(Gun Control) Is Self Defense the Same for Everyone?

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

So, I am going to sign up for another Shotgun course soon and I related that to a friend. This friend proceeded to say I'm becoming obsessed with my firearm and that I'm near becoming a gun nut. That if there's a problem, could I really deal with it as well as police.

I realized I only get this comment when it comes to firearms. No one bats an eye when I say I do Krav Maga. Of course I should. I'm a big strong man. If something goes down, everyone will look to me to protect them until proper help arrives.

But when I say I also want to use a firearm to protect myself, I'm fooling myself. I watched John Wick too many times. I'm never going to be as good as the police due to lack of training, and if they find out I train regularly... I'm secretly hoping for a break in so I can fulfill my murder fantasies.

But what I really want is to be able to protect myself. As some of you remember, I am not white. I was never raised with Police as protection. And during several times in my life, officers have shown themselves to suspect me for things I have nothing to do about.

And I see enough interaction with the police and my race to know that it has a very good chance of ending with "A terrible tragedy" if they are involved.

Straight out, I don't want to use a gun. Just like I don't want to use any emergency items (From food stores to my simple first aid box). And it's not like I'm walking around with a gun strapped to me. My shotguns are only because I have no place to run to in my bedroom at night.

I honestly have as much fear about cops as I do with criminals. Not all cops are bad. And not all cops are trigger happy. But I have as much chance as rolling a cop with an itchy trigger finger who didn't expect me walking out of a townhouse in a city where the population is affluent and 94% percent white as I do with a criminal who decided my place is the place.

So, other than personal perceptions, I ask people to pour over what's been happening with police officers and black men. Some shootings are just. Some are not. If you weren't in your part of the world and had to deal with the the perception of police that has been fostered over the last decade, what would you do about self defense?

 

[dreng3]

Well, you did just say "shotguns" plural, having more than one gun for self defense does seems kinda over the top. But then again, I'm white and I live in a very peaceful country with restrictive gun laws so I don't really have to concern myself with that kind of stuff.

I can add that while I was in the US I actually went to a gun range and it was entertaining to fire a gun, an amusing attempt at coordinating mind and body in order to make holes on a paper target.
I, for one, am not against gun ownership, just certain types of guns. You don't need handguns for anything but sport shooting, in which case it could be kept on the premises of your preferred range, or locked very safely away at home. Semi-automatic and fully automatic rifles and smgs make no sense to me, not really any sport in using those and there is no use for them beyond inflicting death or injury.

Bolt or pump action firearms can be used for hunting and skeet shooting so that seems fine, the bolt action can also be used for marksmanship/sport shooting, I guess.

On the topic of self defense. Yelling that you have a gun or having something that sounds and looks like a gun would usually do the trick, so I don't see any reason to have something that deadly at home.

However, even if I don't agree with your rationale I'd like to say this "Screw your friend". He or she doesn't have to meddle that much, you're an adult and if you haven't shown a pattern of unreasonable behaviour he or she should trust you. I have several blades and martial arts weapons lying around because I use them for sport and exercise, and none of my friends would ever judge me for that, because they know I'm not the type to misuse them in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Asita]

But when I say I also want to use a firearm to protect myself, I'm fooling myself. I watched John Wick too many times. I'm never going to be as good as the police due to lack of training, and if they find out I train regularly... I'm secretly hoping for a break in so I can fulfill my murder fantasies.

I mean, your friend's criticisms are pretty bog standard, to be honest. Think back to any of the "Second Amendment" discussions from the last few years. The idea that a "good guy with a gun" would by necessity stop mass shootings before the shooter could rack up a body count is frequently mocked with those same criticisms; that the speaker is working more off of Hollywood gunplay than anything realistic, that they're liable to make a bad situation worse due to their lack of training, and that ultimately it's little more than them salivating over the chance to be a hero (making them - by transitive property - a bit too eager to put their booger-hook on the bang-lever).

