"Hardcore" gamers are hipsters.

[Shadowsole]

I don't see the point of this. Perhaps you have some sort of point about people getting too worked up about the popularity of certain games but all this trying to label as "hipsters" or whatever just seems like schoolyard bullying.

I apologise. I mean it as more of a shock tatic to get people to enter the discution.
i don't mean it as an out right insult

 

[Shadowsole]

Not really, OP. Hardcore gamers do not sit around and claim that they 'heard of a game way before it was cool.' Hardcore gamers are the people who want a challenge and buy the games that give them one. They're also the long time gamers and buy generally everything good. They don't gain life points by hearing of games before other people, in fact, they generally want everybody to play their games, so they can be sequeled. If they were hipsters, they'd never leave the XBLA Indie section.

I'm not talking about each indivigual games.
I've seen that long time gamers tend to look done on the people who are new. People who found halo before doom.not every kid playing halo thinks doom is stupid. most don't know about it. gamers are angry because gaming is popular. thats what i've seen

 

[Dragonforce525]

Actually, you're right, I do feel as though games are my own little club house, but I see it as more of a town, I'd be perfectly happy if Nintendo stayed in their neighborhood, but like a virus Nintendo has infected every potentially good home with it's casual gamer nonsense, all games now feel like they have to cater for everyone, casual gamers and Nintendo have single handedly dumbed down the market, to the point where every potentially good game requires nothing more complex then one button to complete the game.

And if it seems like I'm hating on Nintendo... that's because I am, I hate what it's become and what it has done to games.

 

[Shadowsole]

Actually, you're right, I do feel as though games are my own little club house, but I see it as more of a town, I'd be perfectly happy if Nintendo stayed in their neighborhood, but like a virus Nintendo has infected every potentially good home with it's casual gamer nonsense, all games now feel like they have to cater for everyone, casual gamers and Nintendo have single handedly dumbed down the market, to the point where every potentially good game requires nothing more complex then one button to complete the game.

And if it seems like I'm hating on Nintendo... that's because I am, I hate what it's become and what it has done to games.

i have mixed feelings about you. your admitting what i'm saying is a problem but you are part of that same problem...
so... Hi?
thanks for having the balls to admit your hating?

 

[TheDist]

From where I sit "casual" gamer has gone through a few changes, quite quickly infact. They used to be that guy who had to work for 12 hours a day an only got 2-3 hours of game time, and now they have become the farmvill playing house wife types.

What I find most depressing is when I look back at how long ive been a gamer, which going by the average age of most people on here is longer than a lot of them have even been alive (uuhhg making myself feel old). I notice something I really don't want to see happen again. I belive somone said it already but it's the shovelware, not only is it shovelware but shovelware that wants you to do microtransactions, we can all see people like M$ pissing their pants in glee at such a prospect, as I look on and hope we don't see another 1983.


Edit: Oh flamebait time! I thought the hipsers were the mac buyers ^^

 

[CheckD3]

A hardcore title isn't a game where big manly, muscle clad men run around punching things with their prostates, it's a game that has depth and complexities. It has a deep understanding of how it runs and even if it lacks a story, as Katamari does, it still has the complexity in gameplay innovations and can be held up to a movie as a piece of art. Being a good or bad game doesn't define if it can be art, because there are shitty movies that are art, why can't bad games be.

The problem is the casual game because what it is, is usually a single idea stretched out. It's like taking a single idea from a full game, cutting it out, and reselling it as a full game, stretching what would take normally an hour at most to complete and padding it out so it reaches the repetitive mark so much you could play for months and still get no where. It's like running on a treadmill, sure it's nice, but at the end of the run you're back where you started. Sure you got in the exercise and enjoyed the workout, but if you ran a mile on a treadmill, you aren't a mile away, you didn't go off and see a mile worth of journey, you saw the same thing for a mile.

 

[Vault101]

well.....I think there will alwyas be a market for the big budget mature shooting spectatular...thing

I mean theres a reason people like thease games

as for Nintendo, I dont know, from what I can see they used to be inovative and a name to be proud of in gaming

but what do they do now? pander to nostalga and have a platform that thrives on shovellware

ok so they ARNT targeted towards me anymore so I cant exactlaly complain

 

[Shadowsole]

From where I sit "casual" gamer has gone through a few changes, quite quickly infact. They used to be that guy who had to work for 12 hours a day an only got 2-3 hours of game time, and now they have become the farmvill playing house wife types.

What I find most depressing is when I look back at how long ive been a gamer, which going by the average age of most people on here is longer than a lot of them have even been alive (uuhhg making myself feel old). I notice something I really don't want to see happen again. I belive somone said it already but it's the shovelware, not only is it shovelware but shovelware that wants you to do microtransactions, we can all see people like M$ pissing their pants in glee at such a prospect, as I look on and hope we don't see another 1983.

