Ah well, not everyone will like it I guess. Still, you have to acknowledge that lots of people do like it so even if you don't see it, there must be something that people love.
Half Life 2 (first impressions)
- Thread starter Etra488
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Come back once you've made it through Ravenholm for example of great survival-horror gameplay.
...also, notice how all the NPCs are, like, real-life people? How they act and feel and have emotions and stuff? And how they're building you up to like and care about those guys? It's a character-based drama set in a dystopian sci-fi setting. But that said, yes, it is a very old game and it has dated elements for sure, which is why I'd consider you picking up Half-Life 2: Episode Two if you don't care for plot or pacing, and just jump right into some open-ish-world vehicular-based gameplays.
...also, notice how all the NPCs are, like, real-life people? How they act and feel and have emotions and stuff? And how they're building you up to like and care about those guys? It's a character-based drama set in a dystopian sci-fi setting. But that said, yes, it is a very old game and it has dated elements for sure, which is why I'd consider you picking up Half-Life 2: Episode Two if you don't care for plot or pacing, and just jump right into some open-ish-world vehicular-based gameplays.
Well alright, I completed the game. I actually expected it to be longer. Gordon twice climbs into restraining devices and loses his weapons both times - because he's an idiot. Whatever. This goes back to what I said about the problems with gameplay progressing in real-time; the writers needed a moment for Breen to explain the story to Gordon. Obviously, if the player was in control of Gordon, the player would shoot Breen in the face and the game would be over.
So the game had to take control away from the player - but this is Half Life - there are no cutscenes or anything like that. So the player has to walk into a trap that the player knows is a trap. Just 10 minutes ago, climbing into one of these things lost me all my weapons. So climbing into a pair of full-body handcuffs a second time would be stupid. But you don't have a choice - unless you don't want to finish the game.
This is how poor gameplay decisions by the designers negatively impacts story. Gordon acts like a moron because of the limitations the developers placed on the writers. The writers needed a way to deliver plot exposition without Gordon shooting the TV monitor or murdering the bad guy. The only way to accomplish this within the confines of the gameplay was to physically restrain Gordon. And the only way to credibly do that was to have Gordon, by his own volition, climb into a second pod. What the fucking fuck.
*** *** *** *** *** *** ***
In the first Half Life, you get the vibe that the resonance cascade just happened - it was an accident. They were performing an experiment, yes, but they weren't expecting that to happen. So it's Gordon Freeman, everyman, just out trying to survive and escape.
And then a god-like entity figure plucks Gordon out and tells him that he acted with distinction and that makes him special. Personally, I rejected the GMan's offer and died on the train
You could contrive the argument that the GMan fabricated the resonance cascade in order to test Gordon; GMan had his eyes on him and wanted to see if Gordon could pull it off. GMan didn't know for certain if Gordon was exceptional or else GMan wouldn't have bothered with the test.
And so here we have the continuing adventures of Gordon Freeman as he acts on the GMan's agenda, even if it's just to act upon contracts Gordon was hired for.
So here's the story of HL2 in a nutshell:
[ul][li]Gordon is an agent of change. GMan put him in a place where he would be purposed into overthrowing the Combine, or die trying.[/li]
[li]The GMan is apparently attempting to recreate the conditions of the Black Mesa event in that Gordon doesn't know what's going on and is, more-or-less, fighting for his life regardless of the consequences of his actions. If Gordon happened to topple a dictatorship, so be it - he's just trying to keep breathing.[/li]
[li]You have that going on, but then the game is about Gordon fighting the Combine. You don't know any of the characters beyond a "I was in the first game." You don't know Eli, Alyx, or Mossman. And I certainly didn't care about any of them. Their struggle was not my struggle, beyond that in a survival sense.[/li]
[li]But the story is about GMan manipulating Gordon. And in that regard, no progress was made. Gordon doesn't have any additional information and his circumstances remain the same.[/li][/ul]
The entire game was just an episode in the life of Gordon Freeman as he does what the GMan, in a round-a-bout way, wants him to do. The real story of the game is about Gordon and the GMan, everything else is just a red herring. And in that regard, I retract all my previous questions about the substance of Half Life 2 because none of it mattered. Gordon will probably never see these characters again and by the time the GMan deploys him a second time, it will be a different world and a different set of circumstances.
