Halo Reach; does it kill the novel?

[Slycne]

I see what it's saying, and I've heard the idea before. Still, either one thing is true or not, and declaring on thing fact while simultaneously putting down something you once claimed as fact is not something I can very well wrap my head around, at least as far as fiction goes. I think you should just stay true at all times to even the most minute detail, otherwise it bothers the hell out of me when I hear the story. It just changes things that were previous facts to suit its needs; that's a horrible storytelling mechanic. Therefore, something is either canon or it isn't, and things that conflict with previously stated things break canon. I hate it when things do this, and then every fanboy defends it and claims it isn't broken.

Strict adherence to canon is not always a good thing, especially when you are discussing a change of medium. Quality often becomes almost directly proportional to willingness to make changes. I love the novels, but slapping down the three Lord of the Rings books with a screenplay post-it note on top would have made for much weaker films. It actually makes for better story telling, because what works well in a book might not translate well to interactive entertainment, film, etc.

Now that's not to say that everything should be changed with no regard to the existing fiction and we can discuss the fine details of where the line in drawn, but when push comes to shove and you are forced into one or the other - would you rather it be an accurate experience or a better experience?

 

[Chibz]

People read the novel? Weird.

 

[Pyode]

numerous authors writing 40k lore for the past 20 years. ohdeargodweredoibegin. Ciaphas Cain-not enough grimdark
SPACE MARINE BOOK 700-TO MUCH GRIMDARK
Horus Heresy series-Books are great, but, they have done major retcons
Retcons that arent retcons, retcons that we didnt know were retcons.

without the devil messing around with peter parkers marriage.
and with more chainswords and GRIMDARKKKKKKK
also an entire species have been retconned from space rats to SPACE WORMTHINGS

also one of the main alien races went from having hoofed feet, to just having messed up toes...overnight. but it all breaks down to to many cooks in the kitchen, all trying to cook the same dish...in everyway possible.

The problem that most Bungie fans have though is that it wasn't just a bunch of different authors doing their own thing. From the beginning, Bungie was working directly with every single part of the Halo EU.

Eric Nylund (the author of the books most effected by all of this retconning) had to send a draft of the book directly to the lead writers at Bungie to make absolutely sure he didn't contradict anything they had planned for the story. They also worked directly with Ensemble studios on the story of Halo Wars in much the same way. Contact Harvest, (the first major breach of the cannon) was written by the lead writer at Bungie, Joseph Staten.

Ever since before Halo 2, Bungie has stated over and over again that all of the books, all of the comics, all of the anime (except Odd One Out) where cannon. But now, they have decided to completely disregard all of that and hack up the earlier stuff (especially Nylund's work). That is what pisses people like me off. If it had simply been Microsoft licensing out the rights to other people who end up doing their own thing and fucking up the cannon, I wouldn't be nearly as upset.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

No, it doesn't. I would take the time to explain, but anything I would say would be incompetent compared to this, so just look at Trivun's post.

Spoiler: Large amounts of text

Okay, normally I am loathe to do an '/thread' on threads, but right now I have three items that anyone can get, plus a web resource, that will definitively prove that regardless of fanboyism, the canon of Halo and the events surrounding Reach's fall are indeed not messed up, and do fit perfectly together. These are:

-The actual game, Halo: Reach.
- The book, The Fall Of Reach.
- The accompaniment to the game, Doctor Halsey's Journal (and yes, anyone can get that, it's been copied and put online by people and the details are widespread on the internet if you just Google it...).

Everything is explained within the canon, and the locations and knowledge of all important characters is reconciled by these three together. As for the timeline? I direct you to the web resource.

- A timeline of the Fall of Reach, backed up by Word of God (i.e. top Bungie and Microsoft executives and developers).

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Fall_of_Reach#Timeline

This explains everything, and shows exactly how it all fits together. I will answer here the three biggest questions that anyone usually has about the canonicity, to show how it makes sense.

1. Doctor Halsey had no idea that the Spartan-IIIs existed, yet she knew about NOBLE Team during the planet's fall.

Well, actually, she had already suspected the existence of a similar program to the ORION Project, but not the S-III project that Ackerson was doing. She never, EVER, mentions 'SPARTAN-III' during the game, and it's been classed as fact all along that she'd already had suspicions for a long time about a similar project, as stated with her finding the S-II and King Under The Mountain files in the book The Fall Of Reach, as well as the suspicions stated in her personal journal. She was still surprised, therefore, in Ghosts of Onyx, when she met Spartan-IIIs, because she didn't realise the full truth until then. It all fits with what we see in the game, and the established canon. No discrepancies whatsoever. Also, note that the armour of the Spartan-IIIs she later meets is very different to the NOBLE Team armour, which would also cause surprise later on...

2. The Pillar Of Autumn had already left Reach's system, heading to the first Halo, when the Covenant started to glass the planet, so how can it still be on Reach in dry dock during the game?

Again, another easy one. If you read the book The Fall Of Reach carefully, you'll realise that there is a decent amount of time where the actions of the Pillar Of Autumn during the space battle above Reach are not accounted for. This is just after John and Linda are sent to the Circumference, and the other Spartan-IIs are sent to the surface to defend the MAC Generators. During that time, when there are no Spartan-IIs on board, it can be inferred, and indeed was confirmed by Word of God, that the Pillar of Autumn received orders to return to dry dock on Reach to receive the partial Cortana copy, as stated in the game and Halsey's journal, something that was otherwise unknown to anyone but Halsey and (NOBLE Team) before then. It also explains why the Autumn left Reach without said copy, before getting it anyway when it returned to help in the space battle. After the events of the game, specifically the level 'The Package', the Autumn got the copy back and returned to the rendezvous point in orbit to await John and Linda's return from the Circumference.

Also, people claim that this isn't true because a Spartan-II is seen in cryo onboard the Autumn in that level of Halo: Reach, in an Easter Egg. Just for the record, EASTER EGGS ARE NOT CANON! That has been established ever since the Egg in the first game after the credits on Legendary, with Johnson and an Elite hugging, so this little tidbit can be disregarded. Again, the canon is intact and preserved, and the timeline is kept intact.

3. How are Covenant on Reach in July if the Autumn doesn't leave and the main attack doesn't begin until mid-late August?

Again, easy. It's explained in Halsey's Journal, and in the game, that the force on Reach near the start are in fact an advance force that made it to Reach by stealth. Indeed, that's the entire point of the first five missions of the game, fully half the Campaign, where you are trying to destroy the main methods of stealth infiltration on Reach and destroy the Covenant ships already present. The full invasion force doesn't arrive until straight afterwards, which is already August, as stated in the Journal, the game, and as was already established in the original book. The dates do match, check yourself if you don't believe me. At this point, the Pillar of Autumn gets the order to return to Reach orbit and help in the battle, thus setting the stage for the second half of the game and the end of the novel. As for the fact that such a stealth invasion is never mentioned in the original novel, it can be inferred that the attack was, until the invasion of New Alexandria (which happened only after the main attack and the Autumn's recall), kept hidden to avoid panic. The attack only occurred in certain areas, specifically near Visegrad (i.e. ONI's Sword Base) and the associated Forerunner installation, so was easily covered up until the decloaking of the Covenant stealth ship in orbit around Reach. This also explains why the Spartan-IIs weren't aware of the attack until later, and we also know that they already had another mission to follow which was important enough that it overrided the Winter Contingency, until the full recall after the full-scale invasion.

Again, canon intact, timeline intact. No discrepancies whatsoever.

By the way, if anyone wants to argue with me, then feel free to let me know your thoughts. I'll enjoy using established canon and logic to dismantle your theories piece by piece . And with that I think I can safely say...

