H.P. Lovecraft.

[cianer]

In "The Rats in the Walls" the cat was actually named "Ni**er Man". I mean damn..I threw my head back laughing at the fact that he actually named his cat that.

I'm Irish and believe it or not it was quite common in Ireland up till about 50 years ago for black dogs to be called ******. Go figure. I guess they didn't realise it was an offensive term...........or maybe they just didn't think about it.

 

[anti_strunt]

Lovecraft was brilliant, and his racism sometimes bordered on paranoid delushions. These two are not mutually exclusive.

Any fan of Lovecraft should read Houellebecqs excellent essay "Against the World, Against Life". I used to be available online for free, but apparently no longer... If anyone can find a link they'll be my hero.

 

[Arsen]

The problem is, the modern definition of racism. We think our modern society takes precedence over the former on the basis of our beliefs alone.

Even for his time period he was horribly horribly racist.

He's a great writer and he understood horror, probably because he lived his life a lot in depression and fear, but don't defend his racism. It's indefensible, even by the standards of his own time.

Racism wasn't even a word for his time period. It's defensible. The only way one can become so unjustifiably angry is if they believe a modern, liberal definition of the word overtakes the past's defintion and not what the word fully entails.

 

[Axolotl]

It's worth noting that whilst he was a massive racist early in his life, he was much less so in his later years.

 

[Arsen]

It's worth noting that whilst he was a massive racist early in his life, he was much less so in his later years.

He married a Jewish woman. I concur.

But overall, the ways he writes does not degrade from his work at all.

 

[hellthins]

The problem is, the modern definition of racism. We think our modern society takes precedence over the former on the basis of our beliefs alone.

Even for his time period he was horribly horribly racist.

He's a great writer and he understood horror, probably because he lived his life a lot in depression and fear, but don't defend his racism. It's indefensible, even by the standards of his own time.

Racism wasn't even a word for his time period. It's defensible. The only way one can become so unjustifiably angry is if they believe a modern, liberal definition of the word overtakes the past's defintion and not what the word fully entails.

He equated black people with the devil. Even people of his time period didn't think that minorities were of the devil, just savage and lessers. He equated minorities with the horrible spawns of an uncaring universe come to take your sanity, your life, and your hope.

Our best writers can still be some of our best writers yet be flawed people. Poe, for example, was a complete asshole to everyone but he still knew how to write.

 

[Arsen]

The problem is, the modern definition of racism. We think our modern society takes precedence over the former on the basis of our beliefs alone.

Even for his time period he was horribly horribly racist.

He's a great writer and he understood horror, probably because he lived his life a lot in depression and fear, but don't defend his racism. It's indefensible, even by the standards of his own time.

Racism wasn't even a word for his time period. It's defensible. The only way one can become so unjustifiably angry is if they believe a modern, liberal definition of the word overtakes the past's defintion and not what the word fully entails.

He equated black people with the devil. Even people of his time period didn't think that minorities were of the devil, just savage and lessers. He equated minorities with the horrible spawns of an uncaring universe come to take your sanity, your life, and your hope.

Our best writers can still be some of our best writers yet be flawed people. Poe, for example, was a complete asshole to everyone but he still knew how to write.

Well keep in mind that the majority of these tribes when standing next to a Christian belief were very, very Satanic by nature. What monotheistic god in the face of this isn't murderous, evil, and above all abhorrent?

It fits do the ancient cultures beliefs in their practices. There is no cultural boundary, there is no level of human advancement, it was the non-acceptance of a good God over fallen creations.

 

[hellthins]

Well keep in mind that the majority of these tribes when standing next to a Christian belief were very, very Satanic by nature. What monotheistic god in the face of this isn't murderous, evil, and above all abhorrent?

It fits do the ancient cultures beliefs in their practices. There is no cultural boundary, there is no level of human advancement, it was the non-acceptance of a good God over fallen creations.

It was more than the tribes though. Even the people in his own towns who were Christians were still in line with Satan or similar forces. He abhored minorities with an incredible extremity that few people in his time period shared. Yes, he got better, but even while married to a Jewish woman he would still rant and rave about the jews. Much to the amusement of his wife, obviously.