With that being said, I understand your reasons, and contextualizing your decision in that way does make you better than those in many of the aforementioned conversations. All I'm saying is that your friend's reaction is pretty easy to understand, regardless.

 

[Trunkage]

Yeah, comparing guns to Krav Magra is not a good comparison.

If you don't know how to Krav, you wont hurt everyone else. The opposite is true for guns

If Krav is like most martial arts, violence is placed absolutely dead last in options. That's not what a lot of gun nuts do. I know gun training in Australia promotes it as a last resort. Likely, its similar in the US. But we don't have people here thinking and promoting guns as a Saviour

Krav involves at least weekly training. Gun lessons should be similar. I think Sweden (or some other Nordic country) has loose gun restrictions but mandatory lessons every month for owners

Krav is also about building you up mentally and emotionally. So you dont fell scared all the time. A typical gun nut is super scared of everything and that's how minorities get shot

Also, lastly, I think it might be a terrible idea for you to help in a situation. Remember that good guy with a gun but happened to be black story last year? The police are just going to assume your bad if you pull a gun out and then you're dead

 

[Agema]

I remember reading somewhere about armoured warfare and how to prevent tanks being destroyed. The first practical measure to take was not getting involved in a war.

Thus one might argue that the first step to self-protection is taking oneself out of risk of danger. In which case moving from the USA to Canada is probably a great deal more productive than guns or krav maga.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Well, you did just say "shotguns" plural, having more than one gun for self defense does seems kinda over the top.

That's just my way. I have multiple of things I use. I have 3 solar ovens, and 2 hybrid solar ovens. I have 2 emergency TVs. 4 solar panels, etc.

If I find a shirt I like, I buy multiple in case I ruin it. I buy physical editions of games I like after get it first digitally. I have three external drives of my data.

I wanted to take time to talk about this as it does strike to the heart of the situation. If you don't know that aspect of me, you can easily think the worst. That I am secretly a gun nut and I'm trying to explain it away.

The reality is I bought two of the same shotgun at the same time in 2016. Once I made sure both work, I cleaned the second and stored it away.

But when I say I also want to use a firearm to protect myself, I'm fooling myself. I watched John Wick too many times. I'm never going to be as good as the police due to lack of training, and if they find out I train regularly... I'm secretly hoping for a break in so I can fulfill my murder fantasies.

I mean, your friend's criticisms are pretty bog standard, to be honest. Think back to any of the "Second Amendment" discussions from the last few years. The idea that a "good guy with a gun" would by necessity stop mass shootings before the shooter could rack up a body count is frequently mocked with those same criticisms; that the speaker is working more off of Hollywood gunplay than anything realistic, that they're liable to make a bad situation worse due to their lack of training, and that ultimately it's little more than them salivating over the chance to be a hero (making them - by transitive property - a bit too eager to put their booger-hook on the bang-lever).

With that being said, I understand your reasons, and contextualizing your decision in that way does make you better than those in many of the aforementioned conversations. All I'm saying is that your friend's reaction is pretty easy to understand, regardless.

But that's the issue, isn't it? It IS standard. It's not taking time to listen to my point of view, it's a visceral reaction to the subject at hand. Not of me. Not of my rational.

I mean, we're talking about individuals. In this instance, myself vs these second amendment guys you're talking about. In reality, you've heard far more from me than any of those guys. My stance on unprovoked violence is known. Needless war, abuse of power, and other subjects like that.

Why must I be weighed against those people when I've acted as an individual with his own mind this entire time? There are people I dislike in this very forum. I never cursed them out or anything. I handle the situation with decorum everytime.

This is what amazes me. It really doesn't matter who i am, how I've been... the second it is discovered I own firearms, that seems to color perceptions of me more than my actual behavior to some.

Yeah, comparing guns to Krav Magra is not a good comparison.

