Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[AnarchistAbe]

I just remembered that Halo Reach had an option to mute everyone except your friends.

Why don't people just use that?

because people can't just simply be "offended" these days, they can't just shrug and move along.

something must be done anytime someone says something you might not like.


*gasp!* those vocal sound rifts in the air offended my ears! PERMABAN THEIR GAME!

This!!! A million times, this! We have lost the ability to handle ourselves. We demand that authority steps in to take care of our problems for us, every time we deem fit. It's a complete failure on our part, IMO.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

And it doesn't matter how many mods Microsoft throws at Halo 4. They simply can't reign in the whole of Xbox LIVE.

True, you can't catch everyone, but you can scare them. Kind of like how when you see a police officer writing someone a ticket you slow down. Or even the sight of that empty police car on the side of the highway makes you flinch.


Threatening to take away these kid's only feeling of self importance is probably the easiest way to get them to behave.

Right, but the problem is the publicity.

When someone mouths off and gets banned, there isn't going to be a booming voice across the map saying "xxX HaloUrMum Xxx was banned for sexism! Watch out people!"

It will most likely say they left the game or something just as discreet.

The word won't be spread.

Unless they've found a way to address this, in which case I'm just babbling.

As hilarious as that would be, I assume word-of-mouth would cut it. Remember cliques still exist. People have groups of similar minded people they like to play games with.

So say if little johnny is in a group of similar minded friends, and one day he gets perma-banned, even if it doesn't say why they'll have a good idea.

Plus outside communication on top of that. etc etc

I certainly hope you're right.

And it's very possible you are. I just think they need a more definitive way than word of mouth.

Plus, how many of those kids even have friends?

 

[slipknot4]

Are you telling me that someone with the tag "Slipknot4" is going to get upset at being told to get back to the kitchen??? Slipknot starts the song 'Disasterpiece' with the sentence "I'm going to slit your throat, and **** the wound", and you're going to condemn someone for the use of a sexist comment?

Full disclosure: I'm a huge Sliknot fan. Just pointing out the mind-boggling hypocrisy of getting offended at "get back to the kitchen", and not that act of absurd violence.

What can I say. A lot has happened in 3-4 years and I've tried to change the tag more than once.

 

[Calcium]

What we're talking about is COMPLETELY REMOVING THEIR ABILITY TO PLAY ONLINE, because someone found their remarks "sexist"...

Right now, what we're talking about is a community that has become a by-word for steady streams of homophobic, racist, and sexist insults being hurtled at anyone in the general vicinity. Liberal application of perma-bans sounds about right.

And then the by-word will be "X-box Live? What's that?"

Real people have racist and sexist attitudes they don't express in polite company. If you make X-box live polite company, they'll leave, your financial base will tank, and you'll have to go ruin something else.

Basically Halo's getting the Dragon Age 2 treatment. Guess the people in charge of the franchise ran out of ideas to steal, which is probably why they sold it to a woman-owned company in the first place.

Just one more reason to join the PC gaming master race.

Why would they leave?
It's not a place to vent bigotry. It's a place for playing games. If they'd really leave because there's repercussions to being an asshole that takes the fun out of other people's experiences, good fucking riddance.
My sister never use voice chat and usually pretend to be a guy online, just because there's so much damn sexism. People instantly hitting on her is one thing; she can take that. But there's almost invariably assholes that go for "back to the kitchen" attitudes once they find out she's actually a woman. No one should have to deal with that shit, male or female.

PC Elitists don't use reason. They're not that different from stereotypical xbox live users either. I've seen too many Starcraft 2 streams recently with pc gamers complaining that there's nothing wrong with 'jokes' like "I abused a 14 year old." And seriously, I've never seen a Twitch comments section where that wasn't the majority view.

(Situation referred to: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120107-Pro-Gamer-Suspended-For-Saying-He-Had-Sex-With-a-14-Year-Old )

 

[AnarchistAbe]

...I've had a lot of fun times absolutely ruined by people telling me to go get in the kitchen.

Why? Why do you let some dumbass on XBL ruin YOUR good time? People say stupid shit sometimes. They're going to say stuff that offends you. But if your good time is lost because they say something to hurt you, then their job is complete. YOU give them power. YOU allow them to ruin your good time. If I got offended and stopped having fun every time somebody insulted me, I'd be a shut-in with no friends and little-to-no human interaction...

TL;DR: Screw them. Have fun, and don't let a little prick on the internet ruin your fun time.

 

[Formica Archonis]

This is a kind of odd mission statement from the people who made Cortana notably more sexualised.

Well, I'm sure this is going to go over well with their targetted demographic: (snip image)

<img src="http://s91291220.onlinehome.us/formica/cortanath.jpg" align=right height=170 width=228>
As someone who is currently staring at Cortana's knockers (I'm not calling them "breasts" because I don't think the devs deserve that level of biological legitimacy) because of their prominence in the Halo 4 Mission 3 training materials direct from Microsoft, I'd like to concur. Seriously, there's a Powerpoint up RIGHT NOW where the left side of the screen is listing the things I'm supposed to learn in order to sell the thing better and the entire right side of the screen is a shot of Cortana. Hold on, I can't get a shot of any quality but I think I can get something....

There.

EDIT: Okay, they've finally switched it out for a shot of Master Chief because apparently I have to know the entire history of the Spartans to sell this game.

EDIT 2: OK, they changed it out a few more times for things relevant to the text, but the summary page? Back to Cortana.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Are you telling me that someone with the tag "Slipknot4" is going to get upset at being told to get back to the kitchen??? Slipknot starts the song 'Disasterpiece' with the sentence "I'm going to slit your throat, and **** the wound", and you're going to condemn someone for the use of a sexist comment?

Full disclosure: I'm a huge Sliknot fan. Just pointing out the mind-boggling hypocrisy of getting offended at "get back to the kitchen", and not that act of absurd violence.

What can I say. A lot has happened in 3-4 years and I've tried to change the tag more than once.

Not trying to be a dick, but I would truly like to understand the logic behind this: What is the mentality behind letting some random person on the internet offend you? Honestly, I, personally, can't fathom it. This is a person that I have never met, don't know anything about, and will probably never see again. However, they have the ability to make me stop enjoying something because they offend me in some way?

 

[Erttheking]

I just remembered that Halo Reach had an option to mute everyone except your friends.

Why don't people just use that?

because people can't just simply be "offended" these days, they can't just shrug and move along.

something must be done anytime someone says something you might not like.


*gasp!* those vocal sound rifts in the air offended my ears! PERMABAN THEIR GAME!

Uh...no. Online networks need to have standards that are enforced, otherwise they just turn into playgrounds for assholes. This kind of crap is against the Xbox Live code of conduct and they should be punished for breaking existing rules that they promised to abide by when they created their account. Besides, we shouldn't just give a free pass to these guys and say "just ignore them" it's going to ruin someone else's fun, knowing that they have to hide away from the general community of Xbox live just to have a good time online, knowing that they have to hide who they are.

 

[Kargathia]

What we're talking about is COMPLETELY REMOVING THEIR ABILITY TO PLAY ONLINE, because someone found their remarks "sexist"...

Right now, what we're talking about is a community that has become a by-word for steady streams of homophobic, racist, and sexist insults being hurtled at anyone in the general vicinity. Liberal application of perma-bans sounds about right.

Why not just apply a ban to their voice-communication privileges? Why do they need to be completely banned from the service for speaking? Personally, I'm happy every time someone says something to offend me. Why, you ask? Because I am privileged to be in a country where I have the right to get offended, and they have the right to say whatever offensive statement they want to make.

The 'Mute' function is there for a reason. Use it. But don't demand that someone should lose their ability to play, because you're too sensitive and they aren't PC.

There indeed is a strong case to be made for merely taking away voice communication privileges.

Personally I am not female, black, homosexual, or belonging to any other category frequently insulted, so I can hardly say I feel discriminated. Sensitivity to puerile insults also is quite low, but that doesn't mean I won't fully support a dev trying to make its service more inclusive by removing the ones intent on ruining it for others.

Everyone certainly has the freedom to be offensive, but just as I have the freedom to remove anyone acting like a Halo kiddie from my house, so does 343 have the freedom to remove them from their game.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

There indeed is a strong case to be made for merely taking away voice communication privileges.

Personally I am not female, black, homosexual, or belonging to any other category frequently insulted, so I can hardly say I feel discriminated. Sensitivity to puerile insults also is quite low, but that doesn't mean I won't fully support a dev trying to make its service more inclusive by removing the ones intent on ruining it for others.