Our best cultural contributors, again, do not need to be perfect people. You don't have to make excuses for their behavior. Again, much like Poe, Lovecraft was a real dick even by his time's standards.

 

[Arsen]

Well keep in mind that the majority of these tribes when standing next to a Christian belief were very, very Satanic by nature. What monotheistic god in the face of this isn't murderous, evil, and above all abhorrent?

It fits do the ancient cultures beliefs in their practices. There is no cultural boundary, there is no level of human advancement, it was the non-acceptance of a good God over fallen creations.

It was more than the tribes though. Even the people in his own towns who were Christians were still in line with Satan or similar forces. He abhored minorities with an incredible extremity that few people in his time period shared. Yes, he got better, but even while married to a Jewish woman he would still rant and rave about the jews. Much to the amusement of his wife, obviously.

Our best cultural contributors, again, do not need to be perfect people. You don't have to make excuses for their behavior. Again, much like Poe, Lovecraft was a real dick even by his time's standards.

He died in the worst way fathomable.

Malnourished, lack of emotion, broken spirit, poor...
What a way to go.

 

[Jamash]

If I had a time machine I would travel back, grab him by the lapels and bring him back to our time and show him how wrong he was, point out that his oh-so-saintly father's madness and death was most likely due to syphillis and then dump him back in his own shitty time period where his sort of racism was quietly tolerated.

You know that wouldn't work, you wouldn't be able to change his perception and if anything, it would just confirm his beliefs, he'd only see what he wanted to see.

He would write a story about a man who has a strange dream, in which he was visited by a deluded being from the future who takes him on a journey in an attempt to show him the errors of this thinking, but instead shows him the horrors of modern society, which despite all it's enlightenment & technological advancement, the being himself is blind to, but the protagonist can see only too real.

He'd write about how the sub-human tribes have run amok in society, how they trample each other to death in a derranged mob, fuelled by an evil desire for material poessions(sic), on a day which is so named after those tribes.

Of how these tribes corrupt the youth with their seductive music, with it's tribal, hypnotic beats, taught to them by Cthulhu, which permeates every facet of society & entertainment. Chief among these agents of Cthulhu would be the sub-human so named after the evil of money & material possession, '50 Cent'.
How those who have been persuaded by Cthulhu show their allegiance by the wearing of outlandish jewellery, called 'Bling', which he suspects was given to them by Dagon himself.

He'd write about how Cthulhu not only influences man through dreams, but also in a new incorporeal guise, named 'Internetothep' (a demonic Arachnid in its own dimension). How it corrupts man, makes him slothenly & spreads it's perversions in a World Wide Web.

He'd talk of the servant of 'Internetothep', the trickster deity 'Wikipedias', how it seduced those seeking knowledge but tricks them with false information & lies, which may appear to be the truth, but are in fact perpetrated by other agents of Cthulhu.

The story would end with the protagonist waking up for his dream of the future, drenched in a cold sweat, plagued with madness and gibbering about the "Horror of the future, how mankind must act now to change it's destiny, oh the horror, the horror..."

 

[hellthins]

Well keep in mind that the majority of these tribes when standing next to a Christian belief were very, very Satanic by nature. What monotheistic god in the face of this isn't murderous, evil, and above all abhorrent?

It fits do the ancient cultures beliefs in their practices. There is no cultural boundary, there is no level of human advancement, it was the non-acceptance of a good God over fallen creations.

It was more than the tribes though. Even the people in his own towns who were Christians were still in line with Satan or similar forces. He abhored minorities with an incredible extremity that few people in his time period shared. Yes, he got better, but even while married to a Jewish woman he would still rant and rave about the jews. Much to the amusement of his wife, obviously.

Our best cultural contributors, again, do not need to be perfect people. You don't have to make excuses for their behavior. Again, much like Poe, Lovecraft was a real dick even by his time's standards.

He died in the worst way fathomable.

Malnourished, lack of emotion, broken spirit, poor...
What a way to go.

