Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban
- Thread starter Karloff
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I can never get behind permabans for inappropriate conduct. Cheating? Hacking? ban them. Inappropriate conduct, suspend them, or better yet, just mute them. I don't mean the player being assaulted needs to just go "mute" because that sends the message that the attacker won. Mute the attacker, for a month. Make it so they can only be heard by people in their party. If they still manage to harass people while muted, then you can throw in harsher punishments. Zero Tolerance Global Muting? Yeah, I can get behind that, and it should make a big stink when they're globally muted. It should be a mark on their record as "this guy is an asshole, but we've muted him, you're welcome" Some morons might wear it as a mark of pride. But those people that get muted constantly for being assholes, THOSE are the ones that you want to ban.
You might not agree with my "let's not ban people and ruin their 60 dollar purchases over something stupid" policy, but I think it's probably better
You might not agree with my "let's not ban people and ruin their 60 dollar purchases over something stupid" policy, but I think it's probably better
I just want to say that kiki wolfkill is hot. 
I figure this is good overall I only like te offensives with my friends that knowz!:0 (rb lika the racist joke but he aint no racist) lmao
on a more serious note how does this work like do you have to tell on someone or is it based on a word catcher(Ie: Shut up you stupid *****/ You have been permabanned from xbox live)
I supposed perma ban is pretty harsh they should let people know before they play that way you know nobody slips up. and by people I mean everyone plus you well informed escapist hipsters!
captcha: geez louise
I figure this is good overall I only like te offensives with my friends that knowz!:0 (rb lika the racist joke but he aint no racist) lmao
on a more serious note how does this work like do you have to tell on someone or is it based on a word catcher(Ie: Shut up you stupid *****/ You have been permabanned from xbox live)
I supposed perma ban is pretty harsh they should let people know before they play that way you know nobody slips up. and by people I mean everyone plus you well informed escapist hipsters!
captcha: geez louise
'Doom972 said:
It will, the article says that they're be cracking down on discriminatory comments in general.
I'm not a multiplayer gamer at all, so this has no effect on me. Still I wonder, is it possible to just block people of the opposite gender from playing the same maps that you are on? That would be a good way to prevent sexist remarks. It worked in the school I attended. If you want to remove sexual tension, just remove sexual diversity. Separate servers for the men and women to play on. Problem solved.
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, this could be good to get rid of the stream of assholes. On the other... no, actually, I don't play on xbox, so don't really care about the other side's complaints.
Lol, just kidding there. In all seriousness, there has been some arguments popping up, some with merit, some without, that oppose this notion.
Freedom of speech is not a factor in this instance and anyone bringing it up is an overly entitled git who doesn't understand it. The company reserves it's right to dictate the rules of service here, including language. Freedom of speech only protects your ability to say your thoughts, it says nothing about your capacity to speak them to others or to use the services of others to speak them to a larger audience.
The Overkill of it all is arguably worth mentioning. Given that they are changing the terms of service to crack down on racism and sexism and the like(at least, I am giving the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that it is universal discrimination, rather then selective types), it only makes sense that the result of breaking the terms of service is end of service, i.e. no more xbox live access. I can see arguments made that perma-mutings would be a better way to handle things, though then you still have someone with a bad attitude that you can't communicate with and may or may not just try acting like a punk with a chip on his shoulder trying to get the perma ban since he can't talk anyways. Worth discussing more I guess. Though, for those that say there is work arounds for perma-muting, well, at that point they are going to troll anyways and if they can work around that, I think they could also work around the full ban too. Seems a non-point to bring it up as some criticism to the idea of mutings.
It being a waste of time? Eh, depends how it goes and how they implement the system. If it is merely report -> banned thing where people are barely looked into because of sheer volume of reports, false accusations fly rampant and the appeal system is a joke... well, then we will have problems. If they have the manpower to monitor things, they look at each case, and they can look at appeals, well, then it might not be too bad. But that ties in to the last, and probably most important criticism: Lack of clarification.
At the moment all we have heard is zero tolerance for discrimination. That could mean anything from using slurs with female undertones (****, whore, ***** etc.), to jokes, to full on asshat behavior of hitting on and trying to get women to show their tits. Yes we want to stop the most asshat behavior, and yes all games should be an environment free of harassment. The problem arises though, when you take a community like x-box live and implement a harsh marshal law system where anything taken the wrong way can get you perma'd.
Now as others have said, they don't have the specifics yet, so like most of the points here, this is based on what info we have. Zero tolerance policies in general have had issues, and when it comes to the atmosphere of joking and passionate but in-good-fun comments, I have to wonder if it is the right choice. Laughingly calling someone a cuntmonger when they get a cheap kill isn't intended to be discriminatory, yet the word of origin there is a negative slur relating to women and without clearly defined rules, and a stated notion of "zero tolerance", would that be a possible deathblow to one's account?
Lol, just kidding there. In all seriousness, there has been some arguments popping up, some with merit, some without, that oppose this notion.
Freedom of speech is not a factor in this instance and anyone bringing it up is an overly entitled git who doesn't understand it. The company reserves it's right to dictate the rules of service here, including language. Freedom of speech only protects your ability to say your thoughts, it says nothing about your capacity to speak them to others or to use the services of others to speak them to a larger audience.
The Overkill of it all is arguably worth mentioning. Given that they are changing the terms of service to crack down on racism and sexism and the like(at least, I am giving the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that it is universal discrimination, rather then selective types), it only makes sense that the result of breaking the terms of service is end of service, i.e. no more xbox live access. I can see arguments made that perma-mutings would be a better way to handle things, though then you still have someone with a bad attitude that you can't communicate with and may or may not just try acting like a punk with a chip on his shoulder trying to get the perma ban since he can't talk anyways. Worth discussing more I guess. Though, for those that say there is work arounds for perma-muting, well, at that point they are going to troll anyways and if they can work around that, I think they could also work around the full ban too. Seems a non-point to bring it up as some criticism to the idea of mutings.
It being a waste of time? Eh, depends how it goes and how they implement the system. If it is merely report -> banned thing where people are barely looked into because of sheer volume of reports, false accusations fly rampant and the appeal system is a joke... well, then we will have problems. If they have the manpower to monitor things, they look at each case, and they can look at appeals, well, then it might not be too bad. But that ties in to the last, and probably most important criticism: Lack of clarification.
At the moment all we have heard is zero tolerance for discrimination. That could mean anything from using slurs with female undertones (****, whore, ***** etc.), to jokes, to full on asshat behavior of hitting on and trying to get women to show their tits. Yes we want to stop the most asshat behavior, and yes all games should be an environment free of harassment. The problem arises though, when you take a community like x-box live and implement a harsh marshal law system where anything taken the wrong way can get you perma'd.
Now as others have said, they don't have the specifics yet, so like most of the points here, this is based on what info we have. Zero tolerance policies in general have had issues, and when it comes to the atmosphere of joking and passionate but in-good-fun comments, I have to wonder if it is the right choice. Laughingly calling someone a cuntmonger when they get a cheap kill isn't intended to be discriminatory, yet the word of origin there is a negative slur relating to women and without clearly defined rules, and a stated notion of "zero tolerance", would that be a possible deathblow to one's account?
Separate but equal is inherently flawed and by the very nature of the separation, it is itself discriminatory. It essentially says that the two genders can't be together in the same place because of a stereotype idea that one or both parties will act inappropriately and therefor must be separated for the good of the whole. I'm sorry, but no, I don't want people to tell me I can't play with my friends because some asshole happens to share the trait of "having a penis" with me, and spoiled the fun for everyone.Grant Stackhouse said:
Freedom of speech does not mean you are allowed to use other people's property to send out your message.Helmholtz Watson said:
Use of xbox live is using the service of a company, who in turn can set the terms of the use of the service. If they say you can't be racist on their product, they have that right. It in no way denies you the freedom to say racist things THROUGH YOUR OWN PROPERTY, rather it protects them from having their service be tied down to ideals they do not agree to.
Whine, whine, whine. This kind of behavior is exactly why so many gamers use sexist slurs online. Because trash-talking between guys is fine, but the moment you do it to a woman, MUH FEELINGS BAN HIM NOW! If you don't like the community don't play the game. Or even better, use the mute function that Xbox Live has built-in and has had since day one. Jesus, I was once in a lobby full of a bunch of Pakistanis, and we were all making fun of each other's accents. Is that hate speech now?
"If you don't like the community, don't play the game" is a very narrowed minded idea to have. It basically says "we're a bunch of close minded jerks and if you've got a problem with that then don't play the game, even if you really like it." The phrase has been thrown around a lot on this thread, but it really is victim blaming. One person is being a jerk and the other person is feeling isolated, and this is throwing all of the problems on the victim. Also, it is true that trash talking can be a major problem, but is that any excuse to ignore this very real problem of widespread sexism on XBL? I sure as Hell don't think so.Ravinoff said:
Just popping in, but I believe the appropriate response to being told by someone in an online gaming session to "make them a sandwich" is "Go fix my fucking car, and don't forget the oil change, you stupid piece of shit."Zachary Amaranth said:
Usually works, anyway.
Go back and look at the conversation that I was having, it was in regards to whether Canadian law would force Microsoft to not allow people to spew sexist speech, to which I replied that an American company doesn't have to worry about what Canadian laws say when determining if its legally allowed for American Xbox users to say things that Canada has deemed illegal to say.runic knight said:
Also....
....this guy has it right. People need to grow a thinker skin.Ravinoff said:
