GTA V - Amnesty condemns torture scene

[Connor Lonske]

i haven't played the game (yet). however, i've heard so much about it i can guess from the get go this scene is probably designed to show the protagonist as bad people who aren't worth emphasizing to any sane man, along with everything else that happens in the game that they do.

i'd go on about what i'm deciphered out of this mess of an internet, but that's off topic. so instead i'll say what a lot of people in this thread are saying that played it. which is it probably depicts it as bad, and is super graphic to help convey that, not push the message it's good. that would serve a dual purpose. on one side of the spectrum, it will make people who aren't fuckin bonkers to go "wow, this is deep" and then the sadistic people will say, "lets go again. lets go again!"

also 99 percent sure mgsV will probably not have a scene as bad as GTAV, but it will probably set a equal or close statement on whatever it wants to convey about it.

 

[Mr Mystery Guest]

Spoiler! I'm going to have to not use this website until iv'e completed the game.

 

[Xzavion]

While I do not approve that there isn't something like an alternative way to handle that, so the game forcing players to complete that (at least if that really is the fact), I don't think it is any worse than stuff on movies.

Seriously I have seen movies with quite explicit torturing for questioning too. I have yet to see the same amount of alertness to movies than to games. Though you might say you only watch a movie and for the game you take action yourself, the argument with younger ones watching counts for everything else too.

 

[Poetic Nova]

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

Would be nice to allow to skip this part of the mission before it started while showing a message that it's not for everyone.

Fortunately, the mission has created enough attention and controversy already we can just google the mission name, and then choose to fail out of it as much as possible.

However, unless this ends up garnering a Jack Thompson sort of guy pushing his agenda, I don't think it will be censored or removed. But This does remind me of Spec: Ops, where the player is given the option to stop playing if they truly do not want to proceed. Not quite the same I know, but you do still have an option to avoid it in it's entirety, so if it's something you absolutely will not tolerate, you can choose to not play.

Maybe you can find a friend who can do it for you? A lot of my friends would be eager to play any part of the new GTA, having not bought it yet. And also aren't super squeamish like I am.

I will be doing the mission myself, I've seen enough controversial stuff in games already (Carmageddon for instance). I was thinking about the people who can't tollerate/stand this particular scene.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Shitting into your mouth is good because it teaches you that shitting into your mouth is bad.

...Shitting in your mouth is bad?!

All that trying, and for nothing. Humph.

 

[Caiphus]

Shitting into your mouth is good because it teaches you that shitting into your mouth is bad.

This surely should have been one of the parables told in the Bible. I'm astounded.

 

[josemlopes]

Havent played the game but arent the people doing the torture criminals (the player)?

How else was it to be expected of criminals when they need to extract information out of someone? There is nothing beyond that, no political statement on how accurate they can be and if they can be used or not because just from the get go we are the bad guys and what we are doing certainly isnt the "good" choice.

I totally believe that torture can work sometimes like I totally believe that I can win at russian roulette sometimes, if the guy does have something to hide he will probably tell it in the end and if he doesnt then a lot of bad information is going to come off his mouth. It worked in the GTA story (I think, havent played it) as it couldnt work, if the game had a lot more tortures and all of them worked great (a la 24) then that I could understand.

 

[Ty Woodard]

the fact people are debating this is extremely entertaining, more entertaining than the mild torture scene. All you do is pull the guy's tooth, or hold R2/L2 and watch him smoke for a sec with the jumper cables... it didn't even seem too funny since the guy wasn't even seizing. the waterboarding turned out to be the most fun thing to do. lol who would have thought, I always thought waterboarding wasn't a big deal and that people were a bunch of liberal pansies for banning it. It turns out they're just a bunch of complete idiots, since it may have actually worked at times.

Anyways, at the end you see that the guy was so panicked that he was just spitting anything out that he could think of and anything relevant he would have had to say he couldn't due to the panic and rushing of the 'tormentors'. It was a fine patriotic scene with a liberally soft & enlightening moment at the end. Everyone should be happy, even Trevor was, he actually let the guy go.

if you think Trevor is bad, you don't want to know what I would have done being gifted an undocumented and told to just make sure he disappears pretty much, let alone after said undocumented tells me that he has a family and where they live while I have his conditioned trust. There is money to be made there, and the ones not tradeable I could play 'pretend I'm a serial killer' with. bear in mind this all imaginary, don't have a cow and be so literal and spaztic.

This scene was very mild, by the way, I've seen plenty of feature films and even some tv shows with 'worse' scenes. if you can't handle it, this game offers you the option to skip both cutscenes as well as playable portions of missions that you're not cut out for. There's even an achievement for doing enough of it, it's the "Mouthbreathing Beatnick" achievement/trophy.

