Guy who filmed gay roomate with man, caused suicide, Found guilty

[Pebkio]

Did he:
Use it to blackmail the roommate?
Keep the roommate from getting jobs?
Use it to incite violence against the roommate?

If the answer is no to all of those, then I doubt it was a hate-crime. I agree with the invasion of privacy bit, though. Consent, most probably, was not given.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

They did everything but literally throw the damn book at him.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

That doesn't sound like justice to me. I don't think non-violent offenses should be possible to be charged as "hate crimes." There is a big difference between embarrassment and violence. Nobody should get 10 years in jail for embarrassing someone.

Exactly. The message I'm getting here is "If your roommate is gay, you better be damn sure you allow him to have sex with a stranger in your room or face jail time." The actual details make the narrative of "bullying to suicide" seem pretty ridiculous. Clementi came out to his parents before he went to school. His friends were aware. He and his "partner" were aware the webcam was left on, and during their second encounter (the one where Ravi invited people to watch in the next room through ichat) the friend covered up the camera. The roommate put homophobic statements on his twitter, but Clementi also said racist things about his roommate. Even though they didn't like each other and he was "homophobic," Ravi still let his roommate use the room to have sex. Eventually, Ravi even apologized to Clementi. Then Clementi jumped off a bridge.

Believe me, I really really really want to be on the side of the gay kid who commits suicide, but the more I learn about the case, the more difficult it becomes. He sounds like a selfish child. The only reason this is even a case is because of Ravi's sexual orientation and not Clementi's, New Jersey discrimination law, and the media.

Here's my narrative, which I feel is just as valid. Gay kid makes his first step to adulthood by moving out and going to college, announces his sexuality, and loses his virginity. He finds out that college sucks (which it does), roommates suck (which they do), and sex is not inextricably connected to love. These are hard facts to learn. Sometimes people jump off of bridges.

 

[AwesomeDave]

I'm gonna come off sounding like a dick here, but so be it, I gotta say it.

If you are so embarrassed about something that you would kill yourself rather than be exposed... maybe you should re-evaluate what you are doing. Was this guy 100% homosexual, or just experimenting with men in college and didn't want it to get out? If he is gay, he should be proud of who he is, not ashamed and scared and hiding... Honestly, most of the people I know (and I live in a small rural town) wouldn't care if someone was gay, people have a lot more pressing concerns these days.

Also, If you don't have some proven incurable terminal disease, then I have no sympathy for you if you commit suicide. Sure it sucks that someone died, but don't expect people to feel sympathetic towards you for opting out. Lot of people in this world have it a lot worse than someone who's biggest concern is coming out of the closet.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

I'm gonna come off sounding like a dick here, but so be it, I gotta say it.

If you are so embarrassed about something that you would kill yourself rather than be exposed... maybe you should re-evaluate what you are doing. Was this guy 100% homosexual, or just experimenting with men in college and didn't want it to get out? If he is gay, he should be proud of who he is, not ashamed and scared and hiding... Honestly, most of the people I know (and I live in a small rural town) wouldn't care if someone was gay, people have a lot more pressing concerns these days.

Also, If you don't have some proven incurable terminal disease, then I have no sympathy for you if you commit suicide. Sure it sucks that someone died, but don't expect people to feel sympathetic towards you for opting out. Lot of people in this world have it a lot worse than someone who's biggest concern is coming out of the closet.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for expressing this opinion. I have thought this more and more lately. This dude had ALREADY come out to his parents and they accepted it and loved their son and he still killed himself. It's a horrible thing to do to a family that loves you. Not only that, but his death probably helped inspire a lot of other suicides because it got so much press and seemed like such a good way to "show them" and get people in trouble.