So caring about any of it is fruitless. And that makes the entire game filler. The real story is between Gordon and the GMan - and no ground was gained in that arc.
Maybe Valve shouldn't have had this story for this gameplay - with the gameplay features as they are, as I have described in previous posts.
You build the setting, you name and briefly explain the characters, and then you go. Rescuing Eli from the prison might have been the major plot point the developers wanted it to be if you cared about him or Alyx, but I didn't. And I'm not a coldhearted bastard, they were just very very flat.
You set up a bunch of rules for the world:
[ul][li]The Combine is bad.[/li]
[li]The resistance is good.[/li]
[li]The protagonist is given a personal stake in the resistance victory.[/li]
[li]Their fight becomes your fight.[/li]
[li]And then, about halfway through the game, something happens that changes everything.[/li][/ul]
In Starcraft, it was overthrowing the Confederacy. And then it happened again when the Overmind landed on Aiur. And then it happened again when Tassadar killed the Overmind. In Halo, it was the discovery of the Flood and again when learning Halo's true purpose. Objectives changed, priorities shifted, and the mission you're about to go on now, was not the mission you would have gone on yesterday.
During the course of overthrowing the Confederacy, Mengsk revealed himself to be a monster. It wasn't so bad that his troops and officers would abandon the cause, but it was enough for Raynor to walk away, and you empathized with him. A character actually had an opinion about the world events as they happened! How revolutionary!
343 Guilt Spark was a funny little AI, and even if he was stoic about the Master Chief's struggles, it was a surprise to realize he would be the ultimate antagonist for the game. It gave the character depth to know that he has motivations beyond helping the Master Chief.
Half Life 2 does not have any of this. Every character that was a good guy in the beginning, is a good guy in the end. There was an attempt to do something with Judith, but that never panned out. Breen is the same asshole in the end that he was when you appeared (briefly) in his office.
There is no growth in any of the characters. Part of this is gameplay restrictions - progressing in real-time and asking for growth is probably too much to happen in a 20 hour period.
So again, wacky gameplay mechanics are handicapping storyline. The entire game was filler.
So the game had to take control away from the player - but this is Half Life - there are no cutscenes or anything like that. So the player has to walk into a trap that the player knows is a trap. Just 10 minutes ago, climbing into one of these things lost me all my weapons. So climbing into a pair of full-body handcuffs a second time would be stupid. But you don't have a choice - unless you don't want to finish the game.
This is how poor gameplay decisions by the designers negatively impacts story. Gordon acts like a moron because of the limitations the developers placed on the writers. The writers needed a way to deliver plot exposition without Gordon shooting the TV monitor or murdering the bad guy. The only way to accomplish this within the confines of the gameplay was to physically restrain Gordon. And the only way to credibly do that was to have Gordon, by his own volition, climb into a second pod. What the fucking fuck.
*** *** *** *** *** *** ***
In the first Half Life, you get the vibe that the resonance cascade just happened - it was an accident. They were performing an experiment, yes, but they weren't expecting that to happen. So it's Gordon Freeman, everyman, just out trying to survive and escape.
And then a god-like entity figure plucks Gordon out and tells him that he acted with distinction and that makes him special. Personally, I rejected the GMan's offer and died on the train
You could contrive the argument that the GMan fabricated the resonance cascade in order to test Gordon; GMan had his eyes on him and wanted to see if Gordon could pull it off. GMan didn't know for certain if Gordon was exceptional or else GMan wouldn't have bothered with the test.And so here we have the continuing adventures of Gordon Freeman as he acts on the GMan's agenda, even if it's just to act upon contracts Gordon was hired for.