 

[vectormage]

An interesting article here about a mandatory torture scene in GTA V:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/18/grand-theft-auto-5-under-fire-for-graphic-torture-scene

What do you think? I have to say I'm with Amnesty here (apart from the obligatory 'children may see it' nonsense - seriously, why don't they get called out about that? You wouldn't let your 5-year old watch Scarface). I think it's pretty bad to not only put the player in the position of a torturing protagonist, but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

I stopped watching 24 after it started getting ridiculously torture-happy, and this pretty much decides me on not getting GTA V (not that I was particularly bothered in the first place, I've never enjoyed them much despite the amazing world-building)

@Flatfrog & Rockstar...I've been a huge fan of GTA and Rockstar ever since the very first one with the top down view on ps1 (I believe it was)! As much as I hate to say it, I must agree as well with Amnesty with regard to the 'mandatory player controlled torture scene'. The game in general is what it is...and watching a CG of that would have been accepted as the 'norm' for GTA at this stage of the game-no pun intended, but being forced to "DIY" the deed of torture was in this gamer's opinion "going just a bit too far".

It is indeed a 'mature' rated game which is known (and so successful) for its violence, sexual content and nudity but even the guys at Rockstar should be better judges of what's out of bounds! While previous versions had explicit content this one is by far the "King of the Hill"!! The warnings do not mention FULL FRONTAL NUDITY nor PLAYABLE GRAPHIC TORTURE VIOLENCE. They might as well have made the "paparazzi anal sex" scene and Trevor's opening sex scene playable as well! Add to that a stripper taking you "to her place" is TOTALLY CENSORED!!! WHAT THE HELL- Did the developer on THAT PORTION suddenly grow a conscience??

Interesting to have "torture" playable in such detail, but have only 1 strip club (when there were actually two in San Andreas) with FULLY CLOTHED strippers (unless you pay for a private dance)! Somewhere in the creation of this overall great game, somebody lost site of what really should (or shouldn't) be an ADDED OBSCENITY. Hell, even the hookers are more protected from violent actions in this one than in any previous version! Here's a hint - more nudity, not so bad - whether cut scene or player controlled; but over the top torture, glorified rape, child porn, incest, (and since animals are in the game now) beastiality.... that's kindof OFF LIMITS GUYS!!! Get a Grip!!

P.S. All that being said....I still love GTA and Rockstar, but make better choices on content guys!

 

[vectormage]

the fact people are debating this is extremely entertaining, more entertaining than the mild torture scene. if you think Trevor is bad, you don't want to know what I would have done being gifted an undocumented and told to just make sure he disappears pretty much, let alone after said undocumented tells me that he has a family and where they live while I have his conditioned trust.

This is a questionable response, not to mention it expresses strong racist undertone. You seem to be a troubled individual, the exact fuel for the arguments Amnesty and "liberals" are posing. That statement alone makes you a perfect candidate for psychiatric evaluation. Not meant as an insult, full respect for your freedom of speech - but that opinion is definitely suspect!

As for whether the torture was mild or not is not what I feel the concern or outrage is about. I feel it's more focused on the specificity and detail put into THAT portion as a PLAYABLE scene, versus say making the Helicopters a little easier to fly while SHOOTING at something! (Lord knows that needs adjustment) Just a thought...

 

[Saelune]

You're playing a bad guy. Hell, even PETA understood that with Overlord II's seal beating. "You're supposed to be evil, so clubbing seals is saying its an evil thing to do"

 

[Arina Love]

i enjoyed torture scene really highlights character of Trevor.

 

[Ty Woodard]

You're playing a bad guy. Hell, even PETA understood that with Overlord II's seal beating. "You're supposed to be evil, so clubbing seals is saying its an evil thing to do"

obviously you took what I wrote too seriously. it's a video game, meant to be crazy, and not so serious. it's like being able to interact with an over the top 80's action flick, that's what the games are to me. I don't have bodies in my basement. lol. not yet anyways. (don't take that seriously). If as you mentioned though in one of your posts, there is cp & bestiality (which I have not seen yet int he game, no sheep effing and the daughter is clearly a lazy stay-at-home 18 to 20er same with the son) then that is a bit over the top. unless the shiz is not shown, and even trevor beats down on somebody. and the bestiality would be hilarious if done like the stripper or ursala scenes, and not having the player involved in it only the sounds of happy rednecks. otherwise, a bit effed. I've yet to see either of that stuff in it, but if i do, that will have been pushing it unless there is relevance to the plot and some beatdowns involved possibly. when dealing with the government, the torture was exaggerated to lampoon all the war on terrorism stuff stuff. the nothing-gained-from-it at the end of the sequence was to excuse the player's involvement, sort of a GI JOE PBA of sorts, GTA Style.

 

[Addertellstales]

Snip

I think we've found our psychopath.

Anyway, not a lot of deep input from me, but... Everyone keeps saying you break his kneecaps. I could have sworn you swing the wrench into a far more delicate area that then bleeds horribly. Is this a difference in the UK version or am I misremembering?