If you don't know how to Krav, you wont hurt everyone else. The opposite is true for guns

If Krav is like most martial arts, violence is placed absolutely dead last in options. That's not what a lot of gun nuts do. I know gun training in Australia promotes it as a last resort. Likely, its similar in the US. But we don't have people here thinking and promoting guns as a Saviour

Krav involves at least weekly training. Gun lessons should be similar. I think Sweden (or some other Nordic country) has loose gun restrictions but mandatory lessons every month for owners

Krav is also about building you up mentally and emotionally. So you dont fell scared all the time. A typical gun nut is super scared of everything and that's how minorities get shot

Also, lastly, I think it might be a terrible idea for you to help in a situation. Remember that good guy with a gun but happened to be black story last year? The police are just going to assume your bad if you pull a gun out and then you're dead

Ok, but I didn't compare them in terms of of severity or effectiveness. I'm stating they are both self defense. The reason I involve myself in both is to keep myself alive.

Just like I attempt to run every day for twenty minutes. I hate running for cardio, but every escape plan will involve running.

And by the way, you're doing it as well. When the conversation goes to guns, we always have to bring it back to the worst part of firearm owners. The gun nut.

I am not one.

And yes, physical fighting can easily hurt other people who weren't intended to be apart of the fight. Those videos of people catching punches not meant for them are wildly popular.

Do you know why I don't go for weekly training? I don't want to seem like a gun nut. Kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation.

And I don't have a handgun. I'm also not law enforcement. I would actually be a hindrance if I tried to help an arrest. I'm not the law because I have a firearm. No one should believe they are.

 

[CaitSeith]

When I was a kid, my dad got shot on the face when a gang stole his car. He was really lucky to survive (the bullet went through his lower jaw and exited through his left cheek). Would had things been different if he had been carrying a gun? He never saw theirs until it was too late, so had he tried to reach for his, he would had been shot anyways.

It's impossible for me to give you an answer that doesn't have my personal perception on the matter. Sorry.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

When I was a kid, my dad got shot on the face when a gang stole his car. He was really lucky to survive (the bullet went through his lower jaw and exited through his left cheek). Would had things been different if he had been carrying a gun? He never saw theirs until it was too late, so had he tried to reach for his, he would had been shot anyways.

It's impossible for me to give you an answer that doesn't have my personal perception on the matter. Sorry.

These are things that should never be in social consciousness, let alone a kid having to try to grasp a tragedy like that. Honestly, it might seem out of place, but my condolences and happiness that it didn't turn out worse than it already was.

I don't like surmising a situation like this, so I won't. I don't consider it necessary to have a gun in real life because keeping my head on a swivel has saved my life more times than I could count. The drive-bys I've been in, the attempts of mugging, fights I noped my way out of. It's always seemed smarter and safer just to find a way to escape back home.

There's no need for sorry. We all react to the situations that make us who we are in the way that makes more sense to us. But I do sincerely thank you for sharing such a seriously personal part of your life to help us see your viewpoint.

 

[SupahEwok]

You talk more about fearing the police than criminal violence.

How will displaying a gun to the police, or shooting it at them, make them less likely to shoot you?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

You talk more about fearing the police than criminal violence.

How will displaying a gun to the police, or shooting it at them, make them less likely to shoot you?

So, this is a prime example of someone not listening to me and just foisting their prejudgments on me. Thank you for this.

To go to what I actually said.

I honestly have as much fear about cops as I do with criminals. Not all cops are bad. And not all cops are trigger happy. But I have as much chance as rolling a cop with an itchy trigger finger who didn't expect me walking out of a townhouse in a city where the population is affluent and 94% percent white as I do with a criminal who decided my place is the place.

Also, can you point out the sentence where I said I'm getting into armed conflict with Police Officers? That I'm going to wave my firearm around them? I actually said that I hope I never had to use my gun, and you're asking me about displaying it or shooting at them? Really?

