"Hardcore"
- Thread starter chinangel
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If you don't own either a flight yoke, rudder pedals, and instrument panels or a racing seat, wheel, pedals (with clutch) and wrap around monitor set up you aren't hardcore. Oh and anyone playing games for anything other than fun isn't hardcore, they're an idiot. Yes even professional e-sports players. Having no fun playing games? Don't do it, games are optional.
Someone that takes their hobby more seriously then casuals but also has more fun with it as well...
Possibly? XD
Possibly? XD
It's beautifully pithy, but as someone who has foresaken numerous vital domestic duties for "one more game of Bejewelled", I'm not sure it's TOTALLY accurateChampion360 said:
I swim in both pools: casual is "pick up and play" where hardcore is "long learning curve". Both types work to different sets of rules and provide different experiences- one is about instant gratification, the other is a deeper, more involving experience.
I see Core and Hardcore as different things. Most of the people here are talking of Hardcore how I would describe Core Gamers.
Core gamers are people who are quite heavily invested in video games, be it their library of games, accessories for games, knowledge of games and/or years spent on games. We tend to be able to appreciate a wide variety of games even if we tend to not particularly enjoy that genre.
Casual gamers are people new to gaming (regardless of size of library) or just play video games in passing. Some may become core gamers in the future, others become internet trolls, most just stay casuals. [from this point forward I will refer to Troll/casuals as "casuals" since the other two really do not apply. Just understand that when i say "casuals" I am not against casuals, being a casual gamer is fine.]
Hardcore is the demographic that designers and publishers are trying to target within the core gamer audience with the idea that a game will sell if you telling the core gamers, "Yeah, you might be core, but this is HARDCORE!" Most core gamers don't buy into the idea, but still see the game as fun.
However many casual gamers will see it as an easy ticket into being accepted as a core gamer. Because these casuals try to force their coreness onto the core gaming community by proclaiming how awesome their game is, we begin to look down on that particular game.
Take Halo for example. When Halo was first around, the multiplayer is best summed up as Goldeneye64's multiplayer on crack. Because Halo was so awesome at multiplayer the casuals joined in; no problem with that. The problem came when the casuals began to boast about their Haloness and how other games suck. You see, we weren't against Halo; core gamers love themselves some Halo. We were against the Halo boasting from the casuals. In time that hate against the Halo boasting became a hate towards Halo. The Casuals were missing the point: Halo is a good game and really fun, but it is one of many good games that are really fun.
Not all of this is the fault of developers even though they make games that target the "hardcore". a big part of the problem is the core gamers' desire to rank stuff. Look at "Best Final Fantasy" and "Best Legend of Zelda" For the longest time those were held by FF7 and Ocarina. Casuals heard this and saw another easy pass into the core gaming club and said, "All other Final Fantasy/Zelda games suck." Again, they were missing the point. Core gamers were looking story, characters, gameplay, innovation, music, flow. That's what we always look at. For the casuals, it felt like their thought process was, "FF7 is awesome... Why is FF7 awesome? Cloud is a badass. CLOUD DESERVES TO BE IN EVERYTHING!" For Ocarina, for many people it was just their first Zelda game, and if you're a fan of Zelda, you know you just fall in love with your first Zelda game; it is kinda irrational. there is nothing really to say other than, "IT IS OCARINA THEREFORE IT IS THE BEST"
Halo, FF7 and Ocarina had technically become the games that "hardcore" gamers play.
Then the backlash happens. core fans of FF7 and Ocarina had 3 options: pick a previous game to differentiate themselves from the casuals, pick a more recent game to differentiate themselves from the casuals (picking a game kinda helps determine their age, but not a perfect system. older (SNES) gamers tend to pick 6 (because it was 3), younger (PS1) gamers tend to pick 8. Again, not a perfect system), or remain dedicated fans and have a logical argument as to why they like the game in a word file ready to copy paste so other core gamers know that they aren't casuals. Same with Zelda: some went Link to the Past, other went Wind Waker, some stayed Ocarina/Majora.
In the cases where the casuals cannot grasp onto anything the core gamers like about a game (The game is too weird) or that they cannot beat the game (it is too hard); they just say the game sucks.
Casuals also tend to like Irate Gamer, but that is a different topic.
Well, I hoped you enjoyed my personal view on the matter. Please don't hit the quote button expecting me to respond, because I really don't feel like it. this is pretty much all I have to say on the subject.