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EDIT: Okay, I've had a look at some other posts here and can actually make one allowance regarding the timeline. The original novel suggests that the entire invasion and fall of Reach happened within a day or two. The space battle itself doesn't seem to match either, given it seems to only last a few hours in the novel. However, later novels, and the games, suggest that despite most ships being able to travel a few thousand kilometres per minute, space battles are shown to be longer, protracted affairs, even using gravity slingshot tactics and whatnot. Plus, ground battles would often take several days, if not weeks. Therefore, I am prepared to accept that the timeline given in the original book is wrong for that battle. This means it's more in line with later books (including later books by the same author), and puts it more in line with the game's continuity. Also, it means there is indeed a greater frame of time in which the Piller of Autumn could have made it to dry dock on Reach's surface while John and Linda were on board the Circumference, while still allowing it time to take down a Covenant stealth ship with it's slingshot approach around Reach.

Also note that this isn't the first time timelines have been in discrepancy in the books. There were massive typos in the first print run, for example, of Ghosts of Onyx, which suggested that the events of the main games were in 2542, ten years too early. Such mistakes have usually been noted by Bungie and accepted as typos, and rectified in later editions, and I trust that the timeline discrepancies in the book The Fall Of Reach will indeed be sorted out in later editions, or in the rumoured rewrite, to bring the book more in line with the newer canon established in the game and Halsey's Journal.

 

[Pyode]

Strict adherence to canon is not always a good thing, especially when you are discussing a change of medium. Quality often becomes almost directly proportional to willingness to make changes. I love the novels, but slapping down the three Lord of the Rings books with a screenplay post-it note on top would have made for much weaker films. It actually makes for better story telling, because what works well in a book might not translate well to interactive entertainment, film, etc.

Now that's not to say that everything should be changed with no regard to the existing fiction and we can discuss the fine details of where the line in drawn, but when push comes to shove and you are forced into one or the other - would you rather it be an accurate experience or a better experience?

I agree completely. When it comes to transferring a specific story to a new medium, sacrifices will need to be made. This is why you'll never hear me complaining about the inconsistencies between Halo: CE and the book Halo: The Flood because it's unreasonable to expect a direct book adaptation of a game to work perfectly.

The problem is all of the other books, comics, and anime take place in the same universe but otherwise don't directly overlap with any of the games. In that case, there is absolutely no reason to contradict anything, especially when Bungie has been claiming to have had the entire story planned out in advance and worked directly with all the different authors to make sure they didn't mess it up.

 

[Tupolev]

Regarding the 'pinkish glow', the 'glow' in the area was in no way big enough to see from orbit, and could only be seen on the ground within the area, obviously,

Reach's satellite network would, if the UNSC had any sense at all, have been scanning the Viery territory for Covenant. Because that's what people do when they're trying to find enemy forces and they have satellites.
Modern-day satellite systems over earth have good enough resolution to pick up individual people, but you're arguing that Reach's network in 2552 can't pick up entire armies that give off pink glows and have 800m-long ships floating about over them? Seems implausible.

Im pretty sure the spires (*im guessing thats what your on about) where under like cliffs or something

look at the background.

You don't need to look at the background, I've played on Spire enough times to know that it's not completely obscured by cliffs (and even if it was, it would still be obvious from many angles).

But that's actually not what I was referring to, I was referring to the Covenant Corvettes that were bumbling about for several weeks, evidently without anyone noticing.

Maybe I'll restate my point with some restructuring.

Here's what's on and above the valley floor as you see it in Nightfall:
-Several huge Spires with massive shiny blue shield structures
-Several Corvette-class vessels, each appx. 800m long based on comparison with UNSC Savannah
-A vividly pink-glowing area that probably spans at least a square mile

Cloud cover in the region, based on what we see in-game, is not even close to complete.

Despite this being the area on Reach where the Covenant are known to make landfall, this force builds up for several weeks without the UNSC's (space-and-non-space-based) vast surveillance network noticing. The area of the buildup is near human settlements which ONI evidently has enough control over to organize evacuations. Yet nobody notices the huge force until, after several weeks of apparantly not worrying too much about intel-gathering, the UNSC decides that maybe it should check out what's going on with the genocidal aliens and sends a competant surveillance team in.


My conclusion? Reach would make a lot more sense internally if it was apparantly timestamped to take place over two or three days than several weeks, and it would have been more acceptable that way to people who consider it to be in factual or spiritual conflict with existing canon.