The most I ever said is that interaction with Police and my race normally turns out to be a 'terrible tragedy'. That doesn't even have me completely in the scenario, but stating what has happened in the history of my race and law enforcement. More over:

Straight out, I don't want to use a gun. Just like I don't want to use any emergency items (From food stores to my simple first aid box). And it's not like I'm walking around with a gun strapped to me. My shotguns are only because I have no place to run to in my bedroom at night.

I don't want to use a gun. I don't carry guns around with me. They are only for if I'm trapped in my bedroom at night.

... and from that, you get that there's a likelihood that I'm going to be shooting at cops. Ok.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Hey, Double Post! Don't see those around that much any more.

 

[SupahEwok]

So, I am going to sign up for another Shotgun course soon and I related that to a friend. This friend proceeded to say I'm becoming obsessed with my firearm and that I'm near becoming a gun nut. That if there's a problem, could I really deal with it as well as police.

I realized I only get this comment when it comes to firearms. No one bats an eye when I say I do Krav Maga. Of course I should. I'm a big strong man. If something goes down, everyone will look to me to protect them until proper help arrives.

But when I say I also want to use a firearm to protect myself, I'm fooling myself. I watched John Wick too many times. I'm never going to be as good as the police due to lack of training, and if they find out I train regularly... I'm secretly hoping for a break in so I can fulfill my murder fantasies.

But what I really want is to be able to protect myself. As some of you remember, I am not white. I was never raised with Police as protection. And during several times in my life, officers have shown themselves to suspect me for things I have nothing to do about.

And I see enough interaction with the police and my race to know that it has a very good chance of ending with "A terrible tragedy" if they are involved.

Straight out, I don't want to use a gun. Just like I don't want to use any emergency items (From food stores to my simple first aid box). And it's not like I'm walking around with a gun strapped to me. My shotguns are only because I have no place to run to in my bedroom at night.

I honestly have as much fear about cops as I do with criminals. Not all cops are bad. And not all cops are trigger happy. But I have as much chance as rolling a cop with an itchy trigger finger who didn't expect me walking out of a townhouse in a city where the population is affluent and 94% percent white as I do with a criminal who decided my place is the place.

So, other than personal perceptions, I ask people to pour over what's been happening with police officers and black men. Some shootings are just. Some are not. If you weren't in your part of the world and had to deal with the the perception of police that has been fostered over the last decade, what would you do about self defense?

Silly me, with the judging (and there's no pre- about it, by the by). You tell me, what is the point of bringing up how likely it is that the police will shoot you (several times) in an OP about gun self-defense if you aren't trying to protect yourself from them? Even when you talk about just defending your home, you bring up a police response rather than criminal activity. I can see where you can be coming from a position that you don't think the police will do an adequate job of protecting you, so you just don't want them involved if at all possible... but when you bring up fear of being shot by the police disproportionately more than fear of criminal invasion, fuck me if I can't read between the lines even if you can't yourself.

And heaven forbid I remember you're the Escapist's premier police minority shooting poster, always talking about your fear of the police shooting you for being black.

If you want to know why your friend might think you're a gun nut, it's because that's gun nut talk. Gun nut is more than protecting yourself from criminals. It's about protecting yourself from authority. That's their justification for 2nd amendment fanaticism. It is the defining ideological backing (if you want to dress it up that far) for the NRA band, far more than hunting, defense against trespassing, or gun collection.

If you don't want to be thought of that way, don't talk and think that way.

Also, being honest, in a home invasion scenario, that training you're doing doesn't really mean much. I think I recall you saying you lived in NYC (even if not, you're single and live in a heavily urban area), so I'm gonna assume you're in an apartment. Provided you are even able to reach your shotgun in time, you'll be at such close range in an enclosed space that only the bare minimum of aiming will be required, and that's if the trespasser doesn't just fuck off when seeing the gun. In such a scenario, nerves and the willingness to pull the trigger (basically, how you deal with adrenaline) will be the real test, which is not something that aiming practice and roleplaying through some home defense scenarios is gonna help much with. You'd be better off saving money and time.