Core gamers are people who are quite heavily invested in video games, be it their library of games, accessories for games, knowledge of games and/or years spent on games. We tend to be able to appreciate a wide variety of games even if we tend to not particularly enjoy that genre.
Casual gamers are people new to gaming (regardless of size of library) or just play video games in passing. Some may become core gamers in the future, others become internet trolls, most just stay casuals. [from this point forward I will refer to Troll/casuals as "casuals" since the other two really do not apply. Just understand that when i say "casuals" I am not against casuals, being a casual gamer is fine.]
Hardcore is the demographic that designers and publishers are trying to target within the core gamer audience with the idea that a game will sell if you telling the core gamers, "Yeah, you might be core, but this is HARDCORE!" Most core gamers don't buy into the idea, but still see the game as fun.
However many casual gamers will see it as an easy ticket into being accepted as a core gamer. Because these casuals try to force their coreness onto the core gaming community by proclaiming how awesome their game is, we begin to look down on that particular game.
Take Halo for example. When Halo was first around, the multiplayer is best summed up as Goldeneye64's multiplayer on crack. Because Halo was so awesome at multiplayer the casuals joined in; no problem with that. The problem came when the casuals began to boast about their Haloness and how other games suck. You see, we weren't against Halo; core gamers love themselves some Halo. We were against the Halo boasting from the casuals. In time that hate against the Halo boasting became a hate towards Halo. The Casuals were missing the point: Halo is a good game and really fun, but it is one of many good games that are really fun.
Not all of this is the fault of developers even though they make games that target the "hardcore". a big part of the problem is the core gamers' desire to rank stuff. Look at "Best Final Fantasy" and "Best Legend of Zelda" For the longest time those were held by FF7 and Ocarina. Casuals heard this and saw another easy pass into the core gaming club and said, "All other Final Fantasy/Zelda games suck." Again, they were missing the point. Core gamers were looking story, characters, gameplay, innovation, music, flow. That's what we always look at. For the casuals, it felt like their thought process was, "FF7 is awesome... Why is FF7 awesome? Cloud is a badass. CLOUD DESERVES TO BE IN EVERYTHING!" For Ocarina, for many people it was just their first Zelda game, and if you're a fan of Zelda, you know you just fall in love with your first Zelda game; it is kinda irrational. there is nothing really to say other than, "IT IS OCARINA THEREFORE IT IS THE BEST"
Halo, FF7 and Ocarina had technically become the games that "hardcore" gamers play.
Then the backlash happens. core fans of FF7 and Ocarina had 3 options: pick a previous game to differentiate themselves from the casuals, pick a more recent game to differentiate themselves from the casuals (picking a game kinda helps determine their age, but not a perfect system. older (SNES) gamers tend to pick 6 (because it was 3), younger (PS1) gamers tend to pick 8. Again, not a perfect system), or remain dedicated fans and have a logical argument as to why they like the game in a word file ready to copy paste so other core gamers know that they aren't casuals. Same with Zelda: some went Link to the Past, other went Wind Waker, some stayed Ocarina/Majora.
In the cases where the casuals cannot grasp onto anything the core gamers like about a game (The game is too weird) or that they cannot beat the game (it is too hard); they just say the game sucks.
Casuals also tend to like Irate Gamer, but that is a different topic.
Well, I hoped you enjoyed my personal view on the matter. Please don't hit the quote button expecting me to respond, because I really don't feel like it. this is pretty much all I have to say on the subject.
It's a term that has so many different meanings to so many different people so that it is worthless.
Primarily, I see it as a term self-righteous douchehats use to put others down so that they're distracted from how awful they are themselves.
Primarily, I see it as a term self-righteous douchehats use to put others down so that they're distracted from how awful they are themselves.
A hardcore gamer is someone who invest lots of time and money into gaming. That's it. Unfortunately the elitists you?re talking about have given the term a bad name. By its own right, it?s innocuous. Let's be clear about this, saying you?re a hardcore gamer is NOT the same thing as saying "I'm better than other because I play games more than they do" it?s just saying you like games a lot. There is NOT any value judgment inherent in the term.
It may have many different meanings to different people but it has only one actual meaning in the English language as it currently exits. Someone who is "hardcore" about an activity is something who really involves themselves in the activity. There's no room for debate about this. Just take the word hardcore as it's defined and apply it to gaming. Why people think the term is hard to define utterly baffles me.Necromancer Jim said:
Jesus Escapist forumites, this is a site dedicated to gaming and NO ONE knows what it means?
