Great Sci Fi TV shows (except Star Trek)

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

^BSG is not nihilistic.

No, it's not technically nihilistic; in fact, very few things actually are. People use the term to describe stories with a lot of dark themes and gritty, messed up characters, which BSG certainly has. BSG gets called nihilistic because of it's tone, but tone doesn't make something nihilistic. Hell, The Big Lebowski is one of the most nihilistic movies I've ever seen and it's a screwball comedy.

But nihilistic is, colloquially, just used as a shorthand term for dark, brooding, and pessimistic.

 

[Hawki]

I had to look where I called BSG nihilistic, and turns out I did. To refresh:

Nihilism: "The rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless."

Existential Nihilism: "That life is without meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

Moral Nihilism: "There is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived."

So, in fairness, BSG isn't nihilistic, but Vamp does point out that "nihilsitic" is used colloquially to describe dark, gritty, brooding material. That said, I think there are elements of nihilism to be found in BSG, in that:

a) The universe is a cold, uncaring place that isn't suited for life (this is more or less outright stated in season 1). That humanity managed to find a habitable star system after leaving Kobol (and likely arriving at Kobol from someplace else, given that a continuous cycle is going on), and later finds Earth, these are just exceptions to the rule. Habitable planets are few and far between.

b) As stated, humanity seems to be in a cycle of creation and destruction, fated to tread the same path over and over until they manage to get lucky. The ending leaves it up to you whether humanity on Earth will transcend this or will have its own AI rebellion. "God" in the series apparently has a plan for humanity, but it's a plan that involves a lot of trial and error.

 

[Hawki]

Blake's-7. It's as old and classic as Doctor Who, but I feel as though it didn't know what to do with itself, after a while. Kind of a shame, really.

Much as I like Blake's 7, I don't think I'd put it as being a "classic" in the same sense as Doctor Who, in as much that while lots of people at least know about the existence of Doctor Who, Blake's 7 can't hold that claim. Or at least, not outside the UK, where it may have more presence in the cultural zeitgeist.

As for not knowing what to do with itself? Not sure. Only seen the first three seasons, so maybe things change in season 4, but for the first three, there's more or less a direction. First two seasons, it's focused on Blake and co. fighting against the Federation, culminating with Starbase One, Travis dying, and the Andromedan invasion. Season 3, it does kind of lose a bit of focus (in that Avon and Tarrant are more intent on staying alive than actively fighting the Federation), but it still has the overarching plot of Servalan filling in the power vacuum the invasion created.

I'm honestly surprised with so many B5 recommendations and hardly any BSG mentions. BSG is the vastly superior show, not that B5 isn't great.

Well, I will say that given the average age of the forum user here, B5 has the advantage of being a show of the 90s, while BSG is a show of the 2000s. The 90s appeals to our nostalgia more, though I say this as someone who saw BSG before B5.

That said, while I like both, of what I've seen (all of BSG, and the first three seasons of B5), B5 is the better show for me, but as my ratings show, I still hold BSG in high regard. BSG undoubtedly has better production values, but B5 edges out BSG, in as much as the following goes:

a) For me, BSG's order of quality goes 3>2>1>4. Season 4, for me, is really the weak link, and I have to take that into account when evaluating the series as a whole. It's the reason why I put Blake's 7 above it, as I find it on par with BSG mostly, but it lacks the 'season 4 factor.' Season 4 feels like two seasons compressed into one, likely hindered by the writers' strike that went on at the time. And while I'm more open to BSG's religious sub-text than most, S4 takes things to the extreme.

b) I like the B5 characters more. Now, that's very subjective, but B5, I feel, does benefit from more 'colour', more levity, and more variety in its characters, as we run the gamete of military, to civilian, to religious, to aliens, etc. BSG's human characters are mostly military, with a few exceptions (e.g. Roslin and Baltar). As a result, they feel a bit more monotonous. Not bad characters by any means (I think that they're quite well written), but I feel B5 does it a bit better, if only because the characters are more varied. That, and BSG feels like it's actively trying to titilate the audience at times (Six is a walking example of that). When B5 does romance, to me, it feels more natural. I don't need Delenn to titilate Sherridan to be invested in their relationship, I'm invested in their relationship because I think they're both good characters, and have good chemistry between them. The 'Arthur and Guinivere' of the series, as it were.

c) I feel B5 has better worldbuilding. Now, this isn't BSG's fault, because its 'world' is a fleet fleeing through space, abandoning worlds, whereas B5 is a station set between worlds, and we gain exposure to them over time.