You know what made me want to kill myself when I was in college? Not getting to have sex at all with anybody ever. You don't know personal shame until you're a 20-something virgin who has to walk past the cutesy safe sex kiosk (with the funny T shirts and free condoms) on the way to class, blasting Van Halen every day, while the girl manning the booth just stares you down knowing full well you aren't getting any. I feel little pity for the individual who gets to experience crazy college dorm room sex, be it with a man or woman. I'm beginning to doubt this kid really was gay and that maybe he felt he had made a huge mistake by having sex with a man. But I wasn't there. I do not know.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

So basically what you are saying is that the irrational hatred and willingness of homophobes to engage in anything from political lobbying to exclude and marginalise homosexuals, bullying to hatecrimes, is the problem of the victims?

That's like saying a rape occured because the victim wasn't wearing a veil.

No, he's saying people who kill themselves are responsible for their own actions. Which they are. It does not matter what crimes and wrongs you feel society levels against gay people. When they jump off bridges, it's their own doing. Lots and lots and lots of gay people don't kill themselves, regardless of all of those things that you mention. Being gay is still fun.

 

[lacktheknack]

A US student who used a webcam to secretly film his room-mate in a gay encounter has been found guilty of a hate crime and invasion of privacy.

Former Rutgers University undergraduate Dharun Ravi, 20, shook his head as the verdict was returned at a court in the state of New Jersey.

His room-mate, Tyler Clementi, jumped to his death from a bridge in 2010.

The case attracted national attention, including comment from President Obama, and prompted anti-bullying measures.

Ravi was found guilty of 15 counts as a whole, including invasion of privacy and bias intimidation, which is a hate crime.

He was found not guilty of several subparts of the bias intimidation charges.

While Ravi was not charged in connection with Clementi's death, which occurred shortly after the spying, the suicide was mentioned by witnesses during the trial.

He will be sentenced on 21 May and could face up to 10 years in jail and possible deportation to India - although he has lived in the US legally since he was a young boy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17406173

Maybe this will make some bullies (of all kinds) think twice about what they're doing, especially if it'll ruin their life.

How the fuck do you cause one to commit suicide? Did Ravi put a gun to kids head and force him to jump off the bridge?

You can't force anyone to commit suicide, cause if you did IT WOULDN'T BE SUICIDE! For fucks sake.

And it's fucked up we're charging a man over a simple college prank gone wrong. Beware everyone, youre hijinks mean jail time if someone is the least bit over-sensitive.

He's not being charged for causing the suicide, read the damned article. He's being charged for a whackload of other crimes his "college prank" involved.

 

[lacktheknack]

Invasion of privacy, yes.
Hate crime, no.
Idiotic prank gone horribly wrong.
Case closed.

Look two posts up from yours.

 

[DoctorSun]

Invasion of privacy, yes.
Hate crime, no.
Idiotic prank gone horribly wrong.
Case closed.

Look two posts up from yours.

Whoops, didn't see that. Must have posted that at the same time.

 

[balanovich]

We don't have the tweets and we don't know why he did it....
Invasion of privacy, sure. But hate crime ?? I don't know.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

No, he's saying people who kill themselves are responsible for their own actions. Which they are. It does not matter what crimes and wrongs you feel society levels against gay people. When they jump off bridges, it's their own doing.

So when I put a gun to someone's head and tell them jump off a high building, I'm no murderer when they jump?

If an analogy has more holes than obvious consistancies, you probably shouldn't use it.

I don't know entirely what to make of this. My gut feeling is that both of these kids suck. I don't think you can pin Clementi's death on Ravi, because it seems like such an inappropriate response. There had to be a multitude of other things happening conspiring to achieve this outcome, or Clementi is just ridiculous.

I also think 10 years would be harsh.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

So when I put a gun to someone's head and tell them jump off a high building, I'm no murderer when they jump?

Point is he pulled something that ruined someone's life, and someone died as a result. Now he's getting confronted with the consequences of that, in a mercifull way considering they're not charging him with directly causing the suicide.

A more rigid alternative would be to hold everyone who contributed to the anti-homosexual sentiment around the victim responsible for his death. That's how it ussually goes when people die because of others, so it's already a gift they've not pursued that.

That's not at all what happened. He set up an ichat in the next room to see what they were doing. For himself. Then he tweeted about it. He invited a girlfriend to watch and the guy in the next room covered up the camera. The kid had already come out to his parents and found another person to have sex with, so it's not like it was some big secret. He wasn't "outed."

If that "ruins" your life, you probably have some other problems. Probably. I don't know.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I don't really know the whole situation.
But was this gay roommate constantly bringing over strange gay men to have sex with all the time or something?

I've lived with intolerable roommates in cramped college dorms before too. I hated when they brought their girlfriends over and acted inappropriately as though I weren't there.

Maybe he's not a bully. Maybe he's just putting the guy in his place.

Again, I don't know all the facts. Nor do I care to look it up.

No offence, but you come off as sounding really unsympathetic for the victim, and attempting to justify the perpetrator's actions. Whether or not he was "constantly bringing over strange gay men" doesn't justify him publicly humiliating him on the internet. He crossed a line, and he didn't deserve it, so don't say "maybe he's just putting the guy in his place". Well, he's dead now, so he sure got his just desserts, right?

You can't compare whatever annoyances you had with your "intolerable roommates" to this. Deal with it another way, like, I dunno, TALKING. This isn't just some little college prank gone wrong; it's a fucking invasion of privacy.

On the topic of homosexuality, I just wanted to say something that might inject a bit of light humour into the whole thing.

Without homosexuality, without fluid and vibrant sexuality, without difference, the world would be helluva boring. Seriously, most people actually like multiculturalism and what it has done for various countries around the world. Many people seem to forget how much difference has done for them personally and society as a whole, and what's the alternative? That we're all just nameless, faceless robots who just follow a single, set path with no deviation from the core? What kind of meaningless life is that for humans? It's got even less meaning that what life currently has now!

Besides, without homosexuals, there'd be no Gok Wan, meaning that there'd be no "How to Look Good Naked". It's somewhat ironic that a gay man must be a godsend to MILF fans.

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with sexuality or the oppression of sexualities. And in most western countries other than America, it has done nothing but destabilize most countries and suppress the natives of said countries.

I was just talking about difference in general, but it was merely a joke nonetheless. I don't know what you mean when you say it's "done nothing but destabilize most countries and suppress the natives of said countries". My point is that life would be boring if everyone was the same.

 

[dayjack01]

To be honest the guys practicly punished himslef he now has to live with the fact that he (may of) killed another human being and no matter who you are that will hurt alot inside so i dont think he deserves that kind of punishment beucase there is no evidence that he caused the suicide unless the OP forgot to mention that he posted it on the internet.

 

[Womplord]

This sounds like the trial was influenced heavily by the media and politics. I don't think justice was done fairly, he wasn't the one who killed Tyler Clementi. The punishment seems inordinate.

 

[RaikuFA]

Man in question: Haha this guy is gonna be so embarrassed that I filmed this, haha.

Courts: You hate gays and caused this man's ills! Go to prison as long as some murderers do!

Justice has been served.

EDIT: Not that he shouldn't be punished, but the article made it seem like he was a borderline murderer, when all he did was spy on someone, which a lot of us would do If given the chance. Did he release the video? If so then I can see him going to jail, but 10 years is still too extreme I'd say. The doctor who was responsible for drugging michael jackson didn't even get that long.

He also tried to get his friends to say stuff on the stand to throw off the prosecution, which is called witness tampering. Which is a very serious offense in of itself. And he was caught by police deleting the twitter posts, the texts and emails he sent to his friends telling them to say X on the stand.

 

[RaikuFA]

This sounds like the trial was influenced heavily by the media and politics. I don't think justice was done fairly, he wasn't the one who killed Tyler Clementi. The punishment seems inordinate.

Read the post above you, hes being charged for more than just bullying...