I'm not entirely sure of the point your making but even though the crash was 10 years before i was born I don't want it to happen again. But raging at people because they like casual games is illogical. Really i'd just like to read the escapist and not feel marginalised. not every casual gamer buys shovelware. thats what i want everyone to see

 

[Vault101]

A hardcore title isn't a game where big manly, muscle clad men run around punching things with their prostates, it's a game that has depth and complexities. It has a deep understanding of how it runs and even if it lacks a story, as Katamari does, it still has the complexity in gameplay innovations and can be held up to a movie as a piece of art. Being a good or bad game doesn't define if it can be art, because there are shitty movies that are art, why can't bad games be.

The problem is the casual game because what it is, is usually a single idea stretched out. It's like taking a single idea from a full game, cutting it out, and reselling it as a full game, stretching what would take normally an hour at most to complete and padding it out so it reaches the repetitive mark so much you could play for months and still get no where. It's like running on a treadmill, sure it's nice, but at the end of the run you're back where you started. Sure you got in the exercise and enjoyed the workout, but if you ran a mile on a treadmill, you aren't a mile away, you didn't go off and see a mile worth of journey, you saw the same thing for a mile.

well said

I think back in the day witht the whole "OMG casual gaming is killing hardcore!!" thing there was the common criticizm

"If you dont like Casual games and call yourself hardcore then your just a big dumb idiot hooked on testosterone with your guns and violence and tits!"

which isnt true at all, I want story, I want adventuer I want to give a crap about whats going on[/B] I dont play games just to kill time or for the novelty I can go do somthing else

thats why I dont like mario who wants to play the same game over and over again?

 

[benvorbeck]

Not really, OP. Hardcore gamers do not sit around and claim that they 'heard of a game way before it was cool.' Hardcore gamers are the people who want a challenge and buy the games that give them one. They're also the long time gamers and buy generally everything good. They don't gain life points by hearing of games before other people, in fact, they generally want everybody to play their games, so they can be sequeled. If they were hipsters, they'd never leave the XBLA Indie section.

AMEN!
very good definition of a hardcore gamer

 

[StormShaun]

Not really, OP. Hardcore gamers do not sit around and claim that they 'heard of a game way before it was cool.' Hardcore gamers are the people who want a challenge and buy the games that give them one. They're also the long time gamers and buy generally everything good. They don't gain life points by hearing of games before other people, in fact, they generally want everybody to play their games, so they can be sequeled. If they were hipsters, they'd never leave the XBLA Indie section.

AMEN!
very good definition of a hardcore gamer

Agreed good sir...

 

[Shadowsole]

thats why I dont like mario who wants to play the same game over and over again?

at least 50% of the games i play are about the adventure.
But i also play repetive games.

I sunk heps of time into dragon age origins yet sometimes i want to teach a virtual dog to sit.

Yet somehow i'm dystroing the industry

In my perfect world people would just shut up about things they don't like.

 

[TheDist]

From where I sit "casual" gamer has gone through a few changes, quite quickly infact. They used to be that guy who had to work for 12 hours a day an only got 2-3 hours of game time, and now they have become the farmvill playing house wife types.

What I find most depressing is when I look back at how long ive been a gamer, which going by the average age of most people on here is longer than a lot of them have even been alive (uuhhg making myself feel old). I notice something I really don't want to see happen again. I belive somone said it already but it's the shovelware, not only is it shovelware but shovelware that wants you to do microtransactions, we can all see people like M$ pissing their pants in glee at such a prospect, as I look on and hope we don't see another 1983.

I'm not entirely sure of the point your making but even though the crash was 10 years before i was born I don't want it to happen again. But raging at people because they like casual games is illogical. Really i'd just like to read the escapist and not feel marginalised. not every casual gamer buys shovelware. thats what i want everyone to see

The point being made is not at you who might enjoy "casual" gaming however you wish to define it these days. It is at the companies that are now making a new type of shovelware. You can see the big companies starting to look at this kinda thing, where they wanna crank out as much of this specific shovelware as they can.

Let me explain what about that I see as being a risk. It is the farmvill type game if you like, with an addictive hook that has no innovation no care about the people playing, only that the people playing do as many microtransations as possible.

I find the defence of such a system to be objectionable, as the type of game it breeds is only going to hurt us all as gamers in the end. They want your money, they want as much as they can get for the lowest cost and time on their part. When this style seeps into the "hardcore" games (as indeed some may say it has already) what can the end result be? games cranked out within a year, flooding the market for every penny they can.

I just don't want to see another crash, and the sad thing is while it might not go down this way I can still see the way it very easily could.

 

[ten.to.ten]

People who look down on you if you don't love Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami and Viewtiful Joe are hipsters.

Hardcore gamers can similarly be elitists, but it's not quite the same thing.

 

[Jamous]

I hope that I don't get suspended again for this.

Sir, screw you and the horse you rode in on, the two don't compare in the slightest, the reason that hardcore gamers like myself take issue with the prevalence and popularirity of casual games has nothing to do with gaming no longer being an exclusive club and everything to do with it becoming the (for lack of a better analogy) face of gaming.

We desire so much for gaming to be recognised as an artform, and method of storytelling that when we see a game we truely love, a game that we can all point to and declare "That game made me feel." being ground in to the dirt by a game that was made to trick people in to spending money...
Well we get upset.

Now granted we often laude obscure games, but that is because more often than not they fall beneath the radar and we wish to seek out hidden ems and bring them in to the light.

But it's always the simple games, the "safe" games the ones that don't innovate or try something new that get all the attention, with the way things are is it any wonmder we fear for the industry?
When any firm at any moment could look at their miserble profit margin for their latest relief and simply say "fuck it, from now on we make only standard military shooters!", or in a less likely but still terrifying scenario "Fuck it, it's facebook games for us from now on.", is it any wonder we freak out and bash casual gamers as a sign of the coming apocolypse?
Especially as more and more games are being simplified to appeal to them.

It's not that we hate casual games as such, it's that we fear what they mean for the industry.

Though there are of corse hipsters in the mix, that goes without saying, and they're no good for the industry either.

Ok, you're suspended atm so you prolly won't get this for a while if at all, but I must say thank you for this. It's, in my honest opinion, a very well presented answer to the issue of "Hardcore Vs. Casual Gaming". Not entirely sure about the need for a screw you and the horse you rode in on, though.
Anyways, aside from a reply to the OP that thoroughly agrees with This ^, I have to say that my problem with casual gaming is that, stereotypically, a casual gamer will limit themselves to casual games, not dabbling and not experiencing some of the more extensive, better told, and, to be honest, more FUN games out there. I have an issue with the implications of casual gaming 'trapping' people, as it were, into casual games. I get that this isn't always the case seeing as I'm talking about the stereotypes atm. I think this makes me more of a snob than a hipster.

 

[Shadowsole]

From where I sit "casual" gamer has gone through a few changes, quite quickly infact. They used to be that guy who had to work for 12 hours a day an only got 2-3 hours of game time, and now they have become the farmvill playing house wife types.

What I find most depressing is when I look back at how long ive been a gamer, which going by the average age of most people on here is longer than a lot of them have even been alive (uuhhg making myself feel old). I notice something I really don't want to see happen again. I belive somone said it already but it's the shovelware, not only is it shovelware but shovelware that wants you to do microtransactions, we can all see people like M$ pissing their pants in glee at such a prospect, as I look on and hope we don't see another 1983.

I'm not entirely sure of the point your making but even though the crash was 10 years before i was born I don't want it to happen again. But raging at people because they like casual games is illogical. Really i'd just like to read the escapist and not feel marginalised. not every casual gamer buys shovelware. thats what i want everyone to see

The point being made is not at you who might enjoy "casual" gaming however you wish to define it these days. It is at the companies that are now making a new type of shovelware. You can see the big companies starting to look at this kinda thing, where they wanna crank out as much of this specific shovelware as they can.

Let me explain what about that I see as being a risk. It is the farmvill type game if you like, with an addictive hook that has no innovation no care about the people playing, only that the people playing do as many microtransations as possible.

I find the defence of such a system to be objectionable, as the type of game it breeds is only going to hurt us all as gamers in the end. They want your money, they want as much as they can get for the lowest cost and time on their part. When this style seeps into the "hardcore" games (as indeed some may say it has already) what can the end result be? games cranked out within a year, flooding the market for every penny they can.

I just don't want to see another crash, and the sad thing is while it might not go down this way I can still see the way it very easily could.

I'm agreeing with you. But the hate of the developers who make shovelware gets put on 'casual' gamers. I don't want another crash I just don't want to be hated

 

[Vault101]

thats why I dont like mario who wants to play the same game over and over again?

at least 50% of the games i play are about the adventure.
But i also play repetive games.

I sunk heps of time into dragon age origins yet sometimes i want to teach a virtual dog to sit.

Yet somehow i'm dystroing the industry

In my perfect world people would just shut up about things they don't like.

But then the internet would very rather empty.....

but yeah sometimes that would be nice

 

[TheDist]

*snip*

I'm agreeing with you. But the hate of the developers who make shovelware gets put on 'casual' gamers. I don't want another crash I just don't want to be hated

Ah I see, well yeah fair enough. It isn't the people that I dislike, it is just the greedy bastards who don't care what they damage to make their money. I do wish fewer people would buy their shovelware, then claim it to be the greatest thing ever,

Though i also see how pointless that is, as it brings us to something that all humans like to do. Group up, to become "us and them" when one side does it so does the other. Thats where the casual and hardcore sit right now, both sat there hating each other for no real reason, since when you ask any of them to define their group they never can agree.

The issue we should have in my opinion, as "gamers" is the quality of our products.

 

[Vankraken]

I think many "hardcore" gamers dislike casual games because they sacrifice gameplay to dumb it down and typiclly put minimal effort into the product (aka shovelware). Some are elitist who feel that non AAA games are for the casuals or children but i think thats a smaller (yet more vocal) minority than the larger majority of gamers who enjoy content and quality.