There is a chance that B5 could slip with me if/when I finally get my hands on seasons 4 and 5, but for these reasons, it does edge out BSG, though again, BSG is a show I really like as well.

(the less said about SG-1's first season, the better).

I can understand that sentiment, but I think season 1 has something that a lot of later seasons lack, and that's a sense of tension...sort of. As in, at this point, the Tau'ri are woefully outmatched by the goa'uld, and Apophis feels like a true threat at the end. It's also arguably the 'purest' in terms of concept, as we're introduced to the tropes of the series (ancient cultures on alien worlds), and it lacks the spaceships of later seasons. As in, the stargate is the only method of travel, whereas later on, the Tau'ri are quite fine using spaceships like any other sci-fi show (even though the spaceships feel in keeping with Stargate's US military style, so there is that).

Stargate Atlantis and Firefly are secondary recommendations, SG:A since, while good, it's much weaker than SG-1, and Firefly because there's all of 1 season of it (and frankly, only a couple of it's episodes were notably good, but let's pretend I didn't say that on the internet).

These, I agree with. Atlantis takes the style of SG-1, but takes out what made it interesting IMO. Gone are the ancient cultures, the Wraith feel less unique than the goa'uld, etc. I feel the first season of Atlantis is the best because it had an isolated base, with little chance of backup from Earth. After that, we're back to spaceships, spaceships, and more spaceships.

Also, Firefly. Good series, but as you said, only one season. Other shows have been good over multiple seasons.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

(the less said about SG-1's first season, the better).

I can understand that sentiment, but I think season 1 has something that a lot of later seasons lack, and that's a sense of tension...sort of. As in, at this point, the Tau'ri are woefully outmatched by the goa'uld, and Apophis feels like a true threat at the end. It's also arguably the 'purest' in terms of concept, as we're introduced to the tropes of the series (ancient cultures on alien worlds), and it lacks the spaceships of later seasons. As in, the stargate is the only method of travel, whereas later on, the Tau'ri are quite fine using spaceships like any other sci-fi show (even though the spaceships feel in keeping with Stargate's US military style, so there is that).

To be fair that's more that the first dozen-or-so episodes are just... fucking awful. So awful. Awful to the point they were retroactively erased from the Stargate Canon.

The actual end of the season is good, since they'd managed to settle into the quality they were going for, everyone was comfortable with their characters and they'd stopped drinking whatever the fuck they were when they made Hathor. The season 1 final is one of my favourites, since it has that tension you mention - a rogue, 4-man squad waaaay out of their depth trying to stop Apophis as he makes his big move against the Earth? Fucking brilliant.

It's just... hard to say it's a good season when 'Emancipation' is one of the episodes in it... *shudder*.

 

[oRevanchisto]

^BSG is not nihilistic.

No, it's not technically nihilistic; in fact, very few things actually are. People use the term to describe stories with a lot of dark themes and gritty, messed up characters, which BSG certainly has. BSG gets called nihilistic because of it's tone, but tone doesn't make something nihilistic. Hell, The Big Lebowski is one of the most nihilistic movies I've ever seen and it's a screwball comedy.

But nihilistic is, colloquially, just used as a shorthand term for dark, brooding, and pessimistic.

I had to look where I called BSG nihilistic, and turns out I did. To refresh:

Nihilism: "The rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless."

Existential Nihilism: "That life is without meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

Moral Nihilism: "There is no inherent morality, and that accepted moral values are abstractly contrived."