Everyone certainly has the freedom to be offensive, but just as I have the freedom to remove anyone acting like a Halo kiddie from my house, so does 343 have the freedom to remove them from their game.

One of my favorite quotes of all this is as follows:

"As tolerant people, we must tolerate other people's intolerance; or we, ourselves, are intolerant."

I don't necessarily have to agree with someone's prejudices or remarks; but I'll damn well defend ANYONE'S ability to make those remarks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom to say what you want, as long as it won't offend anybody...". It means freedom to say what you want, when you want, wherever you want, without fear of persecution or consequence. It's a glorious thing that we can be offended by someone, and it's something that people take for granted.

 

[Erttheking]

There indeed is a strong case to be made for merely taking away voice communication privileges.

Personally I am not female, black, homosexual, or belonging to any other category frequently insulted, so I can hardly say I feel discriminated. Sensitivity to puerile insults also is quite low, but that doesn't mean I won't fully support a dev trying to make its service more inclusive by removing the ones intent on ruining it for others.

Everyone certainly has the freedom to be offensive, but just as I have the freedom to remove anyone acting like a Halo kiddie from my house, so does 343 have the freedom to remove them from their game.

One of my favorite quotes of all this is as follows:

"As tolerant people, we must tolerate other people's intolerance; or we, ourselves, are intolerant."

I don't necessarily have to agree with someone's prejudices or remarks; but I'll damn well defend ANYONE'S ability to make those remarks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom to say what you want, as long as it won't offend anybody...". It means freedom to say what you want, when you want, wherever you want, without fear of persecution or consequence. It's a glorious thing that we can be offended by someone, and it's something that people take for granted.

Yeah, but here's the thing though, Xbox live has a code of conduct, much like the Escapist has one, and if you break it then you get banned. Part of the code of conduct is not being racist and homophobic and sexist etc. I'm like you in that I think we shouldn't take the UK route and make hate speech illegal, but unlike you I don't think that people can just say whatever they feel like wherever they feel like, there are just some points where people need to just shut up and a public service used by millions is one of those places. That's why on the Escapist I would get banned if I called someone the n-word and it's why this policy is getting implemented and it's why I applaud it.

 

[themechanic]

xbox has a plethora of mute options I dont' see this as necessary but as long as its scarcely enforced I don't see too big a deal with it. Trash talk is fun, part of the meta game. Pissing off your opponent seizing off that one thing you pick up in the 1st few seconds is part of the experience, sexist racist, extreme violence, absurdities, mocking are all imo fair game especially since the option not to hear it is literally either a permanent option or pressing x.

I've never heard such crying over something that has been solved for a decade.


Might not be able say something sexist, but we'll still be able to teabag lol.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

the fact that there are marines, even ODSTs, and Spartans who are females only adds to the credibility of the franchise.

How?

Anywho, how come I feel like SOMEONE out there will see this as a bad thing?

Because it is. If there's a real "zero-tolerance" policy, then expect plenty of people to get banned because they won, and the guy who lost can't take it, so he accuses them of calling him a ******. or harassing the female players. If there's NOT a policy to instantly ban transgressors, then this is shameless media pandering.

Only a few more days......go faster......

This is the biggest problem, right here. You idea that you're looking forward to this game so much.


on another note "My gender had nothing to do with my promotion"
Who said it did? If anything I'd expect being a woman to make it HARDER to get named the head honcho.

Anyway, unless they come out saying "zero-tolerance" doesn't mean that, and instead means "careful review of complaints" then yes, this is a bad thing. Then again, if half the playerbase gets banned from XBL then it may just kill the game. which would make me happy

 

[Tohuvabohu]

One of my favorite quotes of all this is as follows:

"As tolerant people, we must tolerate other people's intolerance; or we, ourselves, are intolerant."

I don't necessarily have to agree with someone's prejudices or remarks; but I'll damn well defend ANYONE'S ability to make those remarks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom to say what you want, as long as it won't offend anybody...". It means freedom to say what you want, when you want, wherever you want, without fear of persecution or consequence. It's a glorious thing that we can be offended by someone, and it's something that people take for granted.

