant to be played as well as the player's perception of the protagonist.

The Batman combat system is good for games where your character is meant to feel very powerful and in control, like Batman, but it's not so great in games where the player character is supposed to be a normal person.

Just one correction about Assassin's Creed, at the start of the game, Altair is bad at combat, and you do need to run away from the guards or you will get slaughtered, specially when a knight appears. The combat just get easier when he learns to counter, because at the start he can only block (and the enemies will circle you). The combat in that game, evolves just like the main character, it's a natural progression, because at the midle of the game you're supposed to be a super badass. Another thing is that the combat is just comparable to the Arkham games at AC3 onwards, the counter in the first one and the Ezio trilogy was a two button manouver without a screen prompt, you had to actually pay attention to the enemies for the right moment (and it sucked against the dagger ones).

About the thread, i guess most people have said some good ones already, but Devil May Cry and Metal Gear Rising are some good ones that you should check out.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I think the combat in the Batman games is only really good in games about Batman, or characters of similar ability.

The combat is meant to make you feel powerful, feel like Batman. The combat is really really easy until you're in a big group of enemies who all have weapons. Why? Because of course Batman can beat the shit out of some unarmed thugs in hand to hand combat, he's the goddamn Batman. Similar systems don't really work with other characters though because they feel too powerful for their world.

Take for example Assassin's Creed. It has a similar combat system to the batman games, just a bit slower, but I've always hated it. In the first game you're outright told that Altair isn't a great fighter and that his skill set is all about hit and run tactics, taking his target by surprise, killing them, and then running away from the guards. Everyone in the game tells you to avoid direct confrontations with guards because you'll die. The problem is, the combat is so easy that Altair is basically an invincible god of death. You can easily fight 20 guards at once without taking a single hit, and it completely changes the way the game was meant to be played as well as the player's perception of the protagonist.

The Batman combat system is good for games where your character is meant to feel very powerful and in control, like Batman, but it's not so great in games where the player character is supposed to be a normal person.

Just one correction about Assassin's Creed, at the start of the game, Altair is bad at combat, and you do need to run away from the guards or you will get slaughtered, specially when a knight appears. The combat just get easier when he learns to counter, because at the start he can only block (and the enemies will circle you). The combat in that game, evolves just like the main character, it's a natural progression, because at the midle of the game you're supposed to be a super badass. Another thing is that the combat is just comparable to the Arkham games at AC3 onwards, the counter in the first one and the Ezio trilogy was a two button manouver without a screen prompt, you had to actually pay attention to the enemies for the right moment (and it sucked against the dagger ones).

If I remember correctly (and I may not because it has been many years since I played the first Assassin's Creed), Altair starts the story off as being one of the top ranked assassins in the brotherhood and after he acts like a shit a few too many times and fucks up, his rank is taken away and he's told to go see the assassin leaders in every city for retraining, and he is not allowed to use any of his skills until they are retaught to him.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Sleeping Dogs has such a satisfying combat, it's ridiculous. I grew up on a lot of martial arts movies, especially Chinese cop movies from the 70's. My dad is a big fan of those for some unknown reason. He's never even been to China. But yeah, when Sleeping Dogs came out I was so excited to find out that the combat system is actually a lot more satisfying to me than Batman's free flow combat because as fluid as it is, it doesn't offer a lot of challenge or variety, and Batman practically flies around. Sleeping Dogs feels a lot more realistic.

 

[ExDeath730]

If I remember correctly (and I may not because it has been many years since I played the first Assassin's Creed), Altair starts the story off as being one of the top ranked assassins in the brotherhood and after he acts like a shit a few too many times and fucks up, his rank is taken away and he's told to go see the assassin leaders in every city for retraining, and he is not allowed to use any of his skills until they are retaught to him.

The specifics about his demotion i don't remember as well, not gonna lie, but a lot of the Assassin leaders on the cities like to point ou that Altair is the Master favorite pupil, they do this in a way to make the point that maybe his praise and what he was at the start of the game, wasn't because he was good, but because of favoritism. They're actually right, since Altair starts the game as an arrogant asshole who just fucks up and don't take responsibility for his actions. While i consider AC 1 to be a weak game (fun but shallow gameplay and really repetitive), it's one of the games that i mostly liked the character progression, because it's really well done and natural, at the end of the game, you can actually like Altair, since he isn't a static character or a perfect one.

 

[laggyteabag]

Do I like the Arkham combat? Yes.

Should more games use it? Yes, at least if it can be done well.

Did Shadow of Mordor do it justice? Kinda. SoM did the equivalent of looking over Rocksteady's shoulder, and copying all of their work, but forgot the whole "difficulty" part. Mordor was a game about killing Orcs, but it did very little to improve on the system that the Arkham games had, and what I found was that a game based entirely around the Arkham combat does not work. The reason why I felt that Arkham did well, and SoM did not was because the Arkham games had a change of pace every now and again with the stealth sections, and the game actually had a threat in the form of the gun users. Sure, SoM has the boss Orcs, but they were either very easy to kill, or cheese-difficulty bullet sponges. SoM needs an enemy that is the equivalent of the guy with the gun; ie, the enemy that is the priority target, and the one that you need to plan to take out, otherwise he will just stomp all over you if you ignore him.

I don't mind iterating what works in a game, but I would really like it if someone tried to 1-up the Arkham games. Rocksteady cannot be the king forever, and I am interested to see what topples them.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

A new Final Fight would be nice. I liked streetwise until those mutants showed up. It's a ps2, xbox game with a hubworld including mini quests, seperate main levels, bossfights, weapons, combos and an upgrade system.

 

[Fox12]

I couldn't stand the combat in Arkham. I was a huge fan of stealth combat, laying traps, and avoiding enemies, but the actual combat in that game bored me to tears. I didn't mind it, though, because I relied almost entirely on the aforementioned stealth tactics.

I'm trying Dragons Dogma right now, and it's fun. There are different skill sets for weapons, and you can customize your attack setup. It's got some weird design decisions, there are large section lifted from better games that aren't implemented as well, and the fighting can sometimes be repetitive, but it lets me play as Guts and Casca, so it's the greatest game ever made. 10/10.