So, in fairness, BSG isn't nihilistic, but Vamp does point out that "nihilsitic" is used colloquially to describe dark, gritty, brooding material. That said, I think there are elements of nihilism to be found in BSG, in that:

a) The universe is a cold, uncaring place that isn't suited for life (this is more or less outright stated in season 1). That humanity managed to find a habitable star system after leaving Kobol (and likely arriving at Kobol from someplace else, given that a continuous cycle is going on), and later finds Earth, these are just exceptions to the rule. Habitable planets are few and far between.

b) As stated, humanity seems to be in a cycle of creation and destruction, fated to tread the same path over and over until they manage to get lucky. The ending leaves it up to you whether humanity on Earth will transcend this or will have its own AI rebellion. "God" in the series apparently has a plan for humanity, but it's a plan that involves a lot of trial and error.

I know what the technical definition of what nihilism is and was both referring to its actual definition and colloquial use. BSG is not a super dark and unforgiving world. In fact, it is quite optimistic and full of romanticism. It's just coated at first in what appears to be a morally uncompromising world. The idea is that humanity can find the best of itself even in the harshest of circumstances, it is the triumph of the human spirit and goodness that ultimately saves everyone in the end. Humanity is routinely asked what it will do to survive, what are we willing to compromise in the face of apparent evil and our own destruction? Do morals matter in the face of extinction from a foreign enemy? Can we ever truly understand and/or make peace with our enemies, especially when their beliefs are so foreign to us? Can the cycle of violence be stopped, from oppressed to oppressor? Vengeance begotten vengeance? BSG attempts to answer all of these questions and humanity comes out the other side stronger for it.

While the "A Song of Ice and Fire" book series isn't finished yet I suspect it will have a similar ending. While the show has seemed to completely lost track of the spirit of the novels choosing instead to wallow in violence and despair, the books are not such an exercise. Instead, the books spend quite a bit of time, especially the last two, pondering whether such violence is the right answer. That good can rise even in the harshest of times. However, if I were to list an example of a show that is "nihilistic" I'd pick, The Walking Dead. It's why I ended up stop watching the show. TWD is an exercise in nihilism. There are no deeper underlying themes or questions being asked, no triumph of goodwill; it is a world where violence is the only means of security and all conscience or emotion must be excised. There is no divine plan or purpose to anything, characters die for no reason at all in a completely uncaring world. That, in essence, is nihilism.

Just because a show is "dark" doesn't make it nihilistic. Often post-apocalyptic stories are used to tell morally uplifting stories, to teach us that even in the very worst of scenarios survival is more than just breathing in air everyday. That our humanity, our conscience matters. Even the horrifically dark, gritty, uncompromising film that is "The Road" understands this. TWD, however, does not. Meanwhile, shows like BSG or The 100 understand this perfect.

 

[Hawki]

BSG is not a super dark and unforgiving world. In fact, it is quite optimistic and full of romanticism. It's just coated at first in what appears to be a morally uncompromising world. The idea is that humanity can find the best of itself even in the harshest of circumstances, it is the triumph of the human spirit and goodness that ultimately saves everyone in the end. Humanity is routinely asked what it will do to survive, what are we willing to compromise in the face of apparent evil and our own destruction? Do morals matter in the face of extinction from a foreign enemy? Can we ever truly understand and/or make peace with our enemies, especially when their beliefs are so foreign to us? Can the cycle of violence be stopped, from oppressed to oppressor? Vengeance begotten vengeance? BSG attempts to answer all of these questions and humanity comes out the other side stronger for it.

Yeah...I can't agree with any of that.

BSG IS an unforgiving world. It starts with the majority of humanity being wiped out, and that no. steadily decreasing as the series goes on (e.g. how the intro of each episode gives the no. of survivors looking for a new home, said number steadily decreasing over the course of the series). Throughout the series, we're shown that yes, humanity can pull together, but only with corruption, murder, and other vices tagging along for the ride. And while humanity does find a new home at the end, it's only through divine providence that it does so, and it does leave it open to the idea that, to quote, "all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." There's a strong chance that the humans of Earth will create AI again, will destroy themselves again, and the cycle of creation and destruction will continue. And "God" apparently won't care, because this is all part of some divine plan. I don't think that BSG is inherently an argument for the existence of a divine being, but it does present humanity as being irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. Barely keeping its head above the water of its own vices, and being at the mercy of a higher power.

Likewise, the cycle of violence isn't even stopped. Humanity doesn't make peace with the cylons, they're defeated in a final battle, where, even as the prospect of peace looms, Tyrol kills Tory, One commits suicide, and all that's left of the cylon race are the centurions and the Sixes, Eights, and Twos, who'll be absorbed into the greater human gene pool ala Hera, or die out. BSG, to me, presents a very cynical view on the human condition.

However, if I were to list an example of a show that is "nihilistic" I'd pick, The Walking Dead. It's why I ended up stop watching the show. TWD is an exercise in nihilism. There are no deeper underlying themes or questions being asked, no triumph of goodwill; it is a world where violence is the only means of security and all conscience or emotion must be excised. There is no divine plan or purpose to anything, characters die for no reason at all in a completely uncaring world. That, in essence, is nihilism.

I agree that TWD is nihilistic, even more so than BSG, but I feel you're selling it short. If anything, TWD asks these questions more than BSG - what, if stripped of civilization and security, will humans do? Will we rise to the challenge, or turn on each other? BSG kind of asks these questions, but it's more concerned with presenting its own take on ideas such as divine intervention, and serving as analogy on issues such as government, military, faith, and terrorism. TWD doesn't have a hard answer to these questions, but it does take the road of showing that stripped of security, humans can and will do monstrous things to each other, and taking the high road will only take you so far. You may not like the answer it gives, but it's not diminished by presenting such an answer. By that logic, is 'Lord of the Flies' a lesser novel by asking the same question and providing the answer that humans will quickly become like animals if stripped of order?

A post-apocalyptic setting can be used to tell morally uplifting stories, but I don't see that as being inherently superior to taking a more pessimistic view.

 

[Imre Csete]

Poor Sliders, they messed up so bad nobody mentions it anymore, but that show was rad as a kid.

 

[oRevanchisto]

BSG is not a super dark and unforgiving world. In fact, it is quite optimistic and full of romanticism. It's just coated at first in what appears to be a morally uncompromising world. The idea is that humanity can find the best of itself even in the harshest of circumstances, it is the triumph of the human spirit and goodness that ultimately saves everyone in the end. Humanity is routinely asked what it will do to survive, what are we willing to compromise in the face of apparent evil and our own destruction? Do morals matter in the face of extinction from a foreign enemy? Can we ever truly understand and/or make peace with our enemies, especially when their beliefs are so foreign to us? Can the cycle of violence be stopped, from oppressed to oppressor? Vengeance begotten vengeance? BSG attempts to answer all of these questions and humanity comes out the other side stronger for it.

Yeah...I can't agree with any of that.

BSG IS an unforgiving world. It starts with the majority of humanity being wiped out, and that no. steadily decreasing as the series goes on (e.g. how the intro of each episode gives the no. of survivors looking for a new home, said number steadily decreasing over the course of the series). Throughout the series, we're shown that yes, humanity can pull together, but only with corruption, murder, and other vices tagging along for the ride. And while humanity does find a new home at the end, it's only through divine providence that it does so, and it does leave it open to the idea that, to quote, "all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." There's a strong chance that the humans of Earth will create AI again, will destroy themselves again, and the cycle of creation and destruction will continue. And "God" apparently won't care, because this is all part of some divine plan. I don't think that BSG is inherently an argument for the existence of a divine being, but it does present humanity as being irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. Barely keeping its head above the water of its own vices, and being at the mercy of a higher power.

Likewise, the cycle of violence isn't even stopped. Humanity doesn't make peace with the cylons, they're defeated in a final battle, where, even as the prospect of peace looms, Tyrol kills Tory, One commits suicide, and all that's left of the cylon race are the centurions and the Sixes, Eights, and Twos, who'll be absorbed into the greater human gene pool ala Hera, or die out. BSG, to me, presents a very cynical view on the human condition.

However, if I were to list an example of a show that is "nihilistic" I'd pick, The Walking Dead. It's why I ended up stop watching the show. TWD is an exercise in nihilism. There are no deeper underlying themes or questions being asked, no triumph of goodwill; it is a world where violence is the only means of security and all conscience or emotion must be excised. There is no divine plan or purpose to anything, characters die for no reason at all in a completely uncaring world. That, in essence, is nihilism.

I agree that TWD is nihilistic, even more so than BSG, but I feel you're selling it short. If anything, TWD asks these questions more than BSG - what, if stripped of civilization and security, will humans do? Will we rise to the challenge, or turn on each other? BSG kind of asks these questions, but it's more concerned with presenting its own take on ideas such as divine intervention, and serving as analogy on issues such as government, military, faith, and terrorism. TWD doesn't have a hard answer to these questions, but it does take the road of showing that stripped of security, humans can and will do monstrous things to each other, and taking the high road will only take you so far. You may not like the answer it gives, but it's not diminished by presenting such an answer. By that logic, is 'Lord of the Flies' a lesser novel by asking the same question and providing the answer that humans will quickly become like animals if stripped of order?

A post-apocalyptic setting can be used to tell morally uplifting stories, but I don't see that as being inherently superior to taking a more pessimistic view.

100% disagree. You seem to be cherry-picking a lot out of the series. Hell, the whole finale is devoted to the breaking of the cycle of violence and peace between machines and humans. You forget that the final "battle" was fought over a literal child, a human-cylon child. There was no strategic importance to the battle, it didn't benefit humanity in one single way. In fact, the best plan was to simply leave and keep searching for a home with the remaining humans and the cylons that chose to side with humanity. However, Adm. Adama and the rest had decided that enough was enough, they'd lost too much, compromised too much, they were not going to let this innocent child die. So, they risk a good portion of what was left of the human race along with the cylons to save ONE CHILD. A child that is the figurative embodiment of peace between all machines and humans.

In the end, this act of compassion is rewarded. Humanity and the Cylons find a new home. Peace rules the day. The Centurions are giving control of the Baseship and allowed to do as they pleace, which the Cylons believe will also aid in breaking the cycle. The remainder of humanity and the Cylons choose to live together on Earth and thus help create modern-day humans. That is the VERY OPPOSITE of a nihilistic story. There are plenty of situations like this throughout the entire series where the morals of humanity and pitted against our need to survive, and often, our goodness is able to triumph in the end. Adm. Adama and the President were all for using the virus they found to wipe out ALL the Cylons but Helo said, no. He recognized that even though the Cylons were the enemy, that genocide was not the answer and he stopped it. He placed all of humanity at risk to preserve our conscience. The overriding theme of BSG is that LOVE eventually conquers all. What do you think the whole Caprica Six-Gauis Baltar situation was about? It was the love of Hera that eventually saved all of humanity and the Cylons. It was love that convinced Adm. Adama to trust Kara despite all logic suggesting she might be some sort of Cylon. Isn't any surprise that the Cylons that ultimately got wiped out in the end were all the cold-harded logical Cylons that showed no empathy or conscience?

BSG is NOT nihilistic. It is romantic.

 

[Hawki]

100% disagree. You seem to be cherry-picking a lot out of the series. Hell, the whole finale is devoted to the breaking of the cycle of violence and peace between machines and humans. You forget that the final "battle" was fought over a literal child, a human-cylon child. There was no strategic importance to the battle, it didn't benefit humanity in one single way. In fact, the best plan was to simply leave and keep searching for a home with the remaining humans and the cylons that chose to side with humanity. However, Adm. Adama and the rest had decided that enough was enough, they'd lost too much, compromised too much, they were not going to let this innocent child die. So, they risk a good portion of what was left of the human race along with the cylons to save ONE CHILD. A child that is the figurative embodiment of peace between all machines and humans.

A finale that breaks the cycle of violence between humans and cylons...by showing violence between humans and cylons...and hints and further violence between humans and cylons (or whatever AI we create).

Okay, fine, Adama leads a rescue operation to save Hera. An operation that's volunteers only, with said volunteers not exactly forming a majority of humanity, if we take the 'line scene' in Galactica itself as a microcosm for the fleet as a whole. I also didn't really get a sense that he's doing this out of compassion, but rather submitting himself to fate. That maybe there is a divine plan to all of this, and he can only submit to it, because right now, there isn't much of an alternative.