So here's the story of HL2 in a nutshell:
[ul][li]Gordon is an agent of change. GMan put him in a place where he would be purposed into overthrowing the Combine, or die trying.[/li]
[li]The GMan is apparently attempting to recreate the conditions of the Black Mesa event in that Gordon doesn't know what's going on and is, more-or-less, fighting for his life regardless of the consequences of his actions. If Gordon happened to topple a dictatorship, so be it - he's just trying to keep breathing.[/li]
[li]You have that going on, but then the game is about Gordon fighting the Combine. You don't know any of the characters beyond a "I was in the first game." You don't know Eli, Alyx, or Mossman. And I certainly didn't care about any of them. Their struggle was not my struggle, beyond that in a survival sense.[/li]
[li]But the story is about GMan manipulating Gordon. And in that regard, no progress was made. Gordon doesn't have any additional information and his circumstances remain the same.[/li][/ul]
The entire game was just an episode in the life of Gordon Freeman as he does what the GMan, in a round-a-bout way, wants him to do. The real story of the game is about Gordon and the GMan, everything else is just a red herring. And in that regard, I retract all my previous questions about the substance of Half Life 2 because none of it mattered. Gordon will probably never see these characters again and by the time the GMan deploys him a second time, it will be a different world and a different set of circumstances.
So caring about any of it is fruitless. And that makes the entire game filler. The real story is between Gordon and the GMan - and no ground was gained in that arc.
When you're the fish-out-water character, and the world you came from has changed irrevocably, then having information beyond cursory detail might be pertinent. When you're playing as a MIT physicist who doesn't ask questions or demonstrate any curiosity beyond "what's inside this crate" then the protagonist starts to look like a dummy.
Maybe Valve shouldn't have had this story for this gameplay - with the gameplay features as they are, as I have described in previous posts.
You build the setting, you name and briefly explain the characters, and then you go. Rescuing Eli from the prison might have been the major plot point the developers wanted it to be if you cared about him or Alyx, but I didn't. And I'm not a coldhearted bastard, they were just very very flat.
You set up a bunch of rules for the world:
[ul][li]The Combine is bad.[/li]
[li]The resistance is good.[/li]
[li]The protagonist is given a personal stake in the resistance victory.[/li]
[li]Their fight becomes your fight.[/li]
[li]And then, about halfway through the game, something happens that changes everything.[/li][/ul]
In Starcraft, it was overthrowing the Confederacy. And then it happened again when the Overmind landed on Aiur. And then it happened again when Tassadar killed the Overmind. In Halo, it was the discovery of the Flood and again when learning Halo's true purpose. Objectives changed, priorities shifted, and the mission you're about to go on now, was not the mission you would have gone on yesterday.
During the course of overthrowing the Confederacy, Mengsk revealed himself to be a monster. It wasn't so bad that his troops and officers would abandon the cause, but it was enough for Raynor to walk away, and you empathized with him. A character actually had an opinion about the world events as they happened! How revolutionary!
343 Guilt Spark was a funny little AI, and even if he was stoic about the Master Chief's struggles, it was a surprise to realize he would be the ultimate antagonist for the game. It gave the character depth to know that he has motivations beyond helping the Master Chief.
Half Life 2 does not have any of this. Every character that was a good guy in the beginning, is a good guy in the end. There was an attempt to do something with Judith, but that never panned out. Breen is the same asshole in the end that he was when you appeared (briefly) in his office.
There is no growth in any of the characters. Part of this is gameplay restrictions - progressing in real-time and asking for growth is probably too much to happen in a 20 hour period.
So again, wacky gameplay mechanics are handicapping storyline. The entire game was filler.