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Snip

I think we've found our psychopath.

Anyway, not a lot of deep input from me, but... Everyone keeps saying you break his kneecaps. I could have sworn you swing the wrench into a far more delicate area that then bleeds horribly. Is this a difference in the UK version or am I misremembering?

Heh. I remember it being the leg, and I'm in the UK. Memory is funny. The article says "sledgehammer", I don't remember seeing a sledgehammer. Did I miss it? Or was it just not there?

What? The entire mission, the other characters are questioning how shaky the info is.

And then after, there's a little rant about how great and effective torture is by the crazy character which is so openly satirical and conveying to the (paying attention, thinking) player that its useless, that I feel like Amnesty are just making fun of us by suggesting otherwise.

I agree. I think the satire is obvious. As I remember it, the agents are willing to execute someone based on so little information that it even makes the career criminals uncomfortable (except for Trevor... obviously).

I agree that children shouldn't see this, but I don't think the satire misses the mark. I thought it was openly very damning of the whole process.

 

[SSJBlastoise]

The information wasn't reliable since it was just a vague description of a guy. For all I know, I shot the wrong person afterwards.

Well, assuming you followed the given descriptions of the guy you shoot the "correct" person, well the person who was named by the torture victim. This is because listening to the radio after the mission says "whatever his name was, was killed at a house party yesterday". While it doesn't mean you actually killed an enemy of the state you did technically kill the right guy, given the name.

Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

While I'm not 100% sure, I don't think you need to do all of the methods, you could choose the wrench (or whatever you believed to be the lowest impact method) for all the times needed if you are only squeamish about pulling out a tooth. This is just a guess though because I chose to use all of them to see what happened.

Amnesty International is pretty much like PETA: whatever they say, they do it for publicity. But they only choose easy targets that are already controversial anyway. Like video games.

I'm not sure if this is implying PETA don't do this but if it is, you're wrong. PETA made a pretty big fuss about Pokémon being a game about breeding animals to fight and only fight. They even made a game where the Pokémon end up fighting Ash and some other characters. I think they may have complained about the possibility of there being whaling in Assassin's Creed 4 (though, this one might have been people predicting PETA would).

Anyway, not a lot of deep input from me, but... Everyone keeps saying you break his kneecaps. I could have sworn you swing the wrench into a far more delicate area that then bleeds horribly. Is this a difference in the UK version or am I misremembering?

Heh. I remember it being the leg, and I'm in the UK. Memory is funny. The article says "sledgehammer", I don't remember seeing a sledgehammer. Did I miss it? Or was it just not there?

Seems like it changes where you hit depending on when you choose to do it. I remember hitting him in the groin and I looked it up and the video that came up showed Trevor hitting his arm.

OT: Seems like people are quick to make judgments without watching the whole mission or without context which certainly helps.

 

[SSJBlastoise]

Actually, I said that PETA and Amnesty are pretty alike in the way they work.

They only choose targets that are certain to gather attention and don't pose any risk for backlash.

Attacking video games and whale hunters is easy, there are no powerful lobbies that dissect their accusations. You can bash them like crazy and there's no risk an angry mob will riot in front of your headquarter.

Taking on barbaric religious slaughter rituals that consist of cutting the throats of fully concious animals and let them bleed to death hanging upside down would be something worth the time of people demanding the ethical treatment of animals. But they don't touch that topic with a stick because they'd have to deal with the jewish and islamic lobbies.

The persecution of christians and other religious minorities in the Middle East is no secret, yet Amnesty doesn't do shit about it. In fact they deny it even happens, despite thousands of videos and reports proving it. I guess taking on powerful theocratic countries isn't as easy than complaining about international terrorists not being cuddled enough in US prisons.

So yeah, these "organizations" are nothing but feel-good-clubs for wealthy people that want to calm their conscience.

Thought so, didn't mean to sound condescending or anything. I completely agree with you though. You can also just look at how PETA promote themselves, they always show the cute animals being hurt but I haven't really heard about them promoting ways to remove a snake or something from your backyard (though I don't really see PETA doing anything because there isn't much, if any, presence in Australia lol).

Anyway, seems like I just misinterpreted your first comment.

 

[orangeban]

I'm not really sure why Rockstar included that scene. I mean, it's probably going to ruin a lot of people's fun, right? You go from wacky zany antics to torture, that's pretty jarring. Rockstar is way too proud of their satire honestly.

 

[GoaThief]

but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

I've just come away from playing that scene, it's pretty shocking and brutal (my other half absolutely hated it and almost left the room) - but I didn't see the part where it's implied that the information obtained is reliable. The running joke was that the information was sketchy at best and directly afterwards even the player character who conducted the torture says as much and lets the man live even after he was ordered to kill him.

The double standard that gets me is the sex. If it were as graphic as the violence was I'd put a shedload of money on it being condemned to a greater degree by many more people.