Hardcore refers to people who take their game/genre seriously. I played hardcore dota for about 4 years; meaning that I was in a team and we played tournaments, practiced, studied the game and generally understood the core dynamics of the game; we won mostly but could never beat that darned Asian team.
It means having set goals and going for them in a competitive environment. Starting a 2v2 Starcraft team with the goal to reach Platinum, GOING for it and achieving it. Think about it in terms of sports for example; the Saturday afternoon social tennis player as opposed to the guy who's on the court every day and playing national/international tournaments. It doesn't necessarily mean going professional it just means taking it seriously with some success.
The reason why there's confusion about this and why I don't actually like identifying with the term "hardcore" is because there are so many kiddies on the internet who use the word with little understanding or context; then you read some wanker claiming he's hardcore but he's actually just a wanker. In my experience actual "hardcore" people don't really walk around advertising the fact because to get to the point where you're playing high level competition mostly means you're someone with some kind of sportman's ethic. That means you're more concerned with the game than with your ego.
So what's it mean when people moan about developers raping the hardcore? It means that a developer Fs up an element which simplifies the game causing a much more shallow dynamic; the game becomes easier to play but loses alot of depth in the mechanics; thus negating some of the skill factor in lue of an easier game.
Casual refers to someone who just wants to enjoy the game and doesn't really care about any specific outcomes.
Hardcore refers to people who take their game/genre seriously. I played hardcore dota for about 4 years; meaning that I was in a team and we played tournaments, practiced, studied the game and generally understood the core dynamics of the game; we won mostly but could never beat that darned Asian team.
It means having set goals and going for them in a competitive environment. Starting a 2v2 Starcraft team with the goal to reach Platinum, GOING for it and achieving it. Think about it in terms of sports for example; the Saturday afternoon social tennis player as opposed to the guy who's on the court every day and playing national/international tournaments. It doesn't necessarily mean going professional it just means taking it seriously with some success.
The reason why there's confusion about this and why I don't actually like identifying with the term "hardcore" is because there are so many kiddies on the internet who use the word with little understanding or context; then you read some wanker claiming he's hardcore but he's actually just a wanker. In my experience actual "hardcore" people don't really walk around advertising the fact because to get to the point where you're playing high level competition mostly means you're someone with some kind of sportman's ethic. That means you're more concerned with the game than with your ego.
So what's it mean when people moan about developers raping the hardcore? It means that a developer Fs up an element which simplifies the game causing a much more shallow dynamic; the game becomes easier to play but loses alot of depth in the mechanics; thus negating some of the skill factor in lue of an easier game.
Casual refers to someone who just wants to enjoy the game and doesn't really care about any specific outcomes.
Hardcore checklist. without googleing or going to wiki;
Do you know who Manuel Calavera is?
Do you know who George Stobbartt - (that's two b's and two t's) - is?
Can you name the 4 playable characters from Bare Knuckle 2?
Richard Jacques is famous for his what?
Did you own a Dreamcast and more than 20 games for it?
Did you own a Sega Saturn and ANY games for it?
What animal is Ecco.
What - in gaming - is the 'Holy Trinity'?
"Thats 1, Thats 2..Thats 3.....Thats 4, THATS 5 MUTHER F**KERS" is a quote from which modern game series?
Who is Yuji Naka?
Gordon Freemans middle name is what?
if you know all 11 of these you are undoubtably a hardcore gaming enthusy..and are defo over 25.
7/11 and you're still hardcore, but don't take an active interest all facets of the gaming spectrum.
3-5/11. pretty hardcore, but "young hardcore" not "oldskool hardcore" but hardcore nonetheless.
And if you couldn't answer any of these you MAY play alot of current games, but that doesn't make you hardcore.
Do you know who Manuel Calavera is?
Do you know who George Stobbartt - (that's two b's and two t's) - is?
Can you name the 4 playable characters from Bare Knuckle 2?
Richard Jacques is famous for his what?
Did you own a Dreamcast and more than 20 games for it?
Did you own a Sega Saturn and ANY games for it?
What animal is Ecco.
What - in gaming - is the 'Holy Trinity'?
"Thats 1, Thats 2..Thats 3.....Thats 4, THATS 5 MUTHER F**KERS" is a quote from which modern game series?
