Good Villains Make Good Stories

[RedDeadFred]

I agree. This is why (for me at least) The Avengers, while being a good movie with lots of fun, doesn't really hold a candle to The Dark Knight. Loki really wasn't a very deep or entertaining character and the actual story of the movie suffered for it.
The Dark Knight had not one, but two extremely compelling villains. The Joker really was a truly insane mastermind with a goal that was much more complex than simply wanting to rule the world/city. Harvey Dent's goals weren't all that complex (he just wants revenge) but his the build up of his character and then the subsequent fall was one of the best parts of the movie.

TLDR: Ya better villains make for a better story which often leads to a better movie.

 

[Hal10k]

Many games without clear villains have been really good. Take the Half Life series. Sure, the "main baddie" was Dr. Breen in HL2 and Ep.1, but he was more of a puppet than a villain.

I think whether or not he was technically in charge of the antagonistic forces is a moot point. He was there to serve as a focal point for them, the "face" of the operation, if you will. From a literary standpoint, he's certainly the main antagonist of HL2.

 

[BENZOOKA]

Books:
Sauron (Lord of The Rings)

Movies:
Bill (Kill Bill)

Series:
Stringer Bell (The Wire)

 

[Emiscary]

I agree. This is why (for me at least) The Avengers, while being a good movie with lots of fun, doesn't really hold a candle to The Dark Knight. Loki really wasn't a very deep or entertaining character and the actual story of the movie suffered for it.
The Dark Knight had not one, but two extremely compelling villains. The Joker really was a truly insane mastermind with a goal that was much more complex than simply wanting to rule the world/city. Harvey Dent's goals weren't all that complex (he just wants revenge) but his the build up of his character and then the subsequent fall was one of the best parts of the movie.

TLDR: Ya better villains make for a better story which often leads to a better movie.

Well there's Thanos to make up for it in the sequel. Here's hoping Mr Whedon's villain writing skills are up to snuff.

Also maybe it's just because I hate being manipulated, but I always felt the main antagonist of Half-Life was the G-Man.

 

[Terrible Opinions]

And to build on my earlier post (the "this is why villains are usually more interesting), here are some counter-examples: main characters who among the most interesting parts of their stories, largely because they take a more active role in driving the plot forward than anyone else.

Taxi Driver's Travis Bickle. Obvious choice, and perhaps the best example of what I was talking about earlier.

The Wrestler's Randy the Ram. Once again, he drives things forward.

Scarface's Tony Montana is easily the most interesting character in the film, despite being the perspective character for 99% of it.

Despite his travelling menagerie of awesome and unique characters, Planescape Torment's Nameless One stands out as one of the best parts of the game. Maybe Ravel can challenge him on that bit. Maybe.

The Dark Knight Returns' Batman does not have the same problem as his incarnation in the film it helped inspire. Batman appears to upset the established order, and his opponents must react to him.

 

[Emiscary]

It's funny the the majority of the counter examples listed (Tony, The Nameless One...) have decidedly unheroic characteristics...

 

[V8 Ninja]

I completely agree with the OP: some of the most memorable games I've played have had fantastic villains. The Portal series and Batman Arkham X series instantly spring to mind, but the enemies from Amnesia are a high contender as well since they're the culmination of everything we find disturbing about imperfect humanity.

 

[OctoH]

Glados. Also, Saren was pretty well-written too.

 

[Joshimodo]

Saren was a SUPERB villain in ME1.


Andrew Ryan was also good.


I had one of my favourites in my head, but I just forgot who it was as I scrolled down the page. Oh well.

 

[omicron1]

Hmm... good villains are hard in games, I think, because games are so exclusively focused on the player.
It's much harder to have a villain interface with the main character in a game than in a film, because the player has agency. Outside of cutscenes, you have to keep the baddie out of viewing distance or risk a headshot. This makes games routinely a buildup to an encounter, rather than a string of subsequent encounters of escalating severity, and keeps us from learning much about the person we're fighting until it's time to put a cap in his head.

An interesting approach would be to have the player character turn out to be the villain - not as in KOTOR, but in a manner that places the player in direct opposition to his own (or his character's) earlier actions - lets the player know, first-hand, what makes him tick and why he does what he does.


I don't know if any games have done this, however; if anyone knows of one, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Sometimes the less characterisation the villain has, the better. Half the plot of Mirror's Edge is figuring out just who the villains are (I don't mean the basic baddies either, I mean the overarching big-bads.

Off-topic: Mirror's Edge was written by Rhianna Pratchett.

Spoiler: This is Rhianna Pratchett. Why did I not know about this?

 

[pure.Wasted]

An interesting approach would be to have the player character turn out to be the villain - not as in KOTOR, but in a manner that places the player in direct opposition to his own (or his character's) earlier actions - lets the player know, first-hand, what makes him tick and why he does what he does.


I don't know if any games have done this, however; if anyone knows of one, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

Bastion. Bastion. Bastion. Bastion. That's the game you really want to play.

Mass Effect 3 (but not in a good way [surprise, surprise!]).

SC: Brood War, in a way. A number of the sympathetic player characters bring about their own Shakespearean downfall.

Hmm... good villains are hard in games, I think, because games are so exclusively focused on the player.
It's much harder to have a villain interface with the main character in a game than in a film, because the player has agency. Outside of cutscenes, you have to keep the baddie out of viewing distance or risk a headshot. This makes games routinely a buildup to an encounter, rather than a string of subsequent encounters of escalating severity, and keeps us from learning much about the person we're fighting until it's time to put a cap in his head.

I don't think it's that tough. You just need to get a little bit creative. Take ME2, the main bad guy is basically invincible. Go ahead and headshot him as much as you like, whatever dramatic moments you two were meant to have will be had regardless.

Or Arkham Asylum. The Joker's with you for 99% of the game. Just because you can see him or especially hear him, however, doesn't mean you have any opportunities to take him down. Maybe he's behind a whole squad of bad guys, ready to get away the moment you seem to be getting the upper hand. Maybe he's behind some bulletproof glass. Maybe you can only see a recording of his on camera, or over speakers. Maybe you're tied up to a chair and in no position to fight.

 

[distortedreality]

Is interesting.

So many people hack on KoToR 2, but Kreia is probably one of the coolest villains of gaming history. The fact that you spend he majority of the game with her at your side helping you definitely adds to the awesomeness.

 

[Emiscary]

Saren was a very good villain.
Also, the master from fallout 1

Sovereign was even moreso.

Even though I think he's awesome, he had less lines than Saren and less screen time. So I'd disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_NAoNd4YyY

THIS EXCHANGE IS OVER.