Halo 4: Why does everyone hate Sarah Palmer?

[Kolby Jack]

I mean, sure, she says egghead a lot and she's pretty no-nonsense, mission-first, but she's not what I would call a "*****" or anything like that.

Spoiler: Is it because...

She shot Dr. Halsey? She was following orders, AND when she made the shot Doctor Halsey was literally in an Elite's arms about to be taken away. It may be cold, but it's a reasonable wartime tactic to kill high-value assets rather than let them be captured. Halsey was ALREADY captured, and she's basically as high-value an asset as you can get, AND she hasn't exactly proven herself to be trustworthy during her time on the Infinity.

Yet a lot of people seem to regard her as this hyper-***** with a stick up her ass. I just don't see it. Can anyone explain?

 

[shrimpcel]

It's because those "eggheads" she hates so much are the ones that came up with the technology that allows her to survive over 5 seconds against the Covenant.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I was not aware that people did hate her. I like her myself. She seems to have a bit of a sense of humor. I mean, who walks up to the hero who saved the entire human race--and the galaxy for that matter--and says, "I thought you'd be taller"? That takes some serious confidence.
Plus, my friends and I like to joke that she's Commander Shepard. That she got teleported to the Halo universe after the end of Mass Effect because I mean, come on. Bad ass soldier, same voice, and red hair? It's clearly her.

As for shooting Halsey, Halsey is not on good terms with the UNSC right now, or more specifically, ONI. Now that the war is over, she's having to answer for the crimes against humanity that she committed when she made the first Spartans. However, her attitude of, "I'm above the law" is starting to rub people the wrong way, and there are people lining up to kill her. She is a monster to a lot of people. A lot. So it's no surprise that Sarah took the shot. Plus, as you said, she's a liability. She was willingly helping Jul behind the UNSC's back, and with the technology on Onyx, they can't risk Jul getting help using it. Sarah did the right thing.

 

[Foolery]

Didn't hate her, just found her boring and obnoxious. Also she's annoying to listen to in Spartan Ops.

 

[skywolfblue]

Sarah Palmer was actually pretty much my favorite character from Halo 4 (admittedly that's not saying much).

I thought she was a pretty cool badass with a sense of humor.
I do think she had a pretty darn good reason for trying to shoot Halsey.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Well I found most of the humans in Halo 4 to be absolute pricks, but that has less to do with bad writing as much as it has to do with the UNSC pulling a 180 on their foreign policy following the war. The colonies are rioting again, and the UNSC are jacking technology off the Huragok Engineers to put pressure on the Sangheilli. Because the humans are just as big a bunch of bigoted xenophobic assholes as the covenant are.

 

[Erttheking]

Because she refuses to stop being a snarky pain in the ass for five seconds and acts like a complete and utter jackass to everyone, with one or two exceptions. She felt like Commander Shepard if all the charm got sucked out. Also if I hear the word Egghead come out of her mouth one more time...

 

[Korten12]

Well I found most of the humans in Halo 4 to be absolute pricks, but that has less to do with bad writing as much as it has to do with the UNSC pulling a 180 on their foreign policy following the war. The colonies are rioting again, and the UNSC are jacking technology off the Huragok Engineers to put pressure on the Sangheilli. Because the humans are just as big a bunch of bigoted xenophobic assholes as the covenant are.

Yeah I find that it's weird that a species put to the brink of death, lost billions upon billions of lives are xenophobic against the Covenant. Who would have thunk?

Sorry, not saying it's "good" that they're but it's understandable.

This wasn't Mass Effect, this wasn't a war that lasted less than a year before another government stepped in. This was a war of extermination that lasted 27 years.

The UNSC aren't xenophobic by nature, the Covenant ensured they would be.

One last thing... "180" on foreign policy? Before the war i'm pretty sure it didn't include aliens.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Well I found most of the humans in Halo 4 to be absolute pricks, but that has less to do with bad writing as much as it has to do with the UNSC pulling a 180 on their foreign policy following the war. The colonies are rioting again, and the UNSC are jacking technology off the Huragok Engineers to put pressure on the Sangheilli. Because the humans are just as big a bunch of bigoted xenophobic assholes as the covenant are.

Yeah I find that it's weird that a species put to the brink of death, lost billions upon billions of lives are xenophobic against the Covenant. Who would have thunk?

Sorry, not saying it's "good" that they're but it's understandable.

This wasn't Mass Effect, this wasn't a war that lasted less than a year before another government stepped in. This was a war of extermination that lasted 27 years.

The UNSC aren't xenophobic by nature, the Covenant ensured they would be.

One last thing... "180" on foreign policy? Before the war i'm pretty sure it didn't include aliens.

They brokered an alliance with the Sangheilli that helped put an end to nearly three decades of conflict. And then promptly stabbed them in the back as soon as it was convenient for ONI to do so. The rebel factions of Covenant that the UNSC fight in Halo 4 are directly the result of ONI meddling in Sangheilli affairs. Way to show gratitude to the only species in the Covenant that regarded humans as more than just vermin.

I'd call the sudden reversal of attitude towards the Sangheilli in light of their contributions in destroying the covenant a 180 on foreign policy. They backstabbed their new allies and now they're using it as justification to rearm and go on the offensive.

At least as far as the timeline goes, Sanghelios is still under the control of rationals like Thel Vadam and Rtas Vadum. The short story The Return takes place a few years after Halo 4, where the bulk of the Sangheilli loyalists that didn't join the rogue Forerunner faction are still pushing against the Jiralhanae and the Prophets. So while I think that the UNSC made a huge blunder instigating civil war among their allies, it's good to know that most of the Sangheilli are still loyal to the Arbiter.

 

[Korten12]

Well I found most of the humans in Halo 4 to be absolute pricks, but that has less to do with bad writing as much as it has to do with the UNSC pulling a 180 on their foreign policy following the war. The colonies are rioting again, and the UNSC are jacking technology off the Huragok Engineers to put pressure on the Sangheilli. Because the humans are just as big a bunch of bigoted xenophobic assholes as the covenant are.

Yeah I find that it's weird that a species put to the brink of death, lost billions upon billions of lives are xenophobic against the Covenant. Who would have thunk?

Sorry, not saying it's "good" that they're but it's understandable.

This wasn't Mass Effect, this wasn't a war that lasted less than a year before another government stepped in. This was a war of extermination that lasted 27 years.

The UNSC aren't xenophobic by nature, the Covenant ensured they would be.

One last thing... "180" on foreign policy? Before the war i'm pretty sure it didn't include aliens.

They brokered an alliance with the Sangheilli that helped put an end to nearly three decades of conflict. And then promptly stabbed them in the back as soon as it was convenient for ONI to do so. The rebel factions of Covenant that the UNSC fight in Halo 4 are directly the result of ONI meddling in Sangheilli affairs. Way to show gratitude to the only species in the Covenant that regarded humans as more than just vermin.

I'd call the sudden reversal of attitude towards the Sangheilli in light of their contributions in destroying the covenant a 180 on foreign policy. They backstabbed their new allies and now they're using it as justification to rearm and go on the offensive.

At least as far as the timeline goes, Sanghelios is still under the control of rationals like Thel Vadam and Rtas Vadum. The short story The Return takes place a few years after Halo 4, where the bulk of the Sangheilli loyalists that didn't join the rogue Forerunner faction are still pushing against the Jiralhanae and the Prophets. So while I think that the UNSC made a huge blunder instigating civil war among their allies, it's good to know that most of the Sangheilli are still loyal to the Arbiter.

Thing is though they didn't make allies with the Sangheili because they liked them, they made allies with them for convinence, the enemy of my enemy is my friends, well once you remove the mutual enemy there is no need to keep being allies with your former enemies. Humanity was pushed back, Earth being under attack, they didn't want to have to ally with the Elites but there was no choice, ally or die.

They were also allies for mere months, I don't think that's enough to wash away 27 years of bad blood. It's bad but people aren't so forgiving.

As for ONI backstabbing them, that's ONI, it's what they do. It's not good that they supplied terrorists but parts of the UNSC had no idea this was going on, not even Hood, so I wouldn't say that is for all of Humanity.

Also if it's any consolation, the UNSC Infinity in the newest comics have been trying to keep peace between themselves, the Elites, and Brutes. (Is that what you were referring to at the end?)

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Also if it's any consolation, the UNSC Infinity in the newest comics have been trying to keep peace between themselves, the Elites, and Brutes. (Is that what you were referring to at the end?)

I'm referring to a short story that was adapted into a motion comic. It dealt with a remorseful Elite captain who returns to the first human colony he glassed, feeling guilt over his actions. The timeline places this event a few years after Halo 4, so at least some of the Elites are still on tepid, but not outright hostile grounds with humans.

 

[Korten12]

Also if it's any consolation, the UNSC Infinity in the newest comics have been trying to keep peace between themselves, the Elites, and Brutes. (Is that what you were referring to at the end?)

I'm referring to a short story that was adapted into a motion comic. It dealt with a remorseful Elite captain who returns to the first human colony he glassed, feeling guilt over his actions. The timeline places this event a few years after Halo 4, so at least some of the Elites are still on tepid, but not outright hostile grounds with humans.

Oh yeah I know of that. I just thought you may be also referring to the comic. I would say when it comes to that short story... It's canon as of the current moment but depending on the comic, The Return maybe no longer canon. May, they have been doing a good job at making things work together, however the newest comic has been trying to make peace between the Sangheili and Brutes, so if that works...

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Also if it's any consolation, the UNSC Infinity in the newest comics have been trying to keep peace between themselves, the Elites, and Brutes. (Is that what you were referring to at the end?)

I'm referring to a short story that was adapted into a motion comic. It dealt with a remorseful Elite captain who returns to the first human colony he glassed, feeling guilt over his actions. The timeline places this event a few years after Halo 4, so at least some of the Elites are still on tepid, but not outright hostile grounds with humans.

Oh yeah I know of that. I just thought you may be also referring to the comic. I would say when it comes to that short story... It's canon as of the current moment but depending on the comic, The Return maybe no longer canon. May, they have been doing a good job at making things work together, however the newest comic has been trying to make peace between the Sangheili and Brutes, so if that works...

That's one of the upsides of Halo's canon, however. Compared to something like, say, the Star Wars Expanded Universe, the Halo EU has made a concentrated effort to stay consistent with the games, and the games have in turn reciprocated that. I may think that Halo Anniversary was a missed opportunity to overhaul Halo 1, but I appreciated all the nods to books like The Fall of Reach and First Strike sprinkled through the special logs and easter eggs. There's a concentrated effort to make sure things stay cohesive, without dragging players or readers down in confusion over what just happened in a cutscene.

The rogue covenant faction from Halo 4 first makes its appearance in the Kilo Five trilogy, which revolves around an ONI black ops team sent to destabilize Sanghelios in the midst of Thel Vadam's reformations. While the Arbiter pushes for the Elites to redevelop their economy free of Covenant influence, extremist factions that contested the Schism with the Prophets rise up. Kilo Five conveniently is on hand to stir the pot.

ONI was also responsible for the UNSC Infinity, after they extracted major technological advances from a Huragok Engineer. So that's two things that one book series managed to explain in Halo 4 without confusing players. Some people might think that four years after a near extinction is pretty quick for Earth to recover, but with the arms race that was raging behind the scenes (Spartan III program, ONI black ops missions, intelligence gathering from ODST), it's a little more plausible to see humanity building back a strong army.

I just find that most of the people in Halo 4, particularly in Spartan Ops, are complete jackasses. I don't have to like it, but that's what they are. Halsey is an extremist and supremely arrogant, the Spartan IVs are really arrogant, and there's maybe a handful of sympathetic characters among the cast whom I don't want to punch. But Spartan IVs are made up of former IIs, IIIs and ODSTs, so it's understandable to get some of the blowhards in their ranks.

 

[SKBPinkie]

Because a chick who has a "dudebro" attitude is not a well-written character. It's a tired trope. And no, I'm not saying that female characters shouldn't be strong. Look at any of the female characters in Avatar: TLA. Pretty much all of them are fantastic.

There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but Palmer crosses that line, and goes so far into arrogance territory that literally anything she says annoys me.

Plus, having an attitude like that might work, only if you're incredibly badass. There's a very small chance that it will work, but when it does - it's glorious. To bring back my TLA example, look at Toph. She's easily one of the strongest characters in the series and her attitude is very well-deserved. It doesn't feel like try-hard-y or like she's compensating.

And like you said, her thing about "eggheads" gets obnoxious very quickly. It's like if an F1 driver called his engineers a bunch of nerds / losers. Not only is that awful teamwork, it's incredibly childish.