Now, here's my real soapbox that you're free to disregard. From my reading of your posts on here, you seem like you have problems with anxiety. The worst anxieties have a base of real fear, which lets your imagination justify fastening onto them and playing them up in your mind. Part rationality, part irrationality. The ***** of that is that you can't rationally fight the irrational part. My original question was meant to point out that fallacy: your bigger anxiety is police response. How will bringing guns into that scenario improve it? It can't; the best it could do would be to let you shoot a police officer that's trying to shoot you, and even that fucks you when more arrive. No matter how much prepping you do, you will never feel like it's enough in the face of the latest shooting/home invasion on the news. The only way to win is not to play. You seem like you've taken all the reasonable steps for self defense, more than 90% of the population does. At some point, you have to know what's enough and let it rest. Take the money and time you save and spend it on a weekend playing cards with family and friends or something. When anxiety locks me into a fetal position, the only thing that brings me out of it is to shift my focus, get some quality life time in, and remember that I've got stuff to live for, and I'll work through my current problems one way or the other.

'Course, as I recall you've been talking about moving to Canada for at least a year, now, talking about it like it's your Zion. Beats me that if you go through the trouble and expense of moving, you don't just move to someplace else in the US where you don't have to worry about those driveby shootings and fights and whatever else you say you've been in, but you do you.

 

[Thaluikhain]

While I support gun control on a societal level, I can't say I blame (sensible) gun owners (in the US) on a personal level. Emphasis on sensible, though, plenty of wannabe heroes shoot themselves or their kids.

Moving to Canada will just work better, though.

 

[Kwak]

It seems it would make sense, in the mindset of 'get good at gun defense just in case', to choose one gun model and stick to it; learn and know it intimately. Even a second one of the same model will have differences in behaviour (I assume).

A shotgun don't seem real practical. Wouldn't the ideal be one you can safely carry unobtrusively at all times?

 

[Thaluikhain]

It seems it would make sense, in the mindset of 'get good at gun defense just in case', to choose one gun model and stick to it; learn and know it intimately. Even a second one of the same model will have differences in behaviour (I assume).

A shotgun don't seem real practical. Wouldn't the ideal be one you can safely carry unobtrusively at all times?

While I'm not an expert, shotguns have advantages (notably, very tolerant of user error and ammunition), and the legality of carrying a weapon around varies from place to place.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

It seems it would make sense, in the mindset of 'get good at gun defense just in case', to choose one gun model and stick to it; learn and know it intimately. Even a second one of the same model will have differences in behaviour (I assume).

A shotgun don't seem real practical. Wouldn't the ideal be one you can safely carry unobtrusively at all times?

Well, I actually don't want a gun around me at all times. As Firearms are epitome of a last resort to me. If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, right? My duty when I'm out and about is to escape with my loved ones. I'm not out there to dole out justice in behest of the actual Law Enforcement. I'm just trying to get home.

A shotgun is more practical for me than anything else at home. Less Lethal ammo is more plentiful for shotguns. Rubber Shells have less lethality than regular ammo. But in truth, they still carry the capability of serious, permanent injury and also death. While shot placement is always of high importance, it's even more so now when you are trying not to kill someone, but just get them out of your house.

I haven't tried Shotgun Pepper Spray Shells, but the word on the street is that it's so hard to air out your home. But that's worth keeping someone alive.

Silly me, with the judging (and there's no pre- about it, by the by). You tell me, what is the point of bringing up how likely it is that the police will shoot you (several times) in an OP about gun self-defense if you aren't trying to protect yourself from them? Even when you talk about just defending your home, you bring up a police response rather than criminal activity. I can see where you can be coming from a position that you don't think the police will do an adequate job of protecting you, so you just don't want them involved if at all possible... but when you bring up fear of being shot by the police disproportionately more than fear of criminal invasion, fuck me if I can't read between the lines even if you can't yourself.

