"Hardcore Gamers" and why these are just words. [Fail Thread]

[loa]

I agree with your over all point, but something about the skyrim part that irks me. I play skyrim a lot, on legendary difficulty. I have never met the conditions you describe, and yet I still feel I play skyrim hardcore. The reason for this is I feel compelled to reroll the moment I break the game, because it is no longer a challenge.

Hardcore for me is about challenge, whether it is inherent in the game, or it is a layer or condition added by the player. Hardcore gamers strive for mastery.

Why do you need that dumbass term "hardcore" if you just said it is about challenge?
Why not cut out the middleman and directly use the term challenge?

Is it because one is something you like while the other is something you are? Are you that insecure?
If you like spicy food, do you also call yourself a hardcore eater and demand a pat on the back for your taste?

 

[ForumSafari]

When I ask him if he's ever heard of Chrono Trigger or Wild Arms, the confusion that comes over his face is ten fold. To this person, the very first rpg was Final Fantasy VII, and don't confuse him for ever playing it. He just knows that was a thing that existed.

. . . and these people call themselves hardcore gamers.

I wouldn't have a clue what a specific little-girl-panty-game was either and I've been gaming since Commander Keen came out.

Not everyone likes Jurrpurgs, maybe he's an ex-Counter Strike player and likes twitch shooters. Maybe he's an RTS fan and has worked out/researched AI quirks for different games. Hell, maybe he's a WRPG fan and has worked out optimal loadouts on a dozen games?

 

[grassgremlin]

Here's how I define hardcore. When you're willing to sit through mountains of text, weapons crafting, complex upgrade trees and map drawing, then you have a right to say you're hardcore.

Here's my definition of "hardcore gamer": a close minded idiot.

Why are you so eager to defend that marketing bullshit?
You're on the same level as someone insisting they are "bamboocha" and that people don't know the True True meaning of that term to me.
That whole "hardcore vs casual" dichotomy, does more harm than good to gaming.
Why perpetuate it? What is it useful for?

Thank you for calling me names. I really needed it after I stating my opinion.
I mean, I didn't need to be told I was wrong in a rational well worded manner, I needed to be called a closed minded idiot for some reason. Thank you for being a wonderful jerk on the internet.

 

[grassgremlin]

Here's how I define hardcore. When you're willing to sit through mountains of text, weapons crafting, complex upgrade trees and map drawing, then you have a right to say you're hardcore.

When you're going through compiling frame data, move properties and technical aspects of a fighting game, then you can be hardcore.

By going with that definition, here's what I think of hardcore gamers: someone who has too much time in their hands and don't know what the hell to do with it.

If doing all these things as you say makes you an hardcore gamer, then yeah, guess that makes you hardcore. What about having fun ?

That's an interesting question actually.
You might have to ask a hardcore gamer, but from what the jist of it, I believe it's fun to take apart a game and rearrange it's components for better control or something?

My friend who's into fighting game hardcore says it's fun seeing how deep a fighting system is.

I do believe hardcore gamers are still having fun, honestly.

 

[grassgremlin]

/snip

Have to agree with you there, a hardcore gamer is not defined by a certain category of games but rather how they play them.
Sure some games may be more attractive to hard core gamers.
But for example a friend of mine turned true hardcore with need for speed underground 2, he decided to beat the game without ever loading, so winning every single race on the first try on hardest difficulty, thats pretty hard core.

MMOS tend to attract hardcore gamers, but its not the game itself that defines one as hardcore gamer, its spending something like 40 hours every week on the game, raiding 3 times a week, checking and optimizing your equipment using analysis sites and tools. Its investing themselves into the games more then the average gamer.

You play skyrim and finish the story -> gamer
You play skyrim, raise nearly every skill to 100, go for 100% map and quest completion end up with something like 500k in the bank so overpowered you just have to sneeze at any enemy for them to drop dead -> hardcore gamer

Pretty much sums it up right there.
Why I always say this debate is just words vs words.

I identify as casual. I use to be hardcore for some games, but these days I don't have the patience. However, I don't talk down anyone for being hardcore because I know how that feels when you get a good game you can just completely dominate with.

Hardcore is getting every achievement and basically being a completionist.

 

[grassgremlin]

When I ask him if he's ever heard of Chrono Trigger or Wild Arms, the confusion that comes over his face is ten fold. To this person, the very first rpg was Final Fantasy VII, and don't confuse him for ever playing it. He just knows that was a thing that existed.

. . . and these people call themselves hardcore gamers.

I wouldn't have a clue what a specific little-girl-panty-game was either and I've been gaming since Commander Keen came out.

Not everyone likes Jurrpurgs, maybe he's an ex-Counter Strike player and likes twitch shooters. Maybe he's an RTS fan and has worked out/researched AI quirks for different games. Hell, maybe he's a WRPG fan and has worked out optimal loadouts on a dozen games?

Chrono Trigger and Wilds Arms are . . . little-girl-panty-games?

Oh, and I was using those as examples. I'm not speaking to the counter strike player, the rts player or the wrpg player. I'm speaking to someone who's only introduction to games are sports and call of duty . . .

Then again, I might be wrong in that wording. You can be a hardcore call of duty player too.

 

[grassgremlin]

Hardcore people get the most fun out of their games. They make the most of them.


Conversely, casuals miss out on half (or more of) the fun by not doing stuff or skipping quests and dialogue and just going to the next action scene.


Because missing out is worse than not missing out, hardcore is better. It's just that simple.

The thing either side needs to realize is your kind of fun is not there kind of fun. My kind of fun is not your kind of fun. What's fun for you is not fun for others, that sort of things.

Many people like short bursts due to a very busy schedule. For me, the more my work too over my hobby the less I game and the more I just want a short and simple experience instead of a deep and engaging one.

It's all about time and how you manage.
Would I like to be much better in a fighter. Of course I do. Do I have the time? Unfortunately, no.

 

[PromethianSpark]

Why do you need that dumbass term "hardcore" if you just said it is about challenge?
Why not cut out the middleman and directly use the term challenge?

Is it because one is something you like while the other is something you are? Are you that insecure?
If you like spicy food, do you also call yourself a hardcore eater and demand a pat on the back for your taste?

This post is actually hilarious. You mention insecurity, and yet nobody seems to be emotional about it except you. You say cut out the middle-man and just say challenge, are you proposing we say challenge gamer? No, I think you believe that we shouldn't use terms to categorize groups of behavior. Except this has been around from along time, and didn't emanate from the community, try googling Bartle's typology of players, or the phrase power gamer.

 

[Phasmal]

Casual and hardcore have very little meaning when you apply them to others, but they can mean a lot when applied to yourself.

For instance, someone who thinks they are `hardcore` might be pissed if they keep hearing `you're not a REAL gamer unless you've played [x]` and `you can't be hardcore unless you complete [game] on [difficulty]!`.

Someone who thinks they are `casual` might get annoyed by being told they're `everything wrong with gaming` and `ruining real games` and suchlike.

I have concocted a simple but effective solution- let people identify as the type of gamer they would like to identify as.
Honestly, what would be the worst thing that could happen if we all did that?

Oh, and don't automatically assume what kind of games someone plays, that's just dumb.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I'll admit I never understood the need for words like "hardcore" or "casual". This discussion proves that nobody can agree on a precise definition for either word.

I'm a gamer. I play anything between Borderlands 2's Mechromancer specced to the Best Friends Forever tree - arguably the game's most "casual" approach - and Civilization V with friends located halfway across the continent. I've never finished XCOM: Enemy Unknown, but damn it if I haven't given it several honest attempts. I tackled Banished's Hard mode before anything else because I honestly relished the prospect of a difficult and ruthless city-building game. I've also played SimCity 4 and the newest SimCity, and I don't give much thought to optimization in these cases. I've sunken hundreds of hours into Skyrim and Oblivion - amounting to a thousand hours or more in total. I've spent insomnia-riddled hours playing Bejeweled and Candy Crush Saga. I've written game reviews and kept close tabs on the industry's business-related aspects thanks to childhood friends that turned into industry workers.

I play games for the lore, sometimes for the challenge, and most often, just to blow off some steam. I'm someone's idea of a hardcore gamer and someone else's idea of a casual. I don't care either way.

All I care about is that I care about games. Trying to weigh in on who cares more than who else and to stick handy words on them just feels like a waste of time.

I mean, think about it. Someone might be an absolute noob at a supposedly "core" title like the newest multimillion shooter, and yet they'd be the first to kick your ass to the proverbial kerb in a round of chess or of Settlers of Catan.

 

[McElroy]

Since my definitions of a hardcore game and gamer are the only right ones, I can and am obliged to continue applying them to every gamer out there. People should form a queue over there and one by one bring themselves and their gaming habits before me for judgement. This is to be repeated every year. Ten bucks per gamer, first time is 50% off.

I have the ability to detect a gamer's "aura", and with this talent it's pretty easy to distinguish which ones are hardcore, casual, and the like. For example if I listen closely I can hear if the aura is chirping and if those chirps come from chocobos, angry birds, or PewDiePie. Even worse than that are the ones that sing pop songs. The most fun aura I encounter is the one belonging to a Dwarf Fortress player. The guitar theme song is easy to make out, but the complex individual visualizations of the dwarves and their fortresses each player has are unique and interesting.

I'm currently in progress of getting my gamer scan to the lawbooks in the EU, so it can become a mandatory procedure in order to qualify for most jobs on the market.