But that glorious freedom isn't exactly a part of Xbox Live's code of conduct, which you agree to abide by in order to play online. You use their service, and the ultimate bottom line is that you must follow the code of conduct to keep using it. As unfair as that is to your concept of freedom of speech, Rules are rules.

 

[Callate]

Halo 4 is due out November 6th, exclusively for the Xbox 360.

...And by November 13th, its multiplayer base will have shrunk to one-quarter that of its launch date.

Zero-tolerance sounds all macho (macha?) and everything, and I'm definitely not a fan of bullying and the trash-talk culture that permeates some games. But zero tolerance- no warning- that covers everything from a single questionable joke to out-and-out screaming of obscenities into the microphone doesn't really sound like the best way to handle it.

 

[Kargathia]

There indeed is a strong case to be made for merely taking away voice communication privileges.

Personally I am not female, black, homosexual, or belonging to any other category frequently insulted, so I can hardly say I feel discriminated. Sensitivity to puerile insults also is quite low, but that doesn't mean I won't fully support a dev trying to make its service more inclusive by removing the ones intent on ruining it for others.

Everyone certainly has the freedom to be offensive, but just as I have the freedom to remove anyone acting like a Halo kiddie from my house, so does 343 have the freedom to remove them from their game.

One of my favorite quotes of all this is as follows:

"As tolerant people, we must tolerate other people's intolerance; or we, ourselves, are intolerant."

I don't necessarily have to agree with someone's prejudices or remarks; but I'll damn well defend ANYONE'S ability to make those remarks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom to say what you want, as long as it won't offend anybody...". It means freedom to say what you want, when you want, wherever you want, without fear of persecution or consequence. It's a glorious thing that we can be offended by someone, and it's something that people take for granted.

Generally I prefer to follow the line of reasoning that one's freedoms end where they start to infringe on those of others.
In this case that means that I consider the right of eg. women to play Halo without fear of consistent abuse to be somewhat more important than the right of others to be a jerk.

I'd also like to note that there is a significant difference between "being offended", and "facing consistent and unrelenting verbal abuse".

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Yeah, but here's the thing though, Xbox live has a code of conduct, much like the Escapist has one, and if you break it then you get banned. Part of the code of conduct is not being racist and homophobic and sexist etc. I'm like you in that I think we shouldn't take the UK route and make hate speech illegal, but unlike you I don't think that people can just say whatever they feel like wherever they feel like, there are just some points where people need to just shut up and a public service used by millions is one of those places. That's why on the Escapist I would get banned if I called someone the n-word and it's why this policy is getting implemented and it's why I applaud it.

True. You are absolutely correct that it's THEIR service, and THEIR rules go. I can respect that. However, I'm playing the devil's advocate here that maybe permabans aren't necessarily the best way to accomplish this. Although,honestly, what do they care? By the time they ban you, they already have your $60, lol.

 

[TK421]

Is there? Is "*****" a sexist remark? Is it sexist when I say it to a female, but not when I say it to a male? Is it worth a permaban to joke about "getting back to the kitchen"? Why is it ok for me to be as blatantly racist as possible, but sexism is off limits? Who determines these invisible lines which we can't cross, or we are banned from the service forever?

These are all questions you have to ask. I'm not saying the IDEA is bad. I'm saying that permabans are bad. Find these players, and remove their in-game chat privileges, or temp-ban them for 24 - 48 hours. What we're talking about is COMPLETELY REMOVING THEIR ABILITY TO PLAY ONLINE, because someone found their remarks "sexist"...

This is the only problem I can see with this plan. Xbox live definitely needs to be reigned in some, but you have to be careful with how you do that. I think having the same kind of system that LoL does to deal with problems could work reasonably well here.

Ex:Someone reports you, others look at your history of reports and look at the player(s) that have reported you to try and ascertain why you were reported and if it is an ongoing issue, or just a one-time thing.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Generally I prefer to follow the line of reasoning that one's freedoms end where they start to infringe on those of others.
In this case that means that I consider the right of eg. women to play Halo without fear of consistent abuse to be somewhat more important than the right of others to be a jerk.

I'd also like to note that there is a significant difference between "being offended", and "facing consistent and unrelenting verbal abuse".

Consistent and unrelenting verbal abuse, yes. I agree. However, this seems to be written in such a way that I could get permabanned for using any remotely sexist term, even in a non-sexist way, simply because someone cries "sexism".