Poe deserved his fate, the shit he continued to pull, but Lovecraft much less so. Poe, I mean Poe was a horrible example of a person. Lovecraft never actually hurt anyone, he was just a dick in terms of his attitude.

Depressing since, at least in my opinion, Lovecraft was a much better writer than Poe. It is always sad when some one so influential doesn't at least get the recognition they deserve.

 

[Arsen]

If I had a time machine I would travel back, grab him by the lapels and bring him back to our time and show him how wrong he was, point out that his oh-so-saintly father's madness and death was most likely due to syphillis and then dump him back in his own shitty time period where his sort of racism was quietly tolerated.

You know that wouldn't work, you wouldn't be able to change his perception and if anything, it would just confirm his beliefs, he'd only see what he wanted to see.

He would write a story about a man who has a strange dream, in which he was visited by a deluded being from the future who takes him on a journey in an attempt to show him the errors of this thinking, but instead shows him the horrors of modern society, which despite all it's enlightenment & technological advancement, the being himself is blind to, but the protagonist can see only too real.

He'd write about how the sub-human tribes have run amok in society, how they trample each other to death in a derranged mob, fuelled by an evil desire for material poessions(sic), on a day which is so named after those tribes.

Of how these tribes corrupt the youth with their seductive music, with it's tribal, hypnotic beats, taught to them by Cthulhu, which permeates every facet of society & entertainment. Chief among these agents of Cthulhu would be the sub-human so named after the evil of money & material possession, '50 Cent'.
How those who have been persuaded by Cthulhu show their allegiance by the wearing of outlandish jewellery, called 'Bling', which he suspects was given to them by Dagon himself.

He'd write about how Cthulhu not only influences man through dreams, but also in a new incorporeal guise, named 'Internetothep' (a demonic Arachnid in its own dimension). How it corrupts man, makes him slothenly & spreads it's perversions in a World Wide Web.

He'd talk of the servant of 'Internetothep', the trickster deity 'Wikipedias', how it seduced those seeking knowledge but tricks them with false information & lies, which may appear to be the truth, but are in fact perpetrated by other agents of Cthulhu.

The story would end with the protagonist waking up for his dream of the future, drenched in a cold sweat, plagued with madness and gibbering about the "Horror of the future, how mankind must act now to change it's destiny, oh the horror, the horror..."

If you are talking about the Los Angelos riots then you are correct...

Because that is EXACTLY what happened.

 

[hellthins]

If I had a time machine I would travel back, grab him by the lapels and bring him back to our time and show him how wrong he was, point out that his oh-so-saintly father's madness and death was most likely due to syphillis and then dump him back in his own shitty time period where his sort of racism was quietly tolerated.

You know that wouldn't work, you wouldn't be able to change his perception and if anything, it would just confirm his beliefs, he'd only see what he wanted to see.

He would write a story about a man who has a strange dream, in which he was visited by a deluded being from the future who takes him on a journey in an attempt to show him the errors of this thinking, but instead shows him the horrors of modern society, which despite all it's enlightenment & technological advancement, the being himself is blind to, but the protagonist can see only too real.

He'd write about how the sub-human tribes have run amok in society, how they trample each other to death in a derranged mob, fuelled by an evil desire for material poessions(sic), on a day which is so named after those tribes.

Of how these tribes corrupt the youth with their seductive music, with it's tribal, hypnotic beats, taught to them by Cthulhu, which permeates every facet of society & entertainment. Chief among these agents of Cthulhu would be the sub-human so named after the evil of money & material possession, '50 Cent'.
How those who have been persuaded by Cthulhu show their allegiance by the wearing of outlandish jewellery, called 'Bling', which he suspects was given to them by Dagon himself.

He'd write about how Cthulhu not only influences man through dreams, but also in a new incorporeal guise, named 'Internetothep' (a demonic Arachnid in its own dimension). How it corrupts man, makes him slothenly & spreads it's perversions in a World Wide Web.

He'd talk of the servant of 'Internetothep', the trickster deity 'Wikipedias', how it seduced those seeking knowledge but tricks them with false information & lies, which may appear to be the truth, but are in fact perpetrated by other agents of Cthulhu.

The story would end with the protagonist waking up for his dream of the future, drenched in a cold sweat, plagued with madness and gibbering about the "Horror of the future, how mankind must act now to change it's destiny, oh the horror, the horror..."

If you are talking about the Los Angelos riots then you are correct...

Because that is EXACTLY what happened.

Given that he made the internet a cosmic horror when it came about some time after Lovecraft met a horrible end, I'm imagining he was just joking.

However, the LA riots were a lot more than a bunch of black people being angry because they're black people or for material reasons. It was a reaction to rampant racism and corruption present in the system at the time. You could argue they went out of control, and they did given that the riots did cause a few innocent fatalities, but it wasn't just a bunch of black people going AHHHHG WE'RE BLACK!

 

[hellthins]

The Lurker on the Threshold, and hmmm, what was it called, the colour fallen from the sky?
The Fallen Color? Something like that, I don't remember.

The Colour Out of Space. That one gave me chills too.

 

[Jamash]

If I had a time machine I would travel back, grab him by the lapels and bring him back to our time and show him how wrong he was, point out that his oh-so-saintly father's madness and death was most likely due to syphillis and then dump him back in his own shitty time period where his sort of racism was quietly tolerated.

You know that wouldn't work, you wouldn't be able to change his perception and if anything, it would just confirm his beliefs, he'd only see what he wanted to see.

He would write a story about a man who has a strange dream.....

He'd write about how the sub-human tribes have run amok in society, how they trample each other to death in a derranged mob, fuelled by an evil desire for material poessions(sic), on a day which is so named after those tribes.
...................

If you are talking about the Los Angelos riots then you are correct...

Because that is EXACTLY what happened.

I was actually hypothesising on how H.P. Lovecraft would interpret the recent Black Friday tragedy at Wal-Mart, I don't know too much about the LA riots, but I'm sure he would make an equally bleak interpretation of that too, also the looting after hurricane Katrina.
There's probably lots of modern news stories and tragedies that a man with Lovecraft's opinions & writing talents could twist to support their 'racist views'.

But it's all hypothetical, time machines don't exist & if they are invented, I highly doubt 'Cockney Weasel' will get his hands on one & bring H.P. Lovecraft to the future.

I also want to point out I'm only guessing about what H.P. Lovecraft would think, I don't share these views nor am I trying to make any racial commentary on recent events.

 

[Aerakade]

kanada514- The Color (or Colour) Out of Space is what you're probably referring to.

I've loved Lovecraft's work for sometime. I've given up entirely on movies based on his work (until Guillermo makes is which is supposed to be balls out fantastic, but that's pre-producion hype). They're usually amusing but miss the point. Dagon wasn't TOO bad. Not as bad as others. The role playing game (table top) Call of Cthulhu is f*cking brilliant. And Bethesda did an FPS that was (IMO) incredibly well done and depicts Shadow Over Innsmouth and- name escapes me. THe one about time, Shadow Out of Time??? Whatever, the time traveling one about the alien race that has been destroyed but still projects itself into time.

I really loved Lovecraft's bleak look at the world. No romantic subplot, and almost no chance the character(s) will make it out alive or sane. To the Lovecraft fans who have not done so, I'd highly recommend reading into his real life. It explains a bit, his dad was a traveling salesman that died from syphilis, mother committed suicide, and he was interesting in space and astronomy but never made the science or math grades to really pursue it. Anyway, just thowing in my 2 cents.

 

[ThaBenMan]

Lovecraft rocks. My favorite story of his is probably "The Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath". It's about a man named Randolph Carter who goes into the Dreamlands to find the shining city of Kadath that he glimpsed once in a dream. It's a lot more fantasy than his other stuff, but it still has that awesome, eldritch horror flavor we all know and love. Highly recommended. But I love everything I've read by him.

 

[Arsen]

All I am saying is that Lovecraft's work is to beautiful to bring up the non-existent detail of his racism. Seriously...it's beyond forgivable in consideration of his talents to the point where it just doesn't even matter.

At all.