And heaven forbid I remember you're the Escapist's premier police minority shooting poster, always talking about your fear of the police shooting you for being black.

If you want to know why your friend might think you're a gun nut, it's because that's gun nut talk. Gun nut is more than protecting yourself from criminals. It's about protecting yourself from authority. That's their justification for 2nd amendment fanaticism. It is the defining ideological backing (if you want to dress it up that far) for the NRA band, far more than hunting, defense against trespassing, or gun collection.

If you don't want to be thought of that way, don't talk and think that way.

Also, being honest, in a home invasion scenario, that training you're doing doesn't really mean much. I think I recall you saying you lived in NYC (even if not, you're single and live in a heavily urban area), so I'm gonna assume you're in an apartment. Provided you are even able to reach your shotgun in time, you'll be at such close range in an enclosed space that only the bare minimum of aiming will be required, and that's if the trespasser doesn't just fuck off when seeing the gun. In such a scenario, nerves and the willingness to pull the trigger (basically, how you deal with adrenaline) will be the real test, which is not something that aiming practice and roleplaying through some home defense scenarios is gonna help much with. You'd be better off saving money and time.

Now, here's my real soapbox that you're free to disregard. From my reading of your posts on here, you seem like you have problems with anxiety. The worst anxieties have a base of real fear, which lets your imagination justify fastening onto them and playing them up in your mind. Part rationality, part irrationality. The ***** of that is that you can't rationally fight the irrational part. My original question was meant to point out that fallacy: your bigger anxiety is police response. How will bringing guns into that scenario improve it? It can't; the best it could do would be to let you shoot a police officer that's trying to shoot you, and even that fucks you when more arrive. No matter how much prepping you do, you will never feel like it's enough in the face of the latest shooting/home invasion on the news. The only way to win is not to play. You seem like you've taken all the reasonable steps for self defense, more than 90% of the population does. At some point, you have to know what's enough and let it rest. Take the money and time you save and spend it on a weekend playing cards with family and friends or something. When anxiety locks me into a fetal position, the only thing that brings me out of it is to shift my focus, get some quality life time in, and remember that I've got stuff to live for, and I'll work through my current problems one way or the other.

'Course, as I recall you've been talking about moving to Canada for at least a year, now, talking about it like it's your Zion. Beats me that if you go through the trouble and expense of moving, you don't just move to someplace else in the US where you don't have to worry about those driveby shootings and fights and whatever else you say you've been in, but you do you.

Because as I said... I'm not likely to call them for my protection. As I never saw Police to be there for my protection. That's actually a common thing for black folks [https://psmag.com/social-justice/why-black-america-fears-the-police].

That's literally it. Most black children were raised in believing that we have to respect the police officers, follow the law and make sure people see you follow the law, and "have receipts". But the ultimate responsibility of your own life falls on your shoulders. I'm not saying I wish to fight police officers because I and my race have had a rocky relationship (and of course, not with all officers), I'm saying while I respect Law Enforcement, the first line of defense falls to me.

Honestly, a lot of this comes from your personal biases towards me. And that's fine. Without being insulting, I literally do not care what you think of me. But instead of what I was actually asking, you put all of your thoughts and ideas of who I am and took what I HAD to mean instead of what was there.

I bring up subjects that matter to me just as much as everyone else. And I talk about matters as well. Most of my time in Current Events is actually based on talking about Trump and the cult. Why am I not a Trump reporter? I discuss a lot of other matters here, but I mention the situations I see in the news that I do not see anyone else speaking about. If someone already discussed it, fine, I can talk about it in their thread.

Other people aren't talking about it. I discuss it. It's the Current Events Forum. It's what it's designed for.

The point might be made a bit better if I only speak in those topics. That might make more sense to call me the 'reporter'. But if you see the actual comments I make in this forum versus the threads I put up, it's not even close. I talk about Trump and the Cult way more that anything else in these entire forums. We have a search engine, you can look that up for yourself. But hey, I'll help.

Cops Kill an Unarmed 16 year old Boy who was running away, label it as a good shoot [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057507-Cops-kill-an-unarmed-16-year-old-boy-who-was-running-away-label-it-a-good-shoot]: 4 posts

Police attack an Undercover Cop, Discovered Texts show they were looking for Violence [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057383-Politics-Police-attack-an-Undercover-Cop-discovered-Texts-show-they-were-looking-for-Violence]: 2 posts

Another Reason Why Eye Witnesses are meaningless, Police Use Photoshop [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057353-Politics-Another-reason-why-Eye-Witnesses-are-meaningless-Police-Use-Photoshop]: 3 posts. I struggled if I was going to put this on, because really police do this for almost everyone. This isn't a strict thing done to only Minorities. But I figured why not?

By the way, that's three (ish) subjects that directly have to deal with Police and Minority involvement in span of seven months. I'm doing a horrible job as a reporter. However, we see this.

The 45th is the Fourth US President to officially Face Impeachment [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057600-the-45th-is-The-Fourth-US-President-to-officially-Face-Impeachment?page=1]: 15 posts

In one thread, I talk about Trump and his policies (and the cult) more than I have talked about Police and Minority interactions in an entire seven month period. I have talked about other things, started other threads... Hell, I've officially started twice as more topics about Trump, his policies, and his cult than I've talked about Police and minority interaction.

Trump is officially Impeached [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057600-the-45th-is-The-Fourth-US-President-to-officially-Face-Impeachment], Fair Election Possible? [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057642-Can-Americans-Expect-a-Fair-Election], Trump challenging Civil Right Law [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057545-Comcast-backed-by-Trumps-adminstration-is-seeking-to-challenge-a-Civil-Rights-law-from-1866], Fallout of Impeachment [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057503-The-Fallout-of-the-Impeachment-of-the-45th], Repeating the Mujahideen Mistakes [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057476-Repeating-the-Mujahideen-Mistakes-with-the-Kurds-and-Syria-Turkey-attacks-after-US-withrdaws], Trump's Civil War Tweets [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057458-Trump-is-close-to-inciting-Horrific-Violence-Civil-War-Tweets], Trump Loyalist berates staff [https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/707.1057327-Politics-Trump-Loyalists-in-International-Organization-berates-punishes-Staff-deemed-Disloyal]

So this is what it gets back to. Perceptions. You have a perception of me. People have perceptions of Gun owners. You tell me about me, but you don't even have an accurate view of me. Which is what I'm getting a lot of gun owners get. I mean, we can't even talk about them without calling them Gun nuts. The Knee Jerk response is to always lump Gun owners with the dregs of their culture.

Despise 'the gun nut' all you want. But realize not everyone who has a gun is a gun nut. If you want to see what I actually go nuts over, go to the gaming forum and see how I talk about the Switch. That's something I'm actually head over heels for. See how I talk about PSVR. Those things take up more of my waking thoughts than almost anything else.

Oh, and by the way, my friend wanted me to go to the mall with her because her boyfriend bailed. I only brought up going to the class because that's what I was doing with my time which prevented me from being able to go. I actually try not to talk about it too much because she doesn't like guns. But I wanted to tell her the truth of why I couldn't go.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

Is the question how to get anti-gun people to not dismiss your pro-gun/self defense arguments or whether or not your arguments should be viewed differently because you are black? The OP seems to start with you being annoyed at being dismissed as a gun nut but then turns into a rant about not trusting cops because you are black. Are we supposed to be discussing how to convince someone to not be dismissive of viewpoints they don't agree with or neccesarily understand, or evaluating whether this is an appropriate topic to bring in race as a justification for your views?

EDIT: I hope the above doesn't come across as dismissive. I'm always forgetting that text can rob a lot of nuance and intent from communication and people on the internet don't tend to read things with a charitable mindset. I'll try again. Are you looking to vet potential counterarguments for anti-gun people or discuss why race may make different people view the concept of self defense differently?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Is the question how to get anti-gun people to not dismiss your pro-gun/self defense arguments or whether or not your arguments should be viewed differently because you are black? The OP seems to start with you being annoyed at being dismissed as a gun nut but then turns into a rant about not trusting cops because you are black. Are we supposed to be discussing how to convince someone to not be dismissive of viewpoints they don't agree with or neccesarily understand, or evaluating whether this is an appropriate topic to bring in race as a justification for your views?

EDIT: I hope the above doesn't come across as dismissive. I'm always forgetting that text can rob a lot of nuance and intent from communication and people on the internet don't tend to read things with a charitable mindset. I'll try again. Are you looking to vet potential counterarguments for anti-gun people or discuss why race may make different people view the concept of self defense differently?

Thanks for the clarification. Actually, I am talking about the police as it's usually suggested as an alternative or even better option than owning a firearm.

It has not been my experience that it is the case, and I explained why. And yes, it is tied to my race. Both historically and in my actual personal life.

I own a firearm for nothing other than a last ditch effort at home. Involving the police... it's hard for me to come up with a scenario that doing so will enhance my safety. So I'm left with finding other options.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

Is the question how to get anti-gun people to not dismiss your pro-gun/self defense arguments or whether or not your arguments should be viewed differently because you are black? The OP seems to start with you being annoyed at being dismissed as a gun nut but then turns into a rant about not trusting cops because you are black. Are we supposed to be discussing how to convince someone to not be dismissive of viewpoints they don't agree with or neccesarily understand, or evaluating whether this is an appropriate topic to bring in race as a justification for your views?

EDIT: I hope the above doesn't come across as dismissive. I'm always forgetting that text can rob a lot of nuance and intent from communication and people on the internet don't tend to read things with a charitable mindset. I'll try again. Are you looking to vet potential counterarguments for anti-gun people or discuss why race may make different people view the concept of self defense differently?

Thanks for the clarification. Actually, I am talking about the police as it's usually suggested as an alternative or even better option than owning a firearm.

It has not been my experience that it is the case, and I explained why. And yes, it is tied to my race. Both historically and in my actual personal life.

I own a firearm for nothing other than a last ditch effort at home. Involving the police... it's hard for me to come up with a scenario that doing so will enhance my safety. So I'm left with finding other options.

Usually gun rights advocates use the more pragmatic "the time it takes for a home invader to do harm to me and my loved ones is significantly shorter than the time it takes the police to respond to a 911 call" argument rather than a "I don't trust the cops because of racial history" argument, but the former has been falling on deaf ears for years. Apparently there can only be two all encompassing sets of beliefs now and the anti-gun stuff is usually lumped in with the police prejudice stuff so maybe your way will gain more traction. At least the topic isn't women's self defense where you get those bizarre "Women shouldn't have to defend themselves, criminals just shouldn't do crime" arguments.

Though I will say if you do ever find yourself in a situation where you need to use a gun to defend yourself,even if you don't need to fire a shot, you absolutely should get the police involved, even if only after the fact.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Usually gun rights advocates use the more pragmatic "the time it takes for a home invader to do harm to me and my loved ones is significantly shorter than the time it takes the police to respond to a 911 call" argument rather than a "I don't trust the cops because of racial history" argument, but the former has been falling on deaf ears for years. Apparently there can only be two all encompassing sets of beliefs now and the anti-gun stuff is usually lumped in with the police prejudice stuff so maybe your way will gain more traction. At least the topic isn't women's self defense where you get those bizarre "Women shouldn't have to defend themselves, criminals just shouldn't do crime" arguments.

Though I will say if you do ever find yourself in a situation where you need to use a gun to defend yourself,even if you don't need to fire a shot, you absolutely should get the police involved, even if only after the fact.

I'll take it under advisement, but I have to weigh it against police actions [https://newsone.com/playlist/black-men-boy-who-were-killed-by-police/item/2]