But you didn't lose any of your weapons. You got a weapon that was better than all of the other combined. What exactly are you complaining? And how did the players know they were walking into a trap? The first time it leads into you getting the Super Gravity Gun. You call that a trap?davidarmstrong488 said:
theres 2 other scenes that were excelent for drawing emotion and feeling the struggle the resistance fighters are going through. i wont toss out a spoiler but ones after Ravenholm and the other is when you get the rocket launcher. those 2 scenes realy did give the whole thing allot of purpose even if you didnt understand the backstory. why are you doing this? well after a few scenes like that if you cant answer that question then you should just stick with COD multiplayer and its 100 clones. wich even back when HL2 was made most FPS games were run and gun spray and pray noob tube bunny hopping shoot em ups and HL2 was a refreshing change for the genre then as well as it still is.
why was it refreshing for me? well it wasnt constant action, cutscenes were non exhistant, was the only game that i spent the better part of an hour messing about before realy getting started in the game... first metro cop after the train i threw anything and everything i could at his head and run away from him. that was pure awesome sauce for me when HL2 first came out. then the can cop! haha bounce that can off his noggin and into the trash can! and you can do things like that through the whole game. boring? not at all. add in the way the story unfolds instead of a movie where you do the shooting action parts and thats why I enjoy HL2, warts and all!
why was it refreshing for me? well it wasnt constant action, cutscenes were non exhistant, was the only game that i spent the better part of an hour messing about before realy getting started in the game... first metro cop after the train i threw anything and everything i could at his head and run away from him. that was pure awesome sauce for me when HL2 first came out. then the can cop! haha bounce that can off his noggin and into the trash can! and you can do things like that through the whole game. boring? not at all. add in the way the story unfolds instead of a movie where you do the shooting action parts and thats why I enjoy HL2, warts and all!
oliveira8, that was chance. The Gravity Gun broke the machine - Gordon could have been killed. And why did it even do that?
Why would you climb into a mechanical straight-jacket in the first place? How in the world would that seem like a good idea to you?
Why would you climb into a mechanical straight-jacket in the first place? How in the world would that seem like a good idea to you?
I agree that was one of the things I didnt understand what the devs were thinking. i think a conveyor belt or something that you jump on wouldve served better for the first one. but the second was part of the plot where you are captured and I cant really see them doing that any other way... so first a conveyor belt, second the way it is would have been better.davidarmstrong488 said:
Wtf are you talking about the g-man put Gordon on Earth to stop the combine not recreate the Black Mesa Incident that was the whole point of "the right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world" speech at the beginning.
As for the character developing they do. Judith goes from being a combine spy to openly defying breen, Alyx goes from being cold hearted toward Judith to liking her.
also if you say since "But the story is about GMan manipulating Gordon. And in that regard, no progress was made. Gordon doesn't have any additional information and his circumstances remain the same." All of half life 1 would be pointless also since everything in half life 1 was the G-man manipulating Gordon.
And I must say if you didn't care for Eli or Alyx then you really are coldhearted they are some of the most believable characters in video game history because there so human like.
and for the LAST TIME GORDON DOES TALK you just dont hear him do it.
As for the character developing they do. Judith goes from being a combine spy to openly defying breen, Alyx goes from being cold hearted toward Judith to liking her.
also if you say since "But the story is about GMan manipulating Gordon. And in that regard, no progress was made. Gordon doesn't have any additional information and his circumstances remain the same." All of half life 1 would be pointless also since everything in half life 1 was the G-man manipulating Gordon.
And I must say if you didn't care for Eli or Alyx then you really are coldhearted they are some of the most believable characters in video game history because there so human like.
and for the LAST TIME GORDON DOES TALK you just dont hear him do it.
Have you ever wondered how in half life 1 the scientists and security guards knew that Gordon wanted them to either stay in one spot or come with him its because he tells them, he says stuff like "come on" or "stay there". Did you ever wonder how in Half Life 2 in Eli's lab you can click on the newspaper clippings board and Eli who is turned around will come over and talk to you about it, same with the picture of his wife, and the head in the jar on his table. its because Gordon is implied to have said hey whats this.
Valve themselves have said Gordon DOES speak they just dont put a voice to it because the whole point of Gordon is that you can make him however you want.
Valve themselves have said Gordon DOES speak they just dont put a voice to it because the whole point of Gordon is that you can make him however you want.
Uh huh. That's why they never put a face on the Master Chief.Somtaaw said:
I got it. It doesn't work. Because unlike Master Chief's face, which is just a cosmetic detail, the player loses out on content when Gordon does not ask "Wtf is with all these aliens, eh?"
Gordon Freeman apparently being a Canadian...
You dont really lose content because they give you a response. it doesn't matter if Gordon said it Canadian style or British style the response would be the same. There's no need to give him a voice and giving him a voice would make him less like you.
Also did you ever try talking to the Vortigants they explain that after Gordon killed the Nialanth in Half Life 1 they felt such gratitude that they joined humanity's fight against the Combine.
Also did you ever try talking to the Vortigants they explain that after Gordon killed the Nialanth in Half Life 1 they felt such gratitude that they joined humanity's fight against the Combine.
so every game that has a silent protaganist is crap? fuck no! you yourself said you enjoyed HL1.
the issue is you are getting too used to games that are story based handing you the story via cutscenes, taking control away from you for the story (cutscenes), and letting you control for the action parts only. modern gaming taking the worst elements of older games that HL2 made obsolete but everyone but valve was too stupid to see.
in HL2 having 0 none nada cutscenes having gordon talk would break imersion! you are playing as Gordon, shooting headcrabs metrocops or whatever and saying things while you do it, we all do it at one point or another and that was the point Valve made and is making still(Portal-silent Chell protagonist you said you loved it). during the scripted parts to drive the story you are supposed to continue saying things as you messed around. as in HIS VOICE IS YOURS, he has your accent, he is you! having some actor yapping away would ruin that. I sometimes play as a sarcastic sob that makes me wonder why do they all love me, and then ive played and did derp derp the whole game. thats the bueaty of it! you dont have some voice actor and dev telling you what your character sounds like and having some fun in a game is kinda the whole point!!
it would also ruin the "discover" the deeper parts of the story that was part of what Valve was working towards. did they want to hand you the story, backstory and every little bit and piece to you on a silver platter? no they didnt, they wanted you to discover these things on your own. hell the game was played by millions of gamers that never touched HL and gained millions of fans. I actualy thought HL was kinda cheesy but fun. enter HL2 and it was a great change of pace and fun to learn what i missed in HL1 and learn more in HL2. yes I liked run and gun constant action shooters when HL1 was released. HL@ i played it and discovered there is more to fps games and they can be story driven like rpg or platformers are. and HL2 is a FPS with RPG elements mixed in. the first two letters of RPG to be precise.
But thats all beside the point as I think maybe you are trying to start a flame war.
*edit
NM I browsed through your posts. you are not trying to start a flame war, yer also not trolling. Sorry! about that.
anyway looking into all that i can now see the problem with you and HL2 and why you kept missing the bold and blatant plot/story hooks thats liberaly scattered in the game. I suggest everyone else here in this thread do the same.
the issue is you are getting too used to games that are story based handing you the story via cutscenes, taking control away from you for the story (cutscenes), and letting you control for the action parts only. modern gaming taking the worst elements of older games that HL2 made obsolete but everyone but valve was too stupid to see.
in HL2 having 0 none nada cutscenes having gordon talk would break imersion! you are playing as Gordon, shooting headcrabs metrocops or whatever and saying things while you do it, we all do it at one point or another and that was the point Valve made and is making still(Portal-silent Chell protagonist you said you loved it). during the scripted parts to drive the story you are supposed to continue saying things as you messed around. as in HIS VOICE IS YOURS, he has your accent, he is you! having some actor yapping away would ruin that. I sometimes play as a sarcastic sob that makes me wonder why do they all love me, and then ive played and did derp derp the whole game. thats the bueaty of it! you dont have some voice actor and dev telling you what your character sounds like and having some fun in a game is kinda the whole point!!
it would also ruin the "discover" the deeper parts of the story that was part of what Valve was working towards. did they want to hand you the story, backstory and every little bit and piece to you on a silver platter? no they didnt, they wanted you to discover these things on your own. hell the game was played by millions of gamers that never touched HL and gained millions of fans. I actualy thought HL was kinda cheesy but fun. enter HL2 and it was a great change of pace and fun to learn what i missed in HL1 and learn more in HL2. yes I liked run and gun constant action shooters when HL1 was released. HL@ i played it and discovered there is more to fps games and they can be story driven like rpg or platformers are. and HL2 is a FPS with RPG elements mixed in. the first two letters of RPG to be precise.
But thats all beside the point as I think maybe you are trying to start a flame war.
*edit
NM I browsed through your posts. you are not trying to start a flame war, yer also not trolling. Sorry! about that.
anyway looking into all that i can now see the problem with you and HL2 and why you kept missing the bold and blatant plot/story hooks thats liberaly scattered in the game. I suggest everyone else here in this thread do the same.
As soon as I read the title of this thread, I immediately thought: "If this guy has anything to say that isn't praising HL2 as the messiah of gaming, he will be torn apart."
Guess I was wrong. I'm pleasantly surprised by the civility.
Guess I was wrong. I'm pleasantly surprised by the civility.
But being contrary is a sign of intelligence, or so the internet seems to believe.SteelStallion said:
Seriously though, these threads significantly lower the standard of quality in this forum. Nobody else spams the review section poorly written, formatted and organized walls of text.
Half-Life 2 expands on Half-Life 1's ending to introduce a lot of mystery to the players while offering them hints. At the end of Half-Life 2 you most definitely do NOT have a clear picture of what's going on. You're given small bits and pieces of what went on while you were in "stasis." Your allies in this game have no idea where you've been, so you can't expect them to explain everything. Besides, I rather like the mystery.
The mystery allows for conjecture and hypothesizing on what's going on. Hell, for over a year since the game's release there was an active wiki being updated with theories that fit the current facts being listed.
Some of these questions are answered in the two next episodes, most are left for us to ponder. In the end, it's a matter of taste. The type of storytelling used in Half-Life 1/2 isn't for everyone. Those who like it, they like it a lot. Those who don't, well there are other games to play.
The mystery allows for conjecture and hypothesizing on what's going on. Hell, for over a year since the game's release there was an active wiki being updated with theories that fit the current facts being listed.
Some of these questions are answered in the two next episodes, most are left for us to ponder. In the end, it's a matter of taste. The type of storytelling used in Half-Life 1/2 isn't for everyone. Those who like it, they like it a lot. Those who don't, well there are other games to play.
You're absolutely correct, dead on the money.Zer_ said:
And my opinion is that I do not like those kinds of stories. Episodes 1 and 2 improved the quality of the experience because at least you have Alyx there to provide a running commentary - but that companionship only hides my criticisms for the game, not alleviates them. You can see Valve improving the longer they go.
And maybe they'll reach a level where the gameplay is just so strong that story and plot cease to matter if its bad. But they're not there yet. I found Half Life 2 boring and a drudgery to complete. The game did not start to click with me until I received the upgraded Gravity Gun, and by then the game is 90% over.
Missions like Ravenholm - where Valve was obviously exploring what would be the Left 4 Dead franchise - were so apparently filler it annoyed me. The game has so much content with so little happening.
Oh? Need to clear out this squad of Combine soldiers just so I can deactivate the 50th electronic lock in a row? Jesus Christ - if Alyx had given Gordon her little tool the first time they met, it'd cut the game's running time in half. So much time is spent nickel and diming the player for minutes of content.
The game is so much filler...