 

[Zetatrain]

Well I found most of the humans in Halo 4 to be absolute pricks, but that has less to do with bad writing as much as it has to do with the UNSC pulling a 180 on their foreign policy following the war. The colonies are rioting again, and the UNSC are jacking technology off the Huragok Engineers to put pressure on the Sangheilli. Because the humans are just as big a bunch of bigoted xenophobic assholes as the covenant are.

Yeah I find that it's weird that a species put to the brink of death, lost billions upon billions of lives are xenophobic against the Covenant. Who would have thunk?

Sorry, not saying it's "good" that they're but it's understandable.

This wasn't Mass Effect, this wasn't a war that lasted less than a year before another government stepped in. This was a war of extermination that lasted 27 years.

The UNSC aren't xenophobic by nature, the Covenant ensured they would be.

One last thing... "180" on foreign policy? Before the war i'm pretty sure it didn't include aliens.

They brokered an alliance with the Sangheilli that helped put an end to nearly three decades of conflict. And then promptly stabbed them in the back as soon as it was convenient for ONI to do so. The rebel factions of Covenant that the UNSC fight in Halo 4 are directly the result of ONI meddling in Sangheilli affairs. Way to show gratitude to the only species in the Covenant that regarded humans as more than just vermin.

I'd call the sudden reversal of attitude towards the Sangheilli in light of their contributions in destroying the covenant a 180 on foreign policy. They backstabbed their new allies and now they're using it as justification to rearm and go on the offensive.

At least as far as the timeline goes, Sanghelios is still under the control of rationals like Thel Vadam and Rtas Vadum. The short story The Return takes place a few years after Halo 4, where the bulk of the Sangheilli loyalists that didn't join the rogue Forerunner faction are still pushing against the Jiralhanae and the Prophets. So while I think that the UNSC made a huge blunder instigating civil war among their allies, it's good to know that most of the Sangheilli are still loyal to the Arbiter.

Admiral Hood brokered the alliance with the Arbiter. Unfortunately the two are in the minority within there own respective species and always have been.
The alliance didn't end the war. The war ended because the Covenant Civil War broke the Covenant and because the Flood posed a bigger threat. The alliance between the Humans and Elites was purely out of necessity. Its not like the Sangheilli or the humans did anything out of love for each other. And the majority of the Elites have always viewed humans as vermin (before and after the war).

The Covenant remnants in halo 4 fight because they still believe in their old religion. They aren't even aware that humanity had a hand in the Sangheilli Civil War. Only their leader Jul'Mdamma knows of this, but he gets his followers to do his bidding playing into their religious beliefs (much like Prophets once did).

I should point out that even before ONI started plotting against the Sangheilli, the prevailing opinion throughout the Sangheilli was that Humanity is a blight upon the galaxy and that there could never be peace between them. Even those loyal to the Arbiter don't particularly like Humanity.

And unfortunately the majority of the Sangheilli are not loyal to the Arbiter. In "The Thursday War" the Arbiter was nearly toppled by a rebellion something that probably wouldn't have happened if the majority of Sangheilli were loyal to him.

Long story short the majority of humanity and the Sangheilli don't like each other. Had the Sangheilli not been worse off than humanity after the war there would be factions plotting against Humanity. ONI just simply beat them to it.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Stuff

Sangheili fanatics dislike humans, yes. But that isn't what I meant. In terms of combat prowess, Elites respected humans for their tenacity and effective use of outdated (by their standards) technology. I recall reading that several Elites shared the opinion early on that the Covenant should have welcomed humans into the fold. It was only due to machinations by the Prophets and the Brutes that spun first contact into the genocidal campaign the war turned into.

 

[spartandude]

Sarah Palmer was actually pretty much my favorite character from Halo 4 (admittedly that's not saying much).

I thought she was a pretty cool badass with a sense of humor.
I do think she had a pretty darn good reason for trying to shoot Halsey.

2nd favourite for me, Roland being mt #1.

But i know alot of people who hate her purely for the "I thought you'd be taller" comment when she meets Master Chief.

 

[Evonisia]

I don't hate her, I just think she's boring.

To be fair to her the only characters I liked in Halo 4 would be Cortana (that rampancy story does hit me in the feels, even it's stupid ending) and that woman scientist you meet at the station near Installation 05.