In the end, this act of compassion is rewarded. Humanity and the Cylons find a new home. Peace rules the day. The Centurions are giving control of the Baseship and allowed to do as they pleace, which the Cylons believe will also aid in breaking the cycle. The remainder of humanity and the Cylons choose to live together on Earth and thus help create modern-day humans. That is the VERY OPPOSITE of a nihilistic story.

Few things:

-As stated, I don't see Adama's actions as primarily being driven by compassion, but even if they are, the action in itself isn't rewarded. The only reason they get out of the situation is because of Angel!Kara hitting coordinates that just happen to lead to Earth. It isn't through human ingenuity that they get out of the situation, it's through divine intervention, in a series that's had a lot of it already (the 'angels' of Six and Baltar for instance).

-You state that "peace rules the day." Peace only assured through bloodshed. Even at the very last moment, Tyrol kills Tory, One commits suicide, all the 'bad cylons' are either killed or commit suicide. This isn't really an uplifting moment for greater peace between humans and cylons, especially since the future of the cylons is to be assimilated into the new human gene pool. Key word on 'new,' as the humanity of the Twelve Colonies will also cease to exist as a new humanity formed from Earth-human, colony-human, and cylon will emerge. That's not inherently a bad thing, but it's coexistence through assimilation.

-The modern day humans are shown going down the same path as every incarnation of humanity before them. The series does leave it open as to whether the cycle will repeat itself or not. But there are hints that it will, as it juxtaposes the humanoid robot between a man in poverty. There's also the sense that regardless of the outcome, it's all part of "God's plan." That humans are at the mercy of a higher power. They outright need the actions of a higher power to get to Earth in the first place, given how angel!Kara enters the coordinates.

There are plenty of situations like this throughout the entire series where the morals of humanity and pitted against our need to survive, and often, our goodness is able to triumph in the end. Adm. Adama and the President were all for using the virus they found to wipe out ALL the Cylons but Helo said, no. He recognized that even though the Cylons were the enemy, that genocide was not the answer and he stopped it. He placed all of humanity at risk to preserve our conscience.

That's an...interesting way of looking at it.

As you stated, Adama and Roslin were all for wiping out the cylons. Despite her unease, Sharon didn't try to stop them. Helo does, sure. Adama and Roslin agree to let the thing blow over. Now, you could argue that's morally uplifting, but I see it as being more cynical, and a callback to the 'massacre' that takes place after Tigh's command. Adama explains to Allers that they can't hold Tigh or the marines to account because "we don't have enough men left to sacrifice on the altar of moral outrage." (or something similar). It's cold-hard realism that they have to let this pass, because soldiers are a valuable resource, and in cold hard calculus, more valuable than civilians.

The virus thing strikes me as a parallel to this. Adama and Roslin may not like what Helo has done, but what's done is done. Helo, at least, is still a good pilot/officer, so they'll need him in the future. They don't regret their actions, they just have to live with his.

What do you think the whole Caprica Six-Gauis Baltar situation was about? It was the love of Hera that eventually saved all of humanity and the Cylons.

Caprica Six and Baltar can be said to be an example of 'true love,' but it's a love that does require prompting from the 'angels' that appear before them (mainly Baltar, Six to a lesser extent). Are they together because of said love, or because 'God' wants them to be, in order to help create the new humanity that'll emerge on Earth. Probably a bit of both.

It was love that convinced Adm. Adama to trust Kara despite all logic suggesting she might be some sort of Cylon. Isn't any surprise that the Cylons that ultimately got wiped out in the end were all the cold-harded logical Cylons that showed no empathy or conscience?

Maybe, but I can't say I'm convinced. It has to be pointed out that for those who suspected of Kara being a cylon trying to infiltrate the fleet, she was doing a pretty poor job of it - "yes, let's send the Kara model to take them to Earth, despite everyone seeing the old Kara model blow up." I'm not saying that anyone who thought Kara was a cylon prior to Anders making it clear that she wasn't was without reason to think so, but in-universe and out of universe, there was too much iffiness. And after all, human!Kara died in season 3. It's angel!Kara that Adama trusts, it's angel!Kara that takes humanity to Earth. It's less about human love triumphing and more about leaving one's fate to the divine. Which, to me, isn't that uplifting, as the notion is that humanity is at the whims of a higher power, and can only survive through following the wishes of said higher power instead of forging its own path.

As for the 'bad cylons' being wiped out...well, maybe, but again, Tyrol kills Tory. Kills her with understandable motivations, but kills her nonetheless, and throws the peace process into jeprody. The remaining cylon models will either die out, or pass down their genes, but be assimilated. The cylons, as a race, end either way. I find it more telling that it's the cylons who have more ferverant faith that survive (the Twos and Sixes), while the Ones, Fours, and Fives, are the more skeptical ones (or at least Model One). Apparently, there's no room for atheists in God's plan.

At the end of the day, BSG isn't entirely nihilistic, but I can't really call it romantic either. Especially when a fair portion of the romance is driven by lust within the series.

 

[pookie101]

Poor Sliders, they messed up so bad nobody mentions it anymore, but that show was rad as a kid.

i miss sliders i loved watching it

 

[Zen Bard]

I'll second a couple and throw in three of my own:

The Expanse - Hands down, one of the better science fiction show to come along in awhile. It has adventure, political intrigue, terrific acting and extremely competent writing. Plus the show runner, Naren Shankar, has a PhD in physics. So it's not short on credible science.

Blake's 7 - It's a great British show about a ragged band of intergalactic anti-heroes going against an oppressive government. That may be a common trope now, but it was pretty groundbreaking back then. Think Firefly on an 80's Doctor Who budget.

12 Monkeys - I admit, the show has gone off the rails a bit. But I really enjoyed the first two seasons. What I really appreciated was how it established its in-universe rules for Time Travel and stuck with them. So there were no "timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly" cop outs. Everything that happened was perfectly within the confines of its own logic.

The Prisoner - This may not be exactly science fiction, but I'm not sure how else to classify it. A disgraced secret agent tries to escape from a very strange seaside villa, run by very shady people. It's a colorful, trippy mindfuck. Imagine '66 Batman (RIP Adam West) meets James Bond on acid.

U.F.O. - Another late-70's early-80's British show and one of my all time favorites. The plot is simply about a secret alien invasion and the covert organization determined to stop them. But there were a lot of elements that were way ahead of its time. The aliens are never seen and their motives are never given (though it's speculated they're harvesting organs). The good guys don't always win, and the characters go through some incredibly dark arcs as the series progresses (the main character's marriage disintegrates over the whole first season and some of his loved ones actually die because he was too busy fighting the aliens). Quite a few modern sci-fi shows owe a debt to this series.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

The Prisoner, if it hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Without a doubt Legend of the Galactic Heroes

That anime that /pol/ and the redpill crowd are constantly showing their boners off for? Been hesitant on the grounds of it's fanbase...

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

The Prisoner - This may not be exactly science fiction, but I'm not sure how else to classify it. A disgraced secret agent tries to escape from a very strange seaside villa, run by very shady people. It's a colorful, trippy mindfuck. Imagine '66 Batman (RIP Adam West) meets James Bond on acid.

Actually, little detail ya mucked up that's important; No. 6 wasn't disgraced, far from it. He was actually considered a model agent, with literally "Not a blemish on his record." He resigned from Our Side and didn't elaborate fully on his reasoning. The whole driving motivation of The Village was to find out why he did, which he never reveals at all.

 

[pookie101]

The Prisoner - This may not be exactly science fiction, but I'm not sure how else to classify it. A disgraced secret agent tries to escape from a very strange seaside villa, run by very shady people. It's a colorful, trippy mindfuck. Imagine '66 Batman (RIP Adam West) meets James Bond on acid.

Actually, little detail ya mucked up that's important; No. 6 wasn't disgraced, far from it. He was actually considered a model agent, with literally "Not a blemish on his record." He resigned from Our Side and didn't elaborate fully on his reasoning. The whole driving motivation of The Village was to find out why he did, which he never reveals at all.

i discovered the show about 15 years ago and fell in love with its campy weirdness.. you will learn to fear the power of these fully activated giant beach balls! muahahha