Who is Yuji Naka?
Gordon Freemans middle name is what?
if you know all 11 of these you are undoubtably a hardcore gaming enthusy..and are defo over 25.
7/11 and you're still hardcore, but don't take an active interest all facets of the gaming spectrum.
3-5/11. pretty hardcore, but "young hardcore" not "oldskool hardcore" but hardcore nonetheless.
And if you couldn't answer any of these you MAY play alot of current games, but that doesn't make you hardcore.
CORE vs CASUAL
That's what's the discussion is usually about. Hardcore is not core.
A core gamer is almost everyone here on the Escapist.
So much interest we have in games, that we even waste our time chatting about them on these boards.
Casuals don't have much interest in gaming, but may still occasionally play a few games. Typically they play casual games like the Sims and Bejewelled, or the most popular sports games and shooters, like Madden and COD.
Hardcore players are very, very good at one or more hardcore games.
A hardcore Starcraft player is the best example. You can be hardcore for one game, while at the same time being a casual gamer, or never in your life play any other game than Starcraft.
That's what's the discussion is usually about. Hardcore is not core.
A core gamer is almost everyone here on the Escapist.
So much interest we have in games, that we even waste our time chatting about them on these boards.
Casuals don't have much interest in gaming, but may still occasionally play a few games. Typically they play casual games like the Sims and Bejewelled, or the most popular sports games and shooters, like Madden and COD.
Hardcore players are very, very good at one or more hardcore games.
A hardcore Starcraft player is the best example. You can be hardcore for one game, while at the same time being a casual gamer, or never in your life play any other game than Starcraft.
To my personal understanding, Casual merely refers to the type of Player who will jump into any Game which has a difficulty curve from anywhere between "baby can do it" to "satan made it" and just plays a few Hours for his/her Enjoyment of the title.
A Hardcore Player on the other hand does the same thing, but with a totally different mindset. The Fun comes out of the challenge of it, while both types would have fun playing it, the hardcore gamer is more serious towards it, playing for the accomplishment of "having beaten it" as it were, rather than just to have fun in itself.
Or in short, a Casual Player is someone who just plays and has fun while doing so. The Hardcore Player has fun by setting personal objectives, winning this level in as short a time as possible, beating this enemy quickly, doing a headshot in that round of CS, and ultimately succeeding in those personal objectives which creates the sense of Pride. Mere enjoyment of the Game itself is still there, but a bit secondary.
At least thats how i see it.
A Hardcore Player on the other hand does the same thing, but with a totally different mindset. The Fun comes out of the challenge of it, while both types would have fun playing it, the hardcore gamer is more serious towards it, playing for the accomplishment of "having beaten it" as it were, rather than just to have fun in itself.
Or in short, a Casual Player is someone who just plays and has fun while doing so. The Hardcore Player has fun by setting personal objectives, winning this level in as short a time as possible, beating this enemy quickly, doing a headshot in that round of CS, and ultimately succeeding in those personal objectives which creates the sense of Pride. Mere enjoyment of the Game itself is still there, but a bit secondary.
At least thats how i see it.
I don't really like the term "hardcore", or "core" for that matter, but I am not the same as someone who plays only/mostly social games or casual games. I never play social games and very, very rarely play casual games instead spending my gaming time playing almost everything else - mostly on the 360.
I still feel like there should be some definition between gamer types but I have no idea what that should be.
I still feel like there should be some definition between gamer types but I have no idea what that should be.
A hardcore gamer is simply a gamer who plays hardcore games.chinangel said:
What is a hardcore game? well it is simply a game aimed at veteran gamers, that does not pander to new gamers or casual gamers. A game that it unashamedly complex and has deep mechanics that a new player or casual player would probably find overwhelming or frustrating.
We should care about it because these "hardcore" games are the pinnacle of gameplay experience, they are the best that gaming has to offer.
It basically comes down to the the connoisseur effect [http://xkcd.com/915/], spend enough time with a subject and you will care about the complexities of it as well. Hardcore gamers are basically connoisseurs who don't like the fact that the unwashed masses are pouring vimto into the vintage claret.
Yeah, that is a sign of a hardcore gamer.. they're willing to push though the initial learning curve (even if that is 50 hours) because they know its worth it and they will get back more than they put in... its this quality that makes games like X3 and EU3 playable.internetzealot1 said:
Quoted for truth.Champion360 said: