Greg's GTA 5 review... I won't read another escapist review ever again.

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Andante

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Feb 17, 2010
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Before I get flamed, hear me out. At first before I made headways into GTA 5, I disagreed with Greg's review because I believed despicable characters should be the norm in GTA 5 games, you never had a choice of being a good guy in GTA games, you simply controlled them to advance the story as they gain wealth and power.

HOWEVER, now that I've beaten the game, Greg has gotten it WRONG, oh so wrong, but not in the way I thought he was wrong before I played the game.

Greg's review now annoys me in the same way people who read and disagree about evolution argue with "How come monkeys in the zoo don't ever turn into humans?"... he just didn't get it.

Let's examine Michael. Have you ever wondered how life would be after being a successful criminal and making it and settle down? Well Michael is an almost depressing take, with a dysfunctional family. I feel myself pulling for him, and hoping it gets better, because one of the worst nightmares for any parent is having kids that turn out useless, and that's exactly how his kids are. Michael is the father who cares about his kids but do not know how to express it properly, however his kids are the most unlikable and frustrating characters I've met, in the sense that they can't be ditched since they are his kids after all.

And then there is Franklin. If you ever wondered how it would be like to make it rich as a criminal, then he is as likeable and relatable as a character can get. However if you expect main characters to be JRPG pre puberty idealistic high pitched voiced kid, then yes he is despicable. Franklin keeps things in perspective (as a low profile criminal), and those of you complain about the use of "nigga" when black people are talking to each other on screen... its obvious you've never hung out with black people from the hood before. Hell just watch videos on worldstarhiphop, some of the videos of real interactions of black people make GTA 5's writing look tame. It's kind of funny... people complain about GTA 5 use of cuss words and nigga thinking its unrealistic when it's actually as realistic as ever... just shows how disconnected some gamers are from reality. Don't believe me, just go to the hood and listen in on some convos.

Finally Trevor... the character Greg complains so much about. He complains Trevor is unrelatable... well YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO RELATE TO TREVOR. Trevor is CRAZY, or as he put it "chemically imbalanced", his motivations and thought process cannot be simply classified as "evil", you just can't, he is fascinating and ridiculous at the same time. The more I played as Trevor, the more I realized how much Greg "didn't get it", and I fear that Greg's misrepresentation of Trevor has put off a lot of gamers from experiencing one of the most interesting and "different" main characters to be ever introduced in recent gaming.

All three of these characters are vastly different, and the times when they are in the same room interacting with each other are some of the best writing and dialogue I've seen in video games yet. You can feel the tension sometimes, and the interaction dynamics are fascinating.

I'm used to watching shows like Breaking Bad, and Game of Thrones, so none of these characters seem despicable to me, and the writing for them is excellent. It just frustrates me that Greg's review has probably put off some people from experiencing some of the best dialogue and character interactions in a GTA game yet due to him "not getting it". As I kept progressing further in the game, it kept creeping into my mind "How could that guy Greg miss the point by so much", which was annoying because all I wanted to do was keep experiencing the story and not worry about some other guys inability to grasp the story.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Why would the fact you disagreed with Greg's opinion on a single game put you off reading any Escapist reviewer's opinion on any other game ever again? I could see maybe saying "I disagree with Greg, therefore I find his reviews uninformative as far as my tastes go". But you're throwing a blanket over the entire website. It's like buying a book from a book store, hating the author, and saying "I'll never read anything from that book store ever again!".

You're throwing a strop. Just take a deep breath and reconsider your position.
 

Pink Gregory

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Good for you.

Also, you do realise that Greg Tito is not the only reviewer on this website, right?
 
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Man, I can taste the melodrama in the air.

You didn't agree with Greg's opinion, that's fine, but to swear off reading other reviews because of that?

Lol.

Lol I say.
 

Zenn3k

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Andante said:
Before I get flamed, hear me out. At first before I made headways into GTA 5, I disagreed with Greg's review because I believed despicable characters should be the norm in GTA 5 games, you never had a choice of being a good guy in GTA games, you simply controlled them to advance the story as they gain wealth and power.

HOWEVER, now that I've beaten the game, Greg has gotten it WRONG, oh so wrong, but not in the way I thought he was wrong before I played the game.

Greg's review now annoys me in the same way people who read and disagree about evolution argue with "How come monkeys in the zoo don't ever turn into humans?"... he just didn't get it.

Let's examine Michael. Have you ever wondered how life would be after being a successful criminal and making it and settle down? Well Michael is an almost depressing take, with a dysfunctional family. I feel myself pulling for him, and hoping it gets better, because one of the worst nightmares for any parent is having kids that turn out useless, and that's exactly how his kids are. Michael is the father who cares about his kids but do not know how to express it properly, however his kids are the most unlikable and frustrating characters I've met, in the sense that they can't be ditched since they are his kids after all.

And then there is Franklin. If you ever wondered how it would be like to make it rich as a criminal, then he is as likeable and relatable as a character can get. However if you expect main characters to be JRPG pre puberty idealistic high pitched voiced kid, then yes he is despicable. Franklin keeps things in perspective (as a low profile criminal), and those of you complain about the use of "nigga" when black people are talking to each other on screen... its obvious you've never hung out with black people from the hood before. Hell just watch videos on worldstarhiphop, some of the videos of real interactions of black people make GTA 5's writing look tame. It's kind of funny... people complain about GTA 5 use of cuss words and nigga thinking its unrealistic when it's actually as realistic as ever... just shows how disconnected some gamers are from reality. Don't believe me, just go to the hood and listen in on some convos.

Finally Trevor... the character Greg complains so much about. He complains Trevor is unrelatable... well YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO RELATE TO TREVOR. Trevor is CRAZY, or as he put it "chemically imbalanced", his motivations and thought process cannot be simply classified as "evil", you just can't, he is fascinating and ridiculous at the same time. The more I played as Trevor, the more I realized how much Greg "didn't get it", and I fear that Greg's misrepresentation of Trevor has put off a lot of gamers from experiencing one of the most interesting and "different" main characters to be ever introduced in recent gaming.

All three of these characters are vastly different, and the times when they are in the same room interacting with each other are some of the best writing and dialogue I've seen in video games yet. You can feel the tension sometimes, and the interaction dynamics are fascinating.

I'm used to watching shows like Breaking Bad, and Game of Thrones, so none of these characters seem despicable to me, and the writing for them is excellent. It just frustrates me that Greg's review has probably put off some people from experiencing some of the best dialogue and character interactions in a GTA game yet due to him "not getting it". As I kept progressing further in the game, it kept creeping into my mind "How could that guy Greg miss the point by so much", which was annoying because all I wanted to do was keep experiencing the story and not worry about some other guys inability to grasp the story.
As another who beat this game, I agree with your statements here.

I'll go further into the "issues" of GTA5 as well. The cries of female denigration. They are falsified. Yes, there are strippers and hookers...ya know, the oldest professions in the world, yes they exist. However, the remaining female characters are NOT as bad as some had claimed them to be. Amanda (Michael's wife) is not a "nagging wife" character, she's a wife and a mother and dealing with her husband's return into a life he specifically left 10 years ago. Does she do some Yoga and spew standard GTA silly dialog just as much as anyone else in the game? Sure, but in no way was she singled out as over the top, not anymore than any of the male characters were.

The whole "women are portrayed terribly in GTA5" thing is looking at the game through feminist glasses. The women aren't MORE ridiculous then any of the men, they are just being ridiculous about things women do, just like the men are for things men do.
 

Thr33X

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The Lord is testing me I swear...

I can't wait to play this game when I get off of work today. First thing after getting paid was DLing it from PSN. I'm gonna play the hell out of this game and enjoy the hell out of this game because that's what it was meant for. Fuck the reviews. Fuck the critics. Fuck the cynics. I game because I want to, and I do it how I want to and when I want to. Nobody's opinion is more important than the one you make for yourself. So often do people on the internet use that ideal in the wrong way...when done right it's quite empowering. It basically declares "I'm going to make my own damn decisions for myself without needing anyone's input."

In this rarest of rare occasions, ignorance IS bliss.
 

Andante

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Feb 17, 2010
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Nah
BloatedGuppy said:
You're throwing a strop. Just take a deep breath and reconsider your position.
It's not a strop, its more like a "last straw" kind of thing. But most likely I just won't read any of Greg's reviews anymore, however the problem is I tend to read reviews first before looking at the author out of habit.

Should known better ever since Greg's 10/10 Dragon Age 2 review, where he was completely... well, he was just crazy in that one.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.
 

Andante

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TheKasp said:
Oh no, some particular reviewer doesn't seem eye to eye with you, the horror I tell ya!

So should I denounce any reviewer that gave DA:O more than 6 points? Sorry but it is how it is: You have to find a reviewer that panders to your likins, if the ones on this website aren't the ones than bad luck but what is the discussion value of that?
Reviewers are PAID to do a good job and properly reviewing and representing what to expect in a game. If they do a horrible job then yes, they should be denounced.

Due to Greg's review, I expected Trevor to be a super evil guy with "intentions", when in actuality he didn't really have "intentions", he was just crazy, and for Greg to not realize that is just mind boggling.

So yes if some reviewer gave a game more than 6 points but misrepresented the game, like say told everyone it had functional multiplayer, but it actually didn't, the reviewer should be denounced.

Imagine if a reviewer reviewed Gears of War and described the main character as deep philosophical pacifist on a quest to make peace and friendship with his enemies... then yes gamers would have every right to denounce that reviewer for misrepresenting the game they reviewed.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Andante said:
Reviewers are PAID to do a good job and properly reviewing and representing what to expect in a game. If they do a horrible job then yes, they should be denounced.
Reviewers do a "good job" and "properly review" when they present their unfettered opinion, even if it runs contrary to the popular stance on a given product. Which is why, say, Tom Chick is a good reviewer, despite being batshit insane and having bizarro tastes. Because he's honest.

What pisses me off is every time an honest reviewer comes along who isn't afraid to give a popular title a drubbing because they didn't enjoy it, they get called a troll and everyone loses their fucking mind. People don't want honesty. They want their opinions validated. And when they aren't, they scream bloody murder.

All you've learned from this is you disagree with Greg and shouldn't use his reviews to guide your purchasing decisions. That's it.
 

Soviet Heavy

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This is the same argument I see thrown around by Evangelion fanatics (not all of them, mind you. CasualShinji is cool). "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE THESE CHARACTERS, THAT'S THE POINT ANY DISLIKE YOU HAVE OF THE SHOW WAS INTENTIONAL YOU IGNORANT FOOLS!"

Now, I like GTAV, and I hate Evangelion. Just because a show or game wants you to hate everybody in it doesn't make it immune from criticizing it for that very reason. Sure, I might be meant to hate everyone in Eva for being dysfunctional, incompetent assholes, but I'm still allowed to dislike a show and not find it good because everyone in Eva is a dysfunctional, incompetent asshole.

It's a weird, circular logic that fanboys use to deflect criticism, and I don't like it one bit.
 

Atmos Duality

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Good for you, but this forum isn't your personal LiveJournal.
Who you read and why has absolutely no bearing on me, or anyone else, nor should it.

Mods, please lock the thread.
 

LetalisK

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To be honest, I generally don't read the reviews here. Not because I have something against Escapist reviews, I just don't read reviews outside those meant for comedy(ie Yahtzee). So this whole GTA V has been quite the event for me. :D
 

Fappy

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BloatedGuppy said:
People don't want honesty. They want their opinions validated.
This is the sad truth. And people wonder why so many reviewers just parrot each other. It's safe! I don't always agree with Greg's reviews (DA 2 & GTA V being the biggest upsets), but I respect his resolve. It's got to be fucking hard going out there and voicing your contrary opinion in a very public way.

Game reviews are pointless if they lack sincerity, but sadly most people who read them are just--as you aptly put it--looking to validate their preconceived notions.
 

RJ 17

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Look, I disagreed with Greg's review of the game like a lot of people did...in fact, I often disagree with the reviews on this website. Doesn't mean I hold the position of the reviewers against them. A review is one person's opinion, the only difference between Greg and any random forum user on this site is that Greg gets paid to express his opinion while we're all just a bunch of random jackasses posting our opinions at random. The point is that just like every other opinion out there: you shouldn't let a reviewer's opinion color or shape your own. They express their thoughts on games/movies/books/whatever medium they're reviewing but it's up to each individual person to formulate their own opinion on each of those matters.

The point is there's no real reason you should really give a damn about what a reviewer says about a game that you like. Why? Because you already know that you like the game...so what if someone else doesn't? Are you going to prove to that person that they actually liked the game more than they did? We've all got different tastes, what worked for you clearly didn't work for Greg. And as with all opinion-based discussions: neither of you are wrong.
 

Casual Shinji

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I never read a review on the Escapist either (more of a video guy myself), no need to make an entire thread about. Not when there's a perfectly decent comments section below the actual review.
 

Parasondox

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Atmos Duality said:
Good for you, but this forum isn't your personal LiveJournal.
Who you read and why has absolutely no bearing on me, or anyone else, nor should it.

Mods, please lock the thread.
The guy is just expressing himself like everyone else does in forums. Thats why they are called forums. Relax and calling the mods to lock something is a bit childish. If YOU don't like it then leave it alone.
 

Zeckt

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Daystar Clarion said:
Man, I can taste the melodrama in the air.

You didn't agree with Greg's opinion, that's fine, but to swear off reading other reviews because of that?

Lol.

Lol I say.
To him the Escapist has lost all credibility, just like how people lose faith in companies who release shoddy products or release shock reviews to grab hits and attention to web sites. It's his right and I at least will give it a measure of respect especially after he gave constructive criticism.

I agree with ParsonOSX, there is absolutely no reason to lock this thread. If you don't like what you hear on a forum then stop reading, he has every right to post what he thinks.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Zeckt said:
...he has every right to post what he thinks.
Technically he doesn't have any "rights" at all. Whether or not the content is deemed appropriate for the forum is determined by the mods/Escapist staff. They do tend to get a bit fussed about posts that have "poor discussion value", and even more fussed about posts that are nakedly critical of site contributors. I wouldn't report it personally, but it wouldn't shock me if it got locked.

Zeckt said:
...release shock reviews to grab hits and attention to web sites.
Yeah, again, this really pisses me off. Why is it a "shock" review created to "grab hits and attention"? AAA game gets 10/10 or peeps be trollin'?