 

[loa]

Here's my definition of "hardcore gamer": a close minded idiot.

Why are you so eager to defend that marketing bullshit?
You're on the same level as someone insisting they are "bamboocha" and that people don't know the True True meaning of that term to me.
That whole "hardcore vs casual" dichotomy, does more harm than good to gaming.
Why perpetuate it? What is it useful for?

Thank you for calling me names. I really needed it after I stating my opinion.
I mean, I didn't need to be told I was wrong in a rational well worded manner, I needed to be called a closed minded idiot for some reason. Thank you for being a wonderful jerk on the internet.

I don't know what to say to you.
You chose to identify as the "close minded idiot" and only further perpetuated that... standard by ignoring my reasoning, claiming all I did was calling you names and then lamenting my lack of reasoning you just chose to ignore.

And for the record no, I did not specifically call you names.
I gave my definition of "hardcore gamer" and then explained why that is my definition.
That is a world of difference from just going "idiot" (which, again for the trigger happy mods, I never did) and not saying anything else.

This post is actually hilarious. You mention insecurity, and yet nobody seems to be emotional about it except you. You say cut out the middle-man and just say challenge, are you proposing we say challenge gamer? No, I think you believe that we shouldn't use terms to categorize groups of behavior. Except this has been around from along time, and didn't emanate from the community, try googling Bartle's typology of players, or the phrase power gamer.

Stop wasting my time with that strawman nonsense, you know exactly what my point is.
I don't think "hardcore gamer" is an useful term, more to the contrary especially in the context of this "hardcore vs casual" mindset which only serves to promote close mindedness.

 

[grassgremlin]

snip

Whoops, sorry, I read your comment wrong. Okay, well let me piece this together then.

Originally I had a wordy response to this, but when your brought up elitism . . .
. . . yeah you're right.

 

[grassgremlin]

Here's how I define hardcore. When you're willing to sit through mountains of text, weapons crafting, complex upgrade trees and map drawing, then you have a right to say you're hardcore.

When you're going through compiling frame data, move properties and technical aspects of a fighting game, then you can be hardcore.

By going with that definition, here's what I think of hardcore gamers: someone who has too much time in their hands and don't know what the hell to do with it.

If doing all these things as you say makes you an hardcore gamer, then yeah, guess that makes you hardcore. What about having fun ?

That's an interesting question actually.
You might have to ask a hardcore gamer, but from what the jist of it, I believe it's fun to take apart a game and rearrange it's components for better control or something?

My friend who's into fighting game hardcore says it's fun seeing how deep a fighting system is.

I do believe hardcore gamers are still having fun, honestly.

Well that's fair enough in that case. I guess I've only seen the worst examples when it comes to really ''hardcore gamers''. The no life, jobless, fat, heavy pot smoking, excuse filled guy is something I've seen quite a bit around me.

The problem I have with your definition of an hardcore gamer is kind of... elitist to be quite honest.
In my eyes, if you are on this website, you are or at least was an hardcore gamer at some point.

Since my definitions of a hardcore game and gamer are the only right ones, I can and am obliged to continue applying them to every gamer out there. People should form a queue over there and one by one bring themselves and their gaming habits before me for judgement. This is to be repeated every year. Ten bucks per gamer, first time is 50% off.

I have the ability to detect a gamer's "aura", and with this talent it's pretty easy to distinguish which ones are hardcore, casual, and the like. For example if I listen closely I can hear if the aura is chirping and if those chirps come from chocobos, angry birds, or PewDiePie. Even worse than that are the ones that sing pop songs. The most fun aura I encounter is the one belonging to a Dwarf Fortress player. The guitar theme song is easy to make out, but the complex individual visualizations of the dwarves and their fortresses each player has are unique and interesting.

I'm currently in progress of getting my gamer scan to the lawbooks in the EU, so it can become a mandatory procedure in order to qualify for most jobs on the market.

Also this post is gold.

. . . I think this thread backfired on me a bit.
I have no way of defending my statements there, you got me.
Sorry, just suddenly remembered something.

 

[grassgremlin]

Snip for attention

I think some of us have been a bit harsh on you, if I came that way myself then I am sorry.
You don't have to take what we said to you too seriously though.

Making a clear definition of what is an hardcore gamer could be fair discussion, there's nothing wrong with that. I guess if you phrased yourself more gently and came off less elitist then I bet you would have had more reasonable replies.

Personally, and I'll be speaking for certain people here, I would prefer we discussed about playing games without having to refer ourselves with ''hardcore'' or ''casual'' gamer. We're people who play games. That's all there is to it.

Anyway man, chill

Oh, thnx.
I'll try. I'm not use to flubbing a thread like this nor was I expecting the response.
It was a unintended discussion for me. I flubbed up. I